MovieChat Forums > Pusher II (2004) Discussion > I was a bit disappointed....

I was a bit disappointed....

posted 18 years ago by stupid_fresh
6 replies | jump to latest

This film had scenes that were very powerful, and it still lingers in your mind for a few days afterwards, but I don't think it matches up to the first Pusher, and certainly it's not as emotionally affecting as the third.

I'm not sure why I can't relate to this film as much as the others - I think that one reason is that it doesn't hook you in quite as much, as it seemingly lacks the narrative drive of the others - the first taking place over a week, the third taking place over a day - and takes place over an indeterminate timescale.

I also found parts of it rather unbelievable: to choose one example, the constant b_itching from the baby momma and the friend's new wife at the end - why did the new bride curse him for her nosebleed? It seemed like a device to make Tonny more sympathetic, and to justify his stealing of the baby. It just didn't ring true to me as much as the other two films.

I seem to be in the minority though!

"Now he's gawn and twisted them bars as if they was cheese!!"

[–] bezdancing 17 years ago

Well I actually found this film a tad more mature than Pusher and maybe a little bit better thought out. That is not to say that Pusher did not have it's merits, indeed it is a fine film and in many respects superior to Pusher II. Anyway, the scene that you refer to I found quite realistic. As an ex poly drug user, with my drug of choice being cocaine and crack, I could very much relate to the babblings of the mothers friend. I have seen friends (and no doubt friends have seen me) babling incoherently in the deepest depths of a four day coke binge.
We see throughout the film Tonny being emasculated by almost everyone around him, even the women are not afraid to snipe at him. The women live in a world of masculinity and not your ordinary shows of machismo, the men really are dangerous. We can therefore assume that some of the venom is not directed at Tonny himself but rather as a subtle power cu for their own purposes. Secondly Tonny had tried to strangle the bride’s friend (Tonnys babies mum) earlier in the film. No doubt this would have set a tone of aggression throughout the cocaine binge. We can further postulate that if Tonny had been a ‘hard man’ then the women would not have acted this way, even under the influence of cocaine and alcohol. Could you really see them spouting off in the same way to The Duke? I think that the scene illustrated particularly well Tonny's social standing within the ranks of that organisation.
However, with the films conclusion I felt that Tonny was the strongest willed character in the film, not only is he the only person to stand up to The Duke (he even shows some rebellion very early on in the film) but he has the strength of character to want a better life for his son (note the other characters smoking over their babies through most of the film). I maybe prejudice as I found that I could easily relate to Tonny, myself leaving a life of drugs and crime for the sake of my oldest son, however I don't think that my potential bias prevents me from analysing the film for what it is. I am eagerly anticipating watching Pusher 3, hopefully it will arrive in the morning!

[–] lovejoy05 17 years ago

Yeah, I can definitely relate. I'm mostly a drug tourist when I binge in Europe, coke's usually better in the caribbean so i prefer czech meth. I have to add that life in Europe is a bit different than in the states, so comparing what is portrayed in the states as drug abuse is different overseas. The smoking around the baby is pretty typical in Europe. Hell, in Ireland I saw plenty of pregnant moms puffing away like there was no tomorrow. Even having a little kid in a bar where you have a stripper is totally normal, as seen in towards the end. Personally I'm surprised that Charlotte had the baby, being the slut that she was claimed to be, but that established a big theme in the movie, placing Tonny into the role of a father. For all the rage he went through in the movie, I was surprised he didn't go through killing Duke's ex who wanted to take his son. Also when Kurt dumped the heroin in the toilet after a short knock on the door seemed a bit much given that nobody else was even hesitant. And then asking for the money back from Milo was just too much. Also, I didn't comprehend why Tonny became responsible for Kurt's debt, spending Duke's money and then flushing away the heroin. Tonny was just there to watch his back, I can't see anyone placing blame on him for just being a bystander. Anyways, its a great film and these few comments are just a personal thought on the movie.

[–] masurra 17 years ago

awesome scene at the hotel meeting with Milo, Kusse was an idiot and Milo pwned him

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Precaseptica 15 years ago

@lovejoy05

You're attempting to force a logic onto the story that suits your own reality.

You need to accept that these people live in a very different world than you. Where drugs make them do illogical things, the stress associated with their addictions and failures make them do illogical things, and the paranoia and desperation their lives send them into make them do illogical things.

What rage does Tonny go through? He's shown as a hurt animal trying to live up to his fathers expectations. In none of the scenes shown Tonny goes on a rage. When he ends up killing his father in the end, it makes perfect sense because he finally realises he can never become what his father wanted him to be. I understand it perfectly well.

When Kurt dumps the heroin into the toilet that makes perfect sense. He's obviously in a state of paranoia. He has to deal with accepting a lower quality product, that already puts him at risk to his boss. And when the knock on the door indicates, in his mind, that police is crashing the party, he's flushing away the evidence. It makes sense to me, given that I put myself in his position.

Tonny is not responsible for Kurt's debt. He's responsible for no debt, except for the 3000 kroner we hear at the start. Kurt tried to force his debt onto Tonny as an act of desperation. And when Kurt fled, Tonny's father made a quick decision to let Kurt's problem become his sons problem. Tonny never told his father the truth about any of Kurt's actions, so all he knew was that he didnt feel Tonny was telling the truth. Again, I understand this situation, given that I put myself in Tonny's position as breaking from his fathers will to try and make a living for his son, and his fathers position as trying to punish his son for lying to him.

You should watch the film again and try to sensibly argue what you would do if you were hung over and high on cocaine on an every day basis, and then forced into a similar situation where everyone you ever knew forced expectations onto you and expected unreasonable things from you. As you see Tonny can't get an erection anymore because of his abuse.

[–] terrytsilvester 8 years ago

I think this is my favourite of the three.