Uncomfortable Age Gap


I found the age difference between Harlan and Tobe a little distressing, particularly as it was never really addressed in the film. Why exactly was it necessary to have the Tobe character be so young? Or if it was important that Harlan meet a 17-year-old, then why cast someone so much older than her?

I don’t have a problem with films that explore taboo relationships, but Down in the Valley didn’t explore it at all. A sexual relationship between a child and a much older adult needs to be justified, and I didn’t think it was. Basically i was left feeling uncomfortable and distracted from an otherwise interesting story.

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You have a point.

I think that unlike say Lolita, this movie relies on the unspoken of an obvious situation. A girl any much other than Tobe wouldn't be so stupidly gullible to Harlen's charms, lies, and illness. There is an intrinsic naiveté in just being young. Harlan sees her as "young and innocent" even though she's clearly not innocent at all. Her "innocence" is reflective of the "old world" Harlan wishes he could be a part of. Also, her being young also means she's under the rule of the father, who is also more-or-less the "ruler" of the county (sheriff).

Now, you could say that Harlen could've been written as younger, maybe 19 or 20. But I think the film would loose a basic element of forbiddeness (I'm going to make up words). If he was younger, we'd probably be more willing to root for the two of them to end up together, and to see the couple as victimized by those around them. Would you be able to understand or sympathize Wade's pointing a gun in Harlan's face if Harlan was a teenage like his daughter? Personally, I'd be more inclined to think Wade was bonkers, not Harlan.

From the beginning, we're given a "loving" and sexual relationship that we know is wrong. It almost seems like Harlan hasn't even had sex before. He's the innocent one. I think it's clear that there's something wrong with Harlen for meeting, dating, having sex with Tobe, and I think we're told this subtly in large part BECAUSE of the age difference.

So, you're not wrong. It doesn't exactly "explore" the May/December Romance. But I think it is validated because it adds layers tot he story, and it actually DEFINES the characters involved. What do YOU think?

"Theres no way I'm gonna let you rob this nations children of even ONE glass of wholesome nutritious milk!"

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May/December? You gotta be kidding me.

Norton was 35 when he shot the movie; what's your month after December?

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Hum, are you aware that "May/December Romance" does not refer to a literal description of the age gap, but is in fact a phrase used to describe a romance with many years difference?

http://ask.yahoo.com/20051017.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_disparity_in_sexual_relationships

Theres no way I'm gonna let you rob this nations children of even ONE glass of wholesome nutritious milk!

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From your link:
"The phrase comes from the younger person being in the "spring" of his or her life (i.e., May), while the older partner is in his or her "winter" (i.e., December)."

So 35 means he reached winter?

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Wow guy.

Theres no way I'm gonna let you rob this nations children of even ONE glass of wholesome nutritious milk!

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yoo, not too much between the ears huh?

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Agree with you.

Winter does imply one is in their last years, like it's the last month.

But then again, for him it did turn out to be the end of his life.

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I don't see your point at all.

Imagine the story with Tobe being in her mid-forties. Would it have worked? Wade would be what, her husband? She would cry after his death because she is a moron? Would that be the same story? I don't think so. She had to be young.

Also, I don't see why any small detail has to be explained. I think that might be why Hollywood movies do never look real: Everything is explained, nothing is left to the imagination. This is not how real life works. Things are ugly in real life. Things are unexplained. Young girls fall in love with older men. It might even be a good thing.

In this case though, it wasn't. Harlan is delusional and dangerous; I wouldn't want him anywhere near my daughter if she would be 95.

Last, Ms. Wood was 17 when the movie premiered in Cannes, not "much older" than her role.

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I agree. Her age and his problems made it more intense. Someone whose sane would've cared just a tad. It's her age and rebellion that even made the movie happen.

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Exactly.

