Celestine Prophecy is the Noosphere Omega of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
The Redfields never gave credit to the "mysterious secret priest" who found the aramaic insights that lead to evolution i.e. Teilhard
Who would want credit for this tripe? Probably the best favor the guy ever had was not being credited.
shareoh, right and the matrix was stolen from a black psychic woman living in the bronx.
It's propaganda bull sh!t.
And the only way you can say this book sucks is if you either didn't understand the message or your just not open minded.
Don't say the book sucks without a credible reason. Your opinion is your opinion, but obviously someone liked it enough to give it a budget.
I'm not a vindictive person... I just want you to die in a blazing inferno of steel and gasoline.
Great that's an opinion as well
I didn't say the book sucks you did
I will say it didn't follow its premise; ie "protecting virgin old forest trees on a mountain" When Redfield was told of the destruction of the Headwaters Forest in northern California, he did nothing let me repeat he did and said nothing in the defense of this stand of old growth trees, which is on the basic premise of his story. Got it yet ?
Also he did not state that the Celestine Prophecy is basically the life and spiritual philosophy of Pierre Teilhard Maybe you think its ok to steal from another as long as the message gets out.... I don't
You must be one of those persons who follow the word and not the deed ( Is that clear ?)
That's why politicans are so successful in this country all they have to do is say the 'word' and that is taken for reality
shame on you for your inabliity to think
No you're wrong, its the most complete philosophy in the history of man (that is Pierre Teilhard's spiritual philosophy deluted in form in C.P.)
Its Teilhard de Chardin's idea in C.P. that the most important process through which evolution is making its accent is one in which simultaneously organising increase their complexity and their consciousness as life becomes more complex it becomes more conscious As it becomes more conscious, it becomes more complex
This creativity of evolution is expressed by Teilhard as a never ending process of building ever more refined forms of consciousness
It was just proven by science that the universe is expanding
Redfield is to be given credit for melding the ideas of Pierre Teilhard and Carl Jung that's the "coincidence" idea in C.P. Redfield learned from Ira Progroff that the 'missing incredent' in Teilhard's philosophy was Jung's idea of synchronicity ie coincidence That was brilliant of Redfield
its just that when Redfield who self-published the first edition of C.P. had the major publishers at bay begging him to sign with them
Redfield gave in to the power complex that is he went for power ie money over spirituality
Well when Redfield had the chance he didn't get Time-Warner to print his book on recycled paper Thats a major comprise of ethics with the thought of his book ie "saving trees"
and then Redfield lied to me and the public on Art Bell national radio show when he said in the future the next books would be on recycled paper (they haven't been)
I suppose you could go one step further and say that if Redfield really cared about trees, he would have published his book exclusively online or in some kind of electronic format. That would have spared a whole bunch of trees, considering it was a bestseller and had multiple printings, including foreign translations.
And let's hope he was paid with electronic money transfers, so no trees were killed to print a royalty check.
When the movie comes out, and if it gets a major distributor, the book will almost certainly be republished/repackaged with new artwork to match the movie. Should he insist on it being printed on recycled paper only? Sometimes these things are beyond the author's control despite his best intentions; the publisher, the producer, the film distributor, etc., often have a greater say in the final product.
JL
JL, You're wrong with the premise that "these things are beyond the author's control"
Remember Redfield self-published the first edition of Celestine Prophecy then a bidding war started with Redfield picking whom he wanted to publish his book one of the conditions should have been "printed on recycled paper"
After all that's the major premise of his book saving trees so when he has the chance he does not ?
And there the case of Redfield lying to me on the Art Bell show
and the sin omission by not telling the people who read his books that the mysterious priest was Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
can you say fantaic? i knew you could...
Cause personally i dont give a rats ass...
You sad...so sad..
Y'shua, in the book of Thomas if I remember correctly, chides his followers by saying, (paraphrase)You are like a bunch of children in the square, running around exclaiming, "Nah, Nah, Nah, Nah, Nah, look what you've done to me."
"He lied to me??" Who said he was talking to you? What kind of selfish, self-centered existance do you live? This guy is on a radio show and he lied to YOU?? Pleh-eese! Give up your petty mind and do the work he suggests in the book!
