MovieChat Forums > Memoirs of a Geisha (2005) Discussion > Chinese women in cheap kimono

Chinese women in cheap kimono


Thats exactly what the title of this racist, ridiculous movie should have been called, but then what more can you expect from hollywood.

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*yawn*

Go dry your tears.

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This movie is not racist. It hired many attractive East Asian actors in non-stereotypcial East Asian roles-a rarity in Hollywood. The costumes and sets were beautiful and colorful-a glamorized fantasy take on Japanese culture. I'm Asian and not the least bit offended.

If you hate this so much, then don't you have other movies you like better that you could comment on? Why focus on so much negativity?

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I'm Asian and not the least bit offended.
Asian, but not Japanese.

I wouldn't call the film 'racist' but it's definitely culturally insensitive regarding Japan, you know, the place where the film is set. There is really nothing in the film that accurately represents Japan, in general, nor Geisha culture, in particular.

Here in Japan, when the film was released, everybody got a giggle out of it. 'Look, another ridiculous Hollywood movie about Japan. Japanese with blue eyes, can't even get the Kimono correct...'

The funny thing is, Geisha culture is still alive and strong! All they had to do was hire JAPANESE advisers and they could have got all this stuff correct. Oh, that's right, they DID hire some Japanese advisers and after the director just IGNORED all of their advice, they quit!

This movie is a joke, and the story itself along with the ins and outs of making it show how far Hollywood still has to go in terms of cultural awareness and respect.

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[deleted]

Japan's pretty famous for being widely perceived as Xenophobic, especially towards other Asian ethnicity's.

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That wasn't particularly culturally sensitive yourself or at all tasteful. But I do agree excel99's criticism seems hypocritical given Japan isn't exactly well known for being culturally sensitive itself.

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How is it "culturally insensitive" to say something true? Oh wait, you wouldn't be one of these left wing, politically correct morons would you? (Was that lacking is taste?)




Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bull before

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"True?" Which part of the movie do you think is "true" (or more to my point, "accurate")?

Do you know the first thing about Japan? If you consider any part of this film to be "true" in any way, obviously, you don't.

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So, we can count an inability to comprehend what you've read as one of your failings. I suggest you go back, read through the exchange, and you just might understand how stupid your last post was.




Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bull before

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Ok, I get it. You were responding to someone else.

But let's talk about stupid, shall we...

Roughly 200,000 non-combatants killed in indiscriminate terror attacks on Nagasaki and Hiroshima, clearly the worst "war crime" in history, and you're proud of it?

Now that's stupid...

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So, having lost the first point, you want to move the goal posts now. Is that right? Fine. I'll play.

Japan issued a formal declaration of war (after a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor). It did so as the legal authority over the Japanese people. Japan demonstrated its callous disregard for civilians throughout Asia during the years it occupied other countries; Nanking, The Philippines and others. It used terror tactics against civilian targets as a measured form of warfare. The dropping of the bombs on two civilian Japanese targets accomplished two important goals.

One, it demoralized the Japanese populace, which stratagists estimated would have effectively killed one million American troops in an invasion. The Japanese people were sworn to take up arms against an invasion so this was a reasonable and likely accurate estimate. Two, it showed the utter futility of the Japanese military to continue to wage war.

All in all, the dropping of the bombs saved FAR more lives, both American and Japanese, than it cost. At horrible cost, it taught the Japanese the futility of continuing hostilities. It was not a terrorist attack. No attack against an enemy that attacked you without a declaration of war, but then declared it after the attack, can be rightfully called terrorist.

You are free to interpret history as you will; to judge it and to condemn it. But you are not free to make up your own facts. and to ultimately answer your question, as my own father would have very likely been in the invasion of the Japanese mainland, yes, I 100% support the dropping of the bombs.





Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bull before

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You offer up the same old lies and propaganda. Also, the fact that the bombings spared your father from invading Japan (whether such an invasion was even necessary) is immaterial from a moral perspective. A war crime is a war crime, regardless of who benefits.

Japan issued a formal declaration of war (after a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor). It did so as the legal authority over the Japanese people.
Yes, Japan was the aggressor. Yes, Japan was in the wrong. This DOES NOT justify war crimes in retaliation. The Germans often burned villages or killed civilians as retribution for attacks on its troops. The people responsible for these acts were later tried and executed for war crimes. War itself does NOT allow one side to do whatever it wants.
Japan demonstrated its callous disregard for civilians throughout Asia during the years it occupied other countries; Nanking, The Philippines and others. It used terror tactics against civilian targets as a measured form of warfare.
All true, all despicable acts.

Nevertheless, these facts DO NOT justify war crimes in retaliation. Case in point, US Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara told the story about a discussion he had with General Curtis LeMay when the order was given to drop the bombs. He said, "[LeMay said] 'If we'd lost the war, we'd all have been prosecuted as war criminals.' And I think he's right. He, and I'd, say we were behaving as war criminals. LeMay recognized that what he was doing would be thought immoral if his side had lost. But what makes it immoral if you lose and not immoral if you win?" The top brass of the US Army itself KNEW that they were committing war crimes! They did it anyway because they knew they would win and get away with it.

During the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal, Judge Radha Binod Pal of India refused to classify Japanese crimes as unique, insisting that the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the CLEAREST examples of war crimes during the war, and that failure to prosecute US officials showed the Tribunal had no moral authority.

