I dont understand this sex scene in the stairs. They are violent against each other then he almost rapes her but he regrets all and pulls away, but then she pulls him back and wants him to proceed. They then have sex on the stairs. When they are done she angrily walks away. Wtf? I dont understand what emotions they're supposed to showcase?
shareI doubt it can be explained very well with words. It's only truly expressible as a movie scene. That is why this movie and the acting is so great imho.
There is desperation and doubt there about whether they still love each other now that his mask has slipped. Part of the old Joey is coming out and he tries to turn back from that, while she still can't believe this is happening. Tries to ignore the impossible. And there is also some of that "no means maybe" - women want to see men pursuing them seriously and not just for laughs.
The final scene is even better in that regard. What do you think those looks between Tom and Edie mean? In the beginning of the movie he says "I remember the moment I knew you were in love with me. I saw it in your eyes. I can still see it."
And there is also some of that "no means maybe" - women want to see men pursuing them seriously and not just for laughs.
Please see my reply blow - I don't think it's so clear cut that Tom raped his wife on the stairs.
shareIt was no rape. She wanted it more than he did actually...that is quite obvious.
Remember she dressed up as a cheerleader before for him. This time it was his turn to dress up - but it was much more real than the cheerleader dress. That was the ultimate turn on.
It meant yes here.
shareOh spare me! Must every waking moment in modern life be viewed through the evil male innocent female microscope?
She's a dill, a typical self centred female-person-people for whom all things must be fashioned her way by others. She doesn't know what she wants because she doesn't trouble herself with thinking much about anything. So long as the blokes around her do as she demands she just makes the rest up as she goes along.
The moment her husband lifts his hands to defend his family and himself she treats him with suspicion. The moment he confronts the misguided people who-are-being-momentarily-horrid-and-will-probably-mature-into-nice-adults (Ed Harris & Co) she scrambles about to inhibit his defensive movements, then runs into their home to - well, not to collect a hand gun to help her husband but to have a sob about her life being disrupted by these horrible men. Her son and husband remain outside fighting for their lives.
When Mr Husband finally comes home her daughter is the only one to act as a civilised, thoughtful person who instinctively believes her father has worth. Mrs Mother will have to knock that aberration out of her before she gets much older.
Incidentally - for the her-person "no" means whatever she decides it meant when she discovers later which cited reason is most profitable.
That's safe policy, and it holds up in court.
But plenty of women fantasize about rape, and plenty of women tease.
In this instance she was conflicted, and they had an angry tryst on the stairs.
Personally I think it was just another excuse for Cronenberg to shoot another woman that would never @$## Cronenberg.
And there is also some of that "no means maybe" - women want to see men pursuing them seriously and not just for laughs.
Oh, so you think the stair scene in the movie is a violent rape scene? She says "Get off me" TWICE.
I find that a bit dogmatic and narrow minded - it's just more complicated. Tom knows in that moment that if he lets her go, he will loose her forever. And by physically not letting her go, he shows her that he can't let her go. And it works, that's why she doesn't leave him right then and there.
And is a women "allowed" to change her mind once she said no, or does that make her... I don't know, a misogynist? ;) (obvious hyperbole)
So did he rape his wife or not?
Changing your mind or being unsure does not mean "women want to be pursued (persuaded?)". That's all I'm saying.
The scene is violent by all means.
Both are unsure what will happen. Will she be leaving him? Is he still the guy she married?
Finch: "In all the time I’ve known him he’s never let me down.”
"Goodbye, Harold."
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Sure but did you somehow miss the moment where he was realizing he went too far into "Joey mode" and pulled away, but she was turned on and physically pulled him back in?
shareNot, simply because she is the one who pulls him back after he tried to move away. Edie is turned on by the Joey side of Tom, then, afterwards, is highly disturbed by her feelings.
But she consented - more than that, she assisted him.
Yeah that is what I meant. No sometimes can mean maybe. Or you could even paint the scene that she only consented because she was afraid of her life or what he might do. She might even misremembers it afterwards like that because she despises herself. It's a controversial and disturbing topic. And it's acted out very well.
shareNo, as they say, means no. It doesn't mean "maybe if you're really good in bed I'll change my mind", which I hear is something that happens in male fantasies.
The thing is, here, Edie is dealing with two men - the familiar, Tom, and the virtually unknown, Joey. Or possibly even three, since there is a third personality, a Tom/Joey hybrid as it were. So she refuses one, no meaning no, body language against any encounter with him, let alone a sexual one; then she pulls him back, instigating sex when he would have stepped away. But that's bad boy Joey she's pulling back - perhaps the bad boy she wanted when she played the bad girl in the previous sexual encounter, when perhaps Tom wasn't naughty enough for her.
It's two different situations with two different men.
But always, always, no means no, not no means maybe I will if you're sufficiently proficient.
It bears the hallmarks of Cronenberg's existentialist views, too, .
Wow. Nice job slipping that sexism in under the radar.
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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
That's a very interesting idea. She refused the "pretender", the face with he lied to her all those years, but says yes to his true personality. And yeah of course it hails back to the cheerleader scene where he was anything but wild.
No, as they say, means no. It doesn't mean "maybe if you're really good in bed I'll change my mind", which I hear is something that happens in male fantasies.
But of course it's not like he rapes her until she changes her mind, he physically restrains her so she can't run away until she indicates yes instead of no. At the very least, being too polite and civilized might keep you from getting laid sometimes lol.
The thing is, here, Edie is dealing with two men - the familiar, Tom, and the virtually unknown, Joey. Or possibly even three, since there is a third personality, a Tom/Joey hybrid as it were. So she refuses one, no meaning no, body language against any encounter with him, let alone a sexual one; then she pulls him back, instigating sex when he would have stepped away. But that's bad boy Joey she's pulling back - perhaps the bad boy she wanted when she played the bad girl in the previous sexual encounter, when perhaps Tom wasn't naughty enough for her.
Yep exactly. She was attracted irresistably to Joey and when it was done her more rational mind took over.
shareNot, simply because she is the one who pulls him back after he tried to move away. Edie is turned on by the Joey side of Tom, then, afterwards, is highly disturbed by her feelings.
But she consented - more than that, she assisted him.
Or so some men think. No means no, always.
It's pretty simple - it's women.
She was angry that he had fooled her all this time and kept this secret but she is also turned on by his secret - that he is a much more exciting person in his past.
Nothing complicated here other than the woman's brain which is inscrutable sometimes even to a woman.
Way weirder than that is they kept going to extreme lengths to get camera angles that would not show any of her body, then out of nowhere she just walks by with everything showing for no reason. lol. I saw some other movie that had that same type of thing happen.... seems like it was that movie called Teeth.
shareIt's more of a decision by the director. It's not even in the original script. It's more of Bello's character seeing Joey as he truly is and grasping at anything to find a hint of Tom still inside of Joey. Sex is a vulnerable time physically, emotionally, and psychologically and it's her way of trying to "make things work." She likes the idea of Joey in a way and is obviously turned on by it, but at the same time really wants to find Tom inside of Joey.
Just need to look into the scene a little more. The OP isn't too far off to be honest, except the whole "no means yes" BS. And no, it wasn't rape at all.
there's a whole explanation of it in the FAQ section. I just watched it on TV, and they cut out almost the whole scene. It showed them down on the steps, then they just got up and walked away lol. I wouldn't have known anything happened if I didn't read the boards.
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