If you didn't like the book/movie or Jim, why bother with all this bickering? Why don't you try out some of what the work suggests and try a little responsibility in your life? Do some of the work and it will open such profound spaces in you that these petty arguments will not be worth your effort. Get a life! The book was the 2nd best selling book in the world in 1995. Obviously, there is something of value there. Why don't you try in instead of complaining that he didn't make you happy because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. How does whining look like your life?
Its not Jim's job to put you in a state of happiness you have never lived in and probably never will if you don't change you moaning ways. Give it up! Notice your life is just like it was 5 years ago, 10 years ago and will likely be in another 10 years. Start minding the light instead of cursing the darkness.
PS - I've studied Teilhard and Celestine - Celestine did not come from Teilhard. THat is so for off base it is not funny. Are there parallels? Yes. But, anything that works has a common thread but a common thread does not mean the same weaver.
I see it does not matter what he said to me if I say its a lie (I'm self-centered) Yeah, that's real good logic...
If you do not "know" that the C.P. is Teilhards work then you know nothing
You're just arguing with me
Why bother with all the bickering Because he stole what was not his.....
Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin paid a heavy price for his evolutionary views which the Vatican and Catholic Church supressed during his lifetime.I think Redfield owes Teilhard an acknowledgement
I did not say the book didn't have value it does, or it wouldn't have lasted nor grown to the success it has. That's not the issue the value or worth of the book. Its Mr.Redfields fall into the power complex when the world came to his doorstep and when Mr.Redfield had the chance to do the right thing and protect old forest trees, he didn't, nor did he tell the world that the Celestine Prophecy is the life and spiritual philosophy of Teilhard
Teilhard whose "manuscripts" on spiritual evolution were forbidden to be published by order of the Vatican. Teilhard who went to China and helped in the discovery of Peking man that helped further paleontology and the theory of the missing link between Ape and Man. Teilhard the priest-scientist-philosopher who through his "manuscript's" described the noosphere of human evolution in which the whole planet nay, the whole universe participates which is the real "intelligent design" that Christians talk about.
I think that is important and Redfield stole Teilhard story
one more issue mjr72,"Who said he was speaking to you ? I was the first caller to speak to Redfield on the Art Bell Coast to Coast radio show.. So of course he was speaking to me directly in response to my questions Got it ??????. In fact, if you look on the Art Bell Archive on your computor, you can find James Redfield and you'll see one of my questions on the use of recycled paper posted there
have a good life and goodbye
this is by far the most rediculous message board i have ever read, i have read all of james redfields books and love them all, i dont think you guys should be wasting your time with this 'gay catholic' he/she is obviously a soul in deep fear, and the idea of sending energy to lift him into awareness in a message board is ridiculous.
shareWow, whether you agree with the message of the book or not, it seems like a waste of energy - spiritual, mental and physical - to get so upset about a difference of opinion. But then again, that's just my opinion. Anyhow, gay catholic obviously is set in their opinion but I don't think anybody here who is concerned about keeping their energy up and flowing should allow themselves to be dragged down by somebody looking for arguments on a board for a movie that they have such a problem with.
shareWhy is it a waste of energy ? Because I have a different opinion ?
No you have a hidden agenda with your words in trying to subvert my message by saying my ideas are a "waste of energy" a "lowering of energy" "dragged down"
That's just your opinion Why not let people read and make up their own minds ?
Why do you try to think for them Decide for the masses what's good for them and what's not Think about it
You really added nothing to the conversation but your own opinion that is nothing but your personal bias
Whatever you said I did bring up some empirical facts that Redfield did not save old forest trees when he had the chance that Redfield did not practice recycling of paper i.e. his books
That Redfield lied to me and the public on Art Bell coast to coast radio show ( of which there is proof see archives Art Bell Show
GC
The Catholic church has done that for centuries. Who are they to decide what is good for the masses?
shareI don't think I'm wasting my time The truth will set you free
The Celestine Prophecy is about the Catholic insights of Pierre Teilhard
fm, great, glad you liked the book C.P. so did I
Why can't I grow by people sending me loving energy on this electronic
message board which is made up of energy
actually many founders of the computor and internet says its the prophecy
of Pierre Teilhards "Noosphere" do you know about that ?
may you live in the loving kindness of your neighbors
gaycaholic
"Teilhard who went to China and helped in the discovery of Peking man that helped further paleontology and the theory of the missing link between Ape and Man."