Ironically, you point out that the Japanese often used terror against civilians throughout Asia. Do you want to guess what happened to the people caught responsible for such acts? THEY WERE CONVICTED OF WAR CRIMES AND, IN MANY CASES, EXECUTED.
One, it demoralized the Japanese populace, which stratagists estimated would have effectively killed one million American troops in an invasion. The Japanese people were sworn to take up arms against an invasion so this was a reasonable and likely accurate estimate.
One million American troops...

A widely repeated number. Where does it come from? How accurate an assessment is it? Let's see.

The Joint War Plans Committee, in its initial assessment, put the number of expected casualties at roughly 250,000. TRUMAN'S OWN STAFF LATER ADDED 'up to 1 million' to make the document match off-hand remarks previously made by Truman. Later, the Joint War Plans Committee estimated the number at 40,000 based on the effectiveness of the naval blockade of Japan. THIS IS THE NUMBER THE US MILITARY WAS BASING IT'S DECISION ON AT THE TIME OF THE BOMBING. The 'one million US troops' number is pure propaganda, nothing more.

Regardless, General Eisenhower, Fleet Admiral Nimitz and Fleet Admiral Leahy ALL felt the bombings were COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY for saving US lives:

Dwight D. Eisenhower wrote in his memoir The White House Years:

"In 1945 Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives."

Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet:

"The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace. The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan."

Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy, Chief of Staff to President Truman:

"The use of [the atomic bombs] at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons..."

Even General MacArthur disagreed with the necessity of the atomic bombings!

JAPAN HAD ALREADY OFFERED TO SURRENDER WITH ONE CONDITION; THAT THE EMPEROR BE ALLOWED TO REMAIN ON THE THROWN. THE US REJECTED THIS, BOMBED JAPAN, THEN ALLOWED THE EMPEROR TO REMAIN ON THE THROWN! NO US INVASION WAS EVER NECESSARY!
It was not a terrorist attack. No attack against an enemy that attacked you without a declaration of war, but then declared it after the attack, can be rightfully called terrorist.
Your naive definition aside, it definitely WAS a terrorist attack. Under the most simple and neutral definition, terrorism is "the targeting of innocents to achieve a political goal". Hiroshima is a CLASSIC example of this. The fact that it happened in war does not justify it; many Germans and Japanese were hanged for committing "acts of terror" during the war. They argued war justified such acts; their arguments were rejected and they were executed. The fact that US officials (including President Truman) avoided such consequences is NOT proof of their guiltlessness; it's just proof of victor's justice.
You are free to interpret history as you will; to judge it and to condemn it. But you are not free to make up your own facts.
I have presented FACTS in support of my arguments; you have presented NONE AT ALL. Only regurgitated propaganda and a flimsy emotional appeal that it helped out your father. I'm glad your father survived the war, but that's merely a rationalization on your part. The bombings were still war crimes and acts of state-terror.

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Whatever floats your boat.

the bottom line is, we DID drop the bombs. We DID win the war. We DID strip the emperor of his powers. We DID destroy Bushido philosophy. We DID destroy Japans ability to make war. We DID everything we set out to do.

Your 'facts' are mere opinions. The 'lies' you accuse me of ARE facts.

You go right on being an idiot ignorant liberals douche and deny reality. I don't give a crap how many quotes you cut and paste. You use no reference so they're meaningless. All that matters is reality and the reality is that you're an ignorant little f^ck. I'm done wasting time with an ignorant little f^ck.



Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bull before

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Nice logical argument...

The atom bombings were war crimes. The fact that the US 'got away with it' won't change that.

Nor will your flawed logic and hissy fits...

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I see where you're making your mistake. You think I give a damn.



Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bull before

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Can we ease up guys? The war's over.

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etc. etc. etc....I have presented FACTS in support of my arguments

Jiminy Christmas...

TLDR


.

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......?

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Hey Jaguar_001, Missing_Feeling and Sugarandice,

Nice try, but I'm an American...

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[strike]I never said anything regarding where you are from.[/strike]

Edit: Whoops, totally misinterpreted your post, I believe.

So? There are a ton of non-Japanese in Japan, that doesn't change the fact that Japan is known for its xenophobic and racist history, history which dates back less than 100 years ago.

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So?

What does this have to do with my post regarding the film? This film is inaccurate and culturally insensitive, and neither my heritage nor Japanese history changes that fact.

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IA, the production of this film is beautiful.

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[deleted]

I am still shocked that it won Oscars for Best Costume Design and Art Direction. The Kimonos certainly left something to be desired and the art direction was bland and boring.I will forgive other flaws in a film if it is at least visually impressive.Yes, I am that shallow.

"I say,open this door at once! We're British !"

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[deleted]

According to the trivia no japanese actors/actresses turned up to the open casting call.

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If this is true, how can anyone fault Hollywood for this? Besides this is the US, they do not have the same pool of Japanese actresses as they do in Japan. They tried, what more can you ask from them?

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Nothing. They did what they could. This movie was well recieved.

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As someone who is good at studying facial morphology the main actress looks extremely Chinese. Very out of place with the story. I have no idea why a Japanese actress was not considered.

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"studying facial morphology"
ahahaha!

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