MovieChat Forums > The Island (2005) Discussion > did the director simply FORGET a critica...

did the director simply FORGET a critical plot point?


The scientist told the director that the clones were building up exactly the same memories as the donors, even though they had no physical contact.

Why didn't they push this idea as a scientific verification that god exists....the clones are growing SOULS, but not just any soul, the same soul as the donor in every way which means there may be 2 identical physical bodies but only one soul.

That would have been intriguing, but instead we get car chases. I swear the script must have been approved by 10 year old boys.

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[deleted]

Absolutely baffling.

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Actually the OP makes an interesting point. How did they explain why the clones were getting the memories of their originals? What could have been a really interesting story was reduced to being just another chase film.

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Because they were the exact replica of their 'sponsor', having a 'soul' doesn't mean you make memories or share memories. Memories are stored in the brain.

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The movie was dealing with the controversial theory of genetic memory.

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The movie was dealing with the controversial theory of genetic memory.

Agreed. They were not implicating the existence of God or souls. Simply the theory that memories can be genetically passed on.

Sheesh. Religious people see God in everything.






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I am actually religious.

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Well, nobody's perfect.

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That's a definition of God.

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That's a definition of God.




How so?






My Vote history: http://www.imdb.com/user/ur1914996/ratings

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If one believes that God is the creator, then he is in everything.

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Isn't that "pantheism"? (which is a heresy in the Catholic Church)

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[deleted]

[The scientist told the director that the clones were building up exactly the same memories as the donors . . . Why didn't they push this idea]

They probably didn’t push the idea because it’s completely ridiculous. Personal memories aren’t stored in one’s genetic code; they’re stored chemically in one’s brain. Creating a genetic clone won’t replicate memories from the donor.

If they made an exact physical and chemical copy of the donors brain then, sure, there might be an argument for the retention of memory. However, if it’s possible to exactly replicate an organ then it defeats the premise of the film. Why do you need to grow and feed a clone for years when you could simply fabricate a kidney on demand?

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the only excuse i can see for doing the entire body is twofold:

1. even if making specific organs were possible, they may take time to grow and these clones were there for emergency situations. like the mom who got in a car accident, she only had a couple of days to replace several organs, growing them individually might take months

2. these give the buyers a full body backup for every possible organ/limb, not just the main ones. an actor gets a facial burn? rip new face off clone, etc. the idea here (as a buyer) is a fully body backup, not just a single organ. notice how often the clones were referred to as insurance policies


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as for why they were getting memories; i wouldn't suggest god or a soul in this equation either. notice that only specific batches were having the problem; one could imply that those batches used as you suggested: chemical brain copies, or some other semi-experimental method that is more than just the clone process

since its also implied that previous batches had growth issues and even that educating them had become the solution, its possible that other aspects of their brain had been experimented on like this to solve the issue

i dont think they had a real solution to the problem from a writing perspective so they glossed over it; the main focus they wanted to hit on was the ethics of cloning overall, though they did lose some of that focus by turning it into a chase film

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I'm Roman Catholic;

Same body doesn't mean same soul. Every living animal has it's own God-given soul, even if the animal wasn't created through live-birth or egg, but rather though cloning.

The clones are their own people, which means they have their own souls.

When the two Lincolns are fighting over who's the real Tom Lincoln, it's not a man fighting himself, it's two identical individuals fighting each other.

Still on the subject of souls, the clone; Lincoln-Six-Echo is a nice guy, he'll probably go to Heaven when he dies, as where Tom Lincoln the live-birth created human, he was a greedy jack*beep* bastard, there's no doubt when he was shot, he went to Hell. Just because one's a clone of the other, that doesn't mean their souls are connected to each other, their souls are as separated from each other as your soul is from my soul, or any other of the seven billion human souls on this planet or any other of the billions of other animals souls on this planet . . . or any of the trillions of souls of extraterrestrials that possibly exist throughout the universe . . .

You can clone people, you can't clone souls, the clones have their own God-given souls.

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Same concept with Jurassic Park. You can clone the dinosaurs, but the dinosaurs they're cloned from, their souls and consciousness still remains in Heaven as they have been for the past 65 millions years.

You can clone President Lincoln, but his souls and consciousness still remains in Heaven.

You can clone Adolf Hitler, but his souls and consciousness still remains in Hell.

Cloning someone deceased will not pull decease's soul and consciousness out of Heaven or Hell.

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The movie "never let me go" based on a book, what this movie was based on I think, does tackle the question of souls.

In Catholic school it was always taught that animals don't have souls. So, the dinasours would not be in heaven. I disagree and think that animals do. Also, the new Pope has brought up this issue about animals and souls, and I believe he said that they do have them.