would you be referring to the austrolopithicus (sp?) Lucy and other such finding from Africa? That kind of work is on display, here in Tempe, AZ at ASU.
you are very passionate, and that is good, but you rarely back up any of the things you say and that makes what you are saying seem like nothing more than outbursts and fits of rage. it is too bad that you are choosing this way of trying to communicate how you feel about the redfields and engaging in so much animosity with all of the other people here on this message board. regardless of all this extra stuff, the message is good, important, no matter who it comes from. i think everyone on this board should definately exercise more patience and kindess and thought when trying to talk to people on here. what's the point of expression like these? if people are not going to be of the mind/practice/way that the book(s) teach (or interested to learn about them), then why are they on this board? they shouldn't be. no need for any extra negativity in our world guys.
mjr72, so you've studied the works of Teilhard and C.P.
Lets ask some questions then the "mysterious" priest in CP is a Catholic
priest no ? (Teilhard was a catholic priest)
The reason the Catholic Chruch in CP was against this mysterious priest
was the idea of "evolution"
on page 236 of C.P. "Evolve! Evolve! listen you yourself,Father,you have
always fought against the influence of evolution. "........."
" Sanchez ( a catholic priest) collected himself."Yes,I fought against the
idea of evolution as a replacement for God,as a way to explain the universe
without reference to God.But now I see that the truth is a synthesis of the
scientific and religious world views.The truth is that evolution is the way
God created,and is still creating."
This is exactly the idea of the catholic
priest and scientist and Teilhard why the Vatican silenced him from publishing his
"insights on spiritual physical evolution"
Now everybody who has read Teilhard knows he was a scientist (paleontology)
and wrote 'spiritual insights combining science with religion'
Pierre Teilhard was looking for the missing link between ape and man
That's the idea of evolution
"But there is no evolution," Sebastian protested (That's Cardinal Sebastian
who represents the official Vatican position on evolution (at that time,
evolution is somewhat recognized now by the church, but not man as evolving)
Sanchez,"Cardinal Sebastian." he continued,"the Manuscript describes the
progress of succeeding generations as an evolution of understanding,an
evolution toward a higher spirituality and vibration.
Ok right here Piere Teilhard was forbidden to publish his "manuscripts"
by order of the Catholic Church at the Vatican Why ?
because of Teilhard's ideas of cosmic evolution and that was brought about
by Human Consciousness and Complexity
Redfield uses 'spiritualty and vibration'as a substitute for consciousness
and complexity of Teilhard but you can see and understand higher spirituality would have to be higher consciousness and the higher vibration rate of
Redfield is the higher complexity of humanity, Teilhard's idea
more later
GC
you are right about redfield and recycled paper, he should do a better job about it, but it is important to get the word out, and he did.
you obviously don't understand the work of him and your beloved priest (who you claim redfield stole all of the information from, in its entirety, quite a hefty accusation there) or you would never have said that the point of the book was to "save trees" as clearly that is not the main point, but rather an extreme focus, and not the only one.
princess nija,
I'm sorry I didn't express myself correctly saving trees
is a major, main focus among many spiritual ecological fronts in the story
The main idea of C.P. is Pierre Teilhard's idea of consciousnes and
complexity moving to the noosphere and Omega That's why the title of
Redfields book is Celestine ie the noosphere and Prophecy which is the
Omega ie future of the prophecy
Pierre Teilhards Celestine Prophecy called Noosphere Omega is that humanity is the leader of the
evolutionary point to not only earth but the universe all living entities
see through our eyes we are the gatekeepers eveything thing is alive with
consciousness every atom has an interior made of consciousness it took
billions of years to make the earth livable but only millions of years
to make a self reflecting consciousness (knowing its knows)and humanity
is now evolving by the increase of consciousness and complexity The world
is becoming more complex and man is the leader of this which will lead to
I'll stop here, I don't think people want to hear this from the replies
I recieved
anyway best of luck
GayCatholic
JL,You're statement on electronic money transfers is rather snide
and immature most author's do not have control on how the book
is published or how much money they will get
That's not the case here:
Remember Redfield self-pubished the first edition
of C.P. While no one will complain he couldn't afford to put
that first edition on recycled paper he simply couldn't afford
it.