As I wrote on another thread, Harlan is immature (mostly emotionally). This is why he acts the way a young girl can find attractive, cool, acceptable. The very first scene where they meet and he quits a job just for going to the beach would make somebody older (even in young 20's) at list a bit cautious. But girls in Tobe's age are attracted to rebels, that feed their own rebellion, and they can identify their teenage problems with the boy's. Harlan, not too old (Norton was playing a character much younger than his own age) to look ridiculous (if he was obviously over 30 girls would laugh him away as the dirty old man), and without real life experiences, also can find an emotional-age-peer in Tobe.

But this is America and people are so obsessed with some standards (in this case, biological age) that are been repeatedly inserted in their minds, that it can disable them (like the opening poster) from seeing anything deeper. As they have been taught about the age of 18 when child by a touch of magical sword or fairy dust becomes an adult, so an innocent baby girl (of 17) in a day becomes a desirable woman ready to become a porn star, then they miss to see that it is Tobe who seduces Harlan, who induces his (immature) leaving the job, who induces their intercourse, who makes him take drugs. And it is Harlan who is the inexperienced one and follows, even obeys her doing things he had never done before.

However, Harlan is not retarded and he understands that he is older and that his age is in our society connected to some obligations and responsibilities. He doesn't live according to them, because of his (immature) personality and because of Tobe's influence, but sometimes (mostly when talking to Wade) he uses phrases that he knows Wade would expect to hear from a person Harlan's age. And the real problems start when he tries to include this responsibility in his real actions, so he decides that (as an adult) it is his duty to take care of Tobe and Lonnie, because they don't have a proper care at Wade's home. Having no life experiences, and immature and simple person as he is, his plan is equally simple, and even Tobe understands that it can't work. Even more, it is the moment when she realizes the age gap: he is suddenly acting as a husband (and she surely doesn't need one) and a father (and she already has one, she would probably say one too much), so as there is nothing that she wants or needs Tobe goes a step back - but it is the crucial moment where romance turns into tragedy.

If Harlan was more mature and more experienced, he would have understood Tobe and her needs, the needs of a teenage school girl. He could have a choice to avoid her, to play a small role in her life and vanish, to withdraw when the situation went out of control, or to be patient and simply be there as a part of her own maturation till the age when their difference wouldn't be so important. (The last option will probably be unacceptable for moral crusaders I've mentioned in 2nd paragraph, and they will find my post blasphemous, illegal, pervert etc, but there have been many real-life romances that proved it to be possible.)

And one big objection to the authors: there was no need to include the police investigation which found Harlan to be a former prisoner. This was probably said just for certain audience who simply has to hate somebody in the movie, and if Harlan (a "kidnapper" and a "predator" "seducing" the "innocent" girl) still wasn't a guy bad enough, then he had to be a person with criminal history. But try to imagine this same Harlan as a burglar? We have seen him steeling a horse (just to have good time with a girl - not a welcome thing to be done, but definitely more immature than criminal), and we have seen him intruding in somebody's house... and what he was doing there - writing a letter to his father who has abandoned him when he was 12 (probably influencing a lot on his later immaturity and instability)! Is it something that you'd expect a real, professional, convicted burglar to do?

Aside from a fact that a cowboy so in love with this life style comes to live in California among all places in America, this is (for me) the biggest plot hole in the movie.

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She's supposed to be a rebellious teen who is too immature to see the danger in front of her until it's too late.
Obviously their mother was gone, and they were left to be raised by a man who wasn't their father, who was struggling in his own right to handle the situation. The kids, being messed up and lost to begin with, having no sense of place , feeling that the man raising them can't possibly care for them and is the enemy because he is not family, are the perfect prey for Harlan who is "a nobody who wishes he was a somebody, who is willing to do something stupid to meet his goal".

The age gap is what made the story work.

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isnt the age gap what made the movie a bit? it was messed up but made the movie what it was. to clarify it was the hostility from the father, and who do you want to believe. i had no idea that harlan was crazy like that.

Angel : In 243 years I've loved exactly one person.

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i haven't seen this movie in years, but the age difference is one of the things that made it work.

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