Who knows?



Brawndo!! The Thirst Mutilator: It's got what plants crave!

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So because the Pope says so it is so?

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Yeah!

You got a problem with that?


Brawndo!! The Thirst Mutilator: It's got what plants crave!

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Catholic church lies to you EXACTLY like the bad guy tell the people some day they will go to the Island

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Catholic church lies to you EXACTLY like the bad guy tell the people some day they will go to the Island

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Its impossible that the clones would have the same memories as their progenitors. They live separate lives. I love the movie but that's pure fantasy.

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the movie never once mention souls. souls do not exist. The only time god is mentioned is as either a joke or an insult to the doctor.

No, souls are not intriguing.

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Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

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souls do not exist.
That is your opinion! You just can't stand people believing in God, can you? Spouting your opinions/beliefs everywhere doesn't make it so.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

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No, thats an actual fact of life. People believing in god is just being wilfully ignorant. Its not so much that i cant stand them and more that i dont want to live in a world full of morons.

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Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

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No, thats an actual fact of life.
Yeah? Facts require proof so prove it.
People believing in god is just being wilfully ignorant.
Another of your opinions. There are brilliant people that make you look like a primate who believe in God and to call them "willfully ignorant" is absurd. You're either (worst case) a hateful, bigot or you're being intellectually dishonest as it's impossible for you to state this as a fact. OR you're just WAY too narrow minded to consider something outside of your mental comfort zone.
Its not so much that i cant stand them and more that i dont want to live in a world full of morons.
I hate to break this to you but you there are morons everywhere and geniuses everywhere, that compared to them, you're the moron. Making a statement that you are somehow above anyone with different beliefs and that you are somehow in a position to judge, firmly confirms it.

You have every right to your beliefs and I would never state that because of them, you are a moron, willfully ignorant or assert that your beliefs are categorically wrong. Maybe you should have a little respect.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

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Yeah? Facts require proof so prove it.

Despite numerous people looking for it, there isnt a single piece of evidence proving existence of souls. If you make a statement that they exist, you have to prove their existence. Until that time lack of their existence is a fact.

Another of your opinions. There are brilliant people that make you look like a primate who believe in God and to call them "willfully ignorant" is absurd. You're either (worst case) a hateful, bigot or you're being intellectually dishonest as it's impossible for you to state this as a fact. OR you're just WAY too narrow minded to consider something outside of your mental comfort zone.

Correct, that one is an opinion. They may not be wilfully ignorant, just ignorant and not know it. Believing in imaginary friends is ignorance however and that is not an opinion.

A person can be ignorant in some subjects and smart in other subjects. I am wilfully ignorant when it comes to fashion, but that does not make me worse at my job. It seems that you dont even know what being ignorant is.

I hate to break this to you but you there are morons everywhere and geniuses everywhere, that compared to them, you're the moron. Making a statement that you are somehow above anyone with different beliefs and that you are somehow in a position to judge, firmly confirms it.

If they believe in imaginary beings then yes, i am above them in regards to sanity. And yes, there are geniuses that are not fully mentally sound. thats hardly news.

You have every right to your beliefs and I would never state that because of them, you are a moron, willfully ignorant or assert that your beliefs are categorically wrong. Maybe you should have a little respect.

Respect has to be earned.

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Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

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Wow!! I thought you'd have the class to let it go but I guess not. 😫

There's so much wrong with what you wrote. I'll make one attempt to civilly address this.

Despite numerous people looking for it, there isnt a single piece of evidence proving existence of souls. If you make a statement that they exist, you have to prove their existence. Until that time lack of their existence is a fact.
First, I didn't make a statement like that so . Second, YOU stated that it is a fact that the soul doesn't exist. Proof is required when stating something is a fact. 500 years ago, there was no proof that diseases were caused by bacteria but the were. Stating that they were not, thus was not a "fact".

It seems that you dont even know what being ignorant is
Oh for goodness sake, please!! You judge people of faith as being ignorant but they judge YOU as being ignorant. Just because you think you are qualified to pass judgement, doesn't make it so.

If they believe in imaginary beings then yes, i am above them in regards to sanity. And yes, there are geniuses that are not fully mentally sound. thats hardly news.
Imaginary beings according to one (you) who has NO qualifications to make such a proclamation (opinion once again). Sorry but you are not omniscient or right about everything you believe you are right about and your views/opinions are not infallible. I would hope you are broad minded enough to acknowledge this. ALSO, how do you know that you are "sane"?

Respect has to be earned.
This statement alone made me take pause in even responding. BASIC human respect does not have to be earned. If you believe that does, try going out in public and disrespecting everyone who hasn't "earned" your respect and see how fast you end up in the hospital, jail, or the morgue.