That's not the case with the publishing the second edition by Time
Warner Redfield had absolute control over that because there was a
bidding war among publishers and Time-Warner won that is they gave
Redfield what he wanted so at that time Redfield could have had the
the book C.P. published on recycled paper
Now as to the Movie C.P. Redfields are the producers and owners so they have
absolute control over everything
OK ?
GayCatholic
jjgalore, hey that was cleaver
gc
Well there is information on the Art Bell radio archieves for one
Yes it was good to get Teilhard's message out at the same time its not right to use someone's idea and not give them credit*
Now at this moment in time with the country usa, fighting over science vs evolution wouldn't it have been nice if Redfield had explained Teilhard's Catholic theology I say "catholic" because Teilard remained one all his life.
* Time-Warner gave Teilhard credit when they bought the rights to the book from Redfield its called the 'guide' put out by another author
GC
Hello GC.
I think you have brought an interesting point. Since I liked Redfield's book, you can be most assured I will check out Telhard's writings if available.
You have a good cause to fight for (exposing the truth) and I admire your passion for it.
Be certain that I am not about to be an apologist for Redfield for what I am going to say. But, what if time, fate, the great spirit etc. actually used Redfield to help spread Teilhard's insights to a less Catholic/Religious crowd.
I hate plagerism, and in the business I am in, it is a rampant disease. While I think Teilhard probably doesn't have the absolute truth just as Redfield or anyone else for that matter, it is still wrong if Redfield plagerized for profit.
But, if per chance, Redfield read Teihard's writings, and maybe took some ideas from him, along with Jung and whoever else is out there and combined them with his own ideas, then I see no problem with that. Also, sometimes you can come up with an original idea, and only realize that someone else in the world has had the same idea (I think Redfield talked about that) and it's not a cop-out, it does happen. Does that make one's idea less original or plagerized?
My last point is Star Wars. I have always loved those films for what they are. Even after I found out that Lucas had taken/borrowed/stole (whatever your word of choice is) from other films in the past (eg "The Hidden Fortress" by Kurasawa), and philosophies (J. Campbell mythology writings, and another whose concept of the "force" belongs to another, can't remember) I still didn't mind.
In fact, Kurasawa and Campbell took it as a giant compliment for imitation is the highest form of flatery. They became close friends and Lucas produced some of Kurasawa's films and even named a theatre at USC after him.
So, while your cause is noble, and I appreciate you bringing the knowledge of Teilhard out, you should let go of hate and anger. Perhaps if you just bring out that Redfield "may" have gotten his ideas from Teilhard and expose us to that author, we would read Teilhard's writings and come up with the conclusion of plagerism on our own.
Anyhow, thank you very much for the information, and I am looking forward with excitement to Teilhard's writings.
Good fortune to you and thank you once again.
MDF
Hello MDF, Thanks your post was intelligent and you make good points. Yes its true Redfield was able to combine a lot of authors, foremost Pierre Teilhard,and Carl Jung.This was first suggested by Ira Progoff a student of Jung's who stated what was missing in Teilhard's spirituality was the concept of Jung's synchronicity.Redfield read that and put Jung and Teilhard together and the world beat a path to his doorstep.If only Redfield had acknowledged those two people when he self-published the first edition of C.P. That was not the case though.It was when Time-Warner bought the rights to C.P. and printed the second edition,that Redfield was forced against his will to let a ghost-writer Carol Adrienne write a self-help guide.It was only then Jung Teilhard and others were acknowledged as adding to the ideas in C.P. If it had been left to Redfield he would have never said a word to the world.Redfield would have claimed all the ideas in C.P. as his own. Yet Time-Warner knew better and covered its corporate liability with the issuing of the C.P. Guide
James Redfield gives a mia culpa at the introduction of C.P.Guide
G.C.
MDF,Yes Kurasawa and Campbell took star wars as a compliment because they
were both given credit by Lucas. I believe that Joseph Campbell was even
consulted in the making of Star Wars
that's a big differenct from Redfield who was never going to credit
anybody my proof ? He published the CP book by himself and never gave
credit to anyone for the ideas in the book except he mentioned Einstein
All authors borrow ideas from others no problem but lets say you wrote
a comic book on Einstein's theory of relativity and it was a best-seller
among young people and the world hailed you for that
Would you think it ok to say that the theory of relativity is you original
idea ?
I'm curious here maybe I have this all wrong and have miscalculated the
whole issue please enlighten me with your reply
a gaycatholic
It may be not be earth-shattering to you, but can be to others who have never been exposed to something like this. I think it is all depending on the person.
share[deleted]
Thanks gaycatholic for making us aware that Celestine Prophecy was stolen from Pierre Teilhard.
Now I can read Pierre Teilhard's work as well and perhaps there is more in there that Redfield missed.
I have to say that I think CP will go down in history as a classic book and I can only hope that the film will do it justice. It is good that Pierre Teilhard is recognised by the film industry. And it is great that Redfield managed to get this spirtual knowledge to so many
Whilst CP was one of the best books I ever read in the spiritual category (along with The Alchemist) I have to say that The Tenth Insight, Redfield's follow up book, was dissapointing. I guess the ideas in there were not so heavily inspired from other's work?? The 2 books are a different calibre but it would have been asking the impossible for a second book to get anywhere close to CP!
I'm now going to go off and take a look at Pierre Teilhard's work
...And you guys oin this board, stop tryna steal energy from each other! ;-)
Julian
Yes it was good that Redfield wrote the Celestine Prophecy and many of the
ideas in it are his own creative inspiration.Is the world better for this
book yes without a doubt.
I started and facilitated a CP meeting group in my home for over a year
I never met a person there who was not nice.
Some of the people who were in Carol Adrienne's group,came to the meetings
in my home Carol wrote the Celestine Prophecy Guide (they just put James
Redfield's name on it for show) James Redfield wrote the introduction
and its right there in print his statement that he was sort of 'forced'
to write the guide and he didn't want to.
Let me decipher that Time-Warner (later brought up on charges of corruption)
bought the rights to C.P. in a bidding war with other publishers At that very
time James Redfield gave into the power complex and sold-out the basic premise
of the C.P. storyline that is that Old Growth Forrests were sacred and had to
be saved yet when James Redfield had the whole publishing world at his feet
willing to do what he wished to gain the book rights James Redfield sold out
and did not ask,nay did not demand in the name of the sacred trees on the
planet earth. He did not ask for the paper to be used in printing this best-
seller to be RE-CYCLED PAPER thereby saving old growth trees and fulfilling
THE CELESTINE PROPHECY
Whatever one can say this was a bad decision
Now in the year of our Lord 2005A.D. there is a debate raging in America and
the world on the place of God in this modern world
If James Redfield had told the truth about the "mysterious priest" with his
"manuscripts" was none other than the French priest philosopher paleontologist
Father Marie Joseph Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, a direct decendent of the
french philosopher Voltaire known as Pierre Teilhard This brilliant yet humble
priest had completed what the scientist-philosopher Joseph P.Provenzano of
Pasadena Jet Propulsion Lab of N.A.S.A. says is the first and only 'complete'
philosophy of humankind
A philosophical-Religious Science of Intelligent Design
If Redfield has sourced Teihard and his writings as an actual fact of
the story line of Celestine Prophecy. People may have rushed to learn
and read of this spitirtual-scientific-philsophy-religion "insights"
of Pierre Teilhard
and the story line in your newspapers on Intelligence Design would be
based on science philosophy spiritual religious thinking and feeling
of Pierre Teilhardas it is this will have to wait.Hopefully humankind will calm down
and try to find solutions to our culture problems
a gaycatholic
[deleted]
Its funny Redfield will be in San Francisco at the Learning Annex
to "teach" the world about "synchronicity" and his new movie Dec.6th
Not many years ago with the Celestine Prophecy it was called "coincidence"
not "synchronicity" Why because in 1994 Redfield was trying to hide from
the world that he used Carl Jung's synchronicity concept along with
Teihards spirituality to make the CP work
Now in 2005 Redfield ever the greedy materialist the use of the word
"synchronicity" is now in vogue (used by other authors such as Deepak
Chopra) that Redfield is trying to capitalize on that, ie make money
The Redfields are a very greedy couple and will use anybody to gain
fame and money even stepping on the graves of Pierre Teilhard and
Carl Jung
for shame
gaycatholic