I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

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Well at least you are being civil, which is more than most people on this board, so thats some respect earned right there.

First, I didn't make a statement like that so . Second, YOU stated that it is a fact that the soul doesn't exist. Proof is required when stating something is a fact. 500 years ago, there was no proof that diseases were caused by bacteria but the were. Stating that they were not, thus was not a "fact".

You stated i was wrong in saying they do not exist. The only way this to be true is if you claim that they exist. So please prove your statement that they exist.

As far as them not existing goes, Souls as described in religiuos and spiritual texts were proven to not exist. Many attempts to find a soul was tried, including the famous 21 gram experiment, but none were sucesful. If you look for your keys on the table and there is nothing on the table its quite logical to conclude there are no keys on the table. So unless you are bringing some revolutionary proof of souls existence, no, they dont exist.

Oh for goodness sake, please!! You judge people of faith as being ignorant but they judge YOU as being ignorant. Just because you think you are qualified to pass judgement, doesn't make it so.

Well i was right, you dont know what being ignorant is. Being ignorant is simply lacking knowledge. People that believe in religions lack knowledge about the world to see why their belief is fruitless. Often i find they even lack knowledge about their own religion. Im not passing judgement, im constituting a fact. Being ignorant is not an insult, we all are ignorant in some ways. However if you are ignorant on a subject you should seek knowledge, not spout nonsense as facts. Sadly the religiuos often do the latter.

Imaginary beings according to one (you) who has NO qualifications to make such a proclamation (opinion once again). Sorry but you are not omniscient or right about everything you believe you are right about and your views/opinions are not infallible. I would hope you are broad minded enough to acknowledge this. ALSO, how do you know that you are "sane"?

Made up imaginary beings are made up imaginary beings and there is no qualifications needed to do this. Most people should grow up out of their imaginary friend phase, but turns out a lot dont. I never claimed to be omniscient, and if you can prove me wrong you are welcome to it. simply claiming im stupid isnt proving me wrong though.

This statement alone made me take pause in even responding. BASIC human respect does not have to be earned. If you believe that does, try going out in public and disrespecting everyone who hasn't "earned" your respect and see how fast you end up in the hospital, jail, or the morgue.

I think you mean basic human decency here. Decency is given, respect is earned.

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Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

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Well at least you are being civil, which is more than most people on this board, so thats some respect earned right there.
I'm trying to show you respect, even though you haven't really "earned" it lol!!
You stated i was wrong in saying they do not exist.
No. I stated that it is your opinion. I never said that you were wrong.
If you look for your keys on the table and there is nothing on the table its quite logical to conclude there are no keys on the table. So unless you are bringing some revolutionary proof of souls existence, no, they dont exist.
By that logic, if we were alive 500 years ago and I told you the room you were in was full of "radio waves" that carry images and sound, you would look for them and find NO proof of their existence so you would say it was a FACT that they didn't. You would be wrong.

Well i was right, you dont know what being ignorant is. Being ignorant is simply lacking knowledge.
I'm fully aware of what ignorant is. One thing it's NOT is disagreeing with someone else's opinions even if they falsely assert them as fact.
However if you are ignorant on a subject you should seek knowledge, not spout nonsense as facts. Sadly the religiuos often do the latter
Sadly the non-religious do too. I have been seeking knowledge for many decades and I still do to this day. I have read the entire Bible. Many parts of it, multiple times. I have read and listened to plenty of atheist's theories and ideas. So far I have heard or read NOTHING that excludeds God. No one has yet come up with answers or any sort of proof to the ultimate questions so asserting that God doesn't exist as a fact is dishonest at BEST. I can go with big bang. I can go with evolution, etc., etc., etc. but as I said, none of it rules out God.
Made up imaginary beings are made up imaginary beings and there is no qualifications needed to do this.
Like I said, 500 years ago, radio waves, bacteria, radiation, etc., etc., etc., would have been considered "imaginary beings" but they weren't, were they?
I never claimed to be omniscient, and if you can prove me wrong you are welcome to it.
The ONLY way you could know with 100% certainty that God (or the soul) doesn't exist is if you were either omniscient or if you were God lol! I also never said you were stupid but you said people of faith are morons (not civil).

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

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the movie never once mention souls.
Wrong:
Dr. Bernard Merrick: I have discovered the Holy Grail of science, Mr. Laurent. I give life! The agnates, they're simply tools, instruments; they have no souls.


I don't dance, tell jokes or wear my pants too tight, but I do know about a thousand songs.

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They didn't forget it. They excluded it on purpose because it's nonsense. Belief in magical beings or souls or whatever other unscientific gibberish is nonsense.

So they didn't put it in the movie.

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