MovieChat Forums > North Country (2005) Discussion > This movie outrages me..

This movie outrages me..

posted 17 years ago by willmarryewan
64 replies | jump to latest

And not just in the way the women were treated, but in the way that Josie allows those men to talk to her and do things to her. Women aren't helpless. Yeah, I believe she does try and make a difference, and obviously she did, but there are several parts in this film that completely infuriate me.

For example, the scene where she goes to the main company leader and tries to report all the mishaps and her boss tells her that if she wants to help herself she needs to "spend less time trying to rile up her female coworkers and less time in the beds of her married male coworkers and more tim trying to inprove her job performance."

Uh, what? She just looks completely helpless. If a person said that to me and it wasn't true, I would stand up for myself and say SOMETHING. She just packs up her bag and leaves.

Another example, when that woman at the hocket game accuses her of trying to sleep with her husband, she just stands there and takes it!

I don't understand why she never stands up for herself! I absolutely do not think she deserves any of the things that happen to her or her family, but when she doesn't make it known that it is NOT acceptable for those men to speak to her like that or grab and touch her, I have a little less sympathy for her.

Women are not helpless, insubordinate, or inferior to men. Woman are equally as human and this movie makes a poor representation of that idea.

[–] krystieeee 17 years ago

Those women <i>couldn't</i> do anything about it, because they NEEDED the job to pay the bills, feed the family, make a living, etc. They couldn't quit just like that. One of the women This movie is not trying to portray women as "helpless", "insubordinate", or "inferior" to men. In fact, it was trying to do the exact opposite. It was about women overcoming and persevering.

[–] willmarryewan 17 years ago

Regardless of the fact that these women needed the job, it is possible to stand up for yourself without getting yourself fired.

Like the scene I mentioned at the hockey game. Anything Josie would have said to that woman would not have gotten her fired.

They COULD say something, anything, but they just sat there and let things happen to them.

[–] istore01 17 years ago

I'd have to agree. There was a lot of situations in the film where I thought it was stupid that Josie didn't stand up for herself. Especially at the hockey game. I mean she could of put that crazy wife in her place, instead she makes herself look like a lunatic outside.

[–] kraprincess10 17 years ago

yea i agree she couldve said sumthin but not all women r lik u dat cud stand up 4demselves theres alot of women out there dat r scared n dont hav da courage 2 stand up 4 dem saelves...

[–] luciddream69 17 years ago

kraprincess, please for the love of god learn how to spell, anyway. I just finished this movie and found it insanely boring, slow moving movie, but it's not all bad, the story boils the blood and all, but still, b-o-r-i-n-g.

[–] gayspiritwarrior 12 years ago

The point isn't whether you, with over 20 years of hindsight and the change in attitudes, think those women could have done something. The point is they didn't think they could. You can't judge the past by the present.

"The value of an idea has nothing to do with the honesty of the man expressing it."--Oscar Wilde

[–] groovyroom 8 years ago

Very good point.

[–] vschuster 12 years ago

Are you a woman or a man? I cannot tell by your message board name. I think you are a woman, but if you are a man, then you have no idea what it is to be a woman!

I have been in many situations where I needed my job to pay my bills and have been bullied and (not sexually harrassed) teased and picked on and I went to managment. They looked at me like I was a trouble maker.....

Some employers go to bat for some employees. You just have to work for the right employer. Some of us are not so lucky. Especially in a big company of a few hundered employees. Managements job is to ensure you are doing your job so that their company makes nomey and not to deal with personnel problems. That doesn't make them money........

So, I don't know what to say, except you must work for a good company. I don't. I'm stuck. I totally know what she went through.

[–] s_number9999 17 years ago

Woody gave one of his best performances in this movie - I was reallt taken back - It's been a while since he was that good -

[–] Brisk317 17 years ago

It's easy for you to sit at home and say she's not standing up for herself, but until you've actually been in that situation, then you really don't know what you're talking about. You're in a town where everyone hates you, your father doesn't approve of you, you have two kids to feed while you try and pay a mortgage on your own, and these guys harrassing her aren't the same kind of guys you would find in a typical workplace, I don't think you're going to find male co-workers in a advertising firm jerking off on female colthes or writing with poop on the walls. It's easy to seem tough when you're already living in comfort.

[–] Yinky 17 years ago

I don't know, I've been called names before and why, I always told the name-caller to F-off. I know dealing with the company's president is another story, but the lady at the hockey game? Pffft. Josie's got enough guts to stand up in a union hall in front of a couple hundred men who think she is absolutely full of crap and speak her mind, etc., but some woman at a hockey game accuses of her of something she's never done, and she gets all victimized and helpless? Come ON.

[–] k-angus 17 years ago

Um don't forget that in these days you just got fired. You didn't get warnings like you do today, then written warnings, and all that *beep* You just got fired. No choice.

[–] Kassi_Nova 12 years ago

In the 80s, working women were mercilessly sexually harassed and didn't have laws in place the way they do now to protect them from that treatment, and because there weren't laws back then, a lot of men were not shy about their sexual harassment and abuse of women.
The movie is about how it took a wave of class-action lawsuits across the world to change the perception of women's rights, and change the treatment women received. A lot of women forget that back then, we would not have had the freedom to stand up for ourselves without fear of retaliation, as depicted in this film. Women who talked back were raped, beaten, sometimes murdered.
Don't condemn the women who went through so much worse than we do now, and fought for the freedoms and rights we do have now. Celebrate them and honor them by continuing the battle they started.

Kд§$ị (ИσvΔ)

[–] curlywoobwoob 16 years ago

brisk317, you took the words right outta my mouth. right on.

[–] kkamolz417 17 years ago

You're obviously not from the Midwest. It's kind of like going back about 20 years in women's rights. Although not as bad as what goes on in the movie, for example, a car dealership would not sell my mom a car unless they had "her husband's permission".

[–] Yinky 17 years ago

Don't know about anyone else, but I'm from Michigan. I doubt I'd mouth off to my boss, but anyone accusing me of shagging her husband at a hockey game gets a platform boot btwn the eyes.

[–] willmarryewan 17 years ago

Exactly. I agree.

In regards to my boss: depending on the situation, for example the situation Josie is in where she needs a job to provide for her children, I might not mouth off. But if a man expressed to me that he thought I was a slut without having proper evidence that I was, I wouldn't take that sitting down, regardless if he has to power to terminate me.

The reason I dislike this movie is that she bitches and moans about how the men treat her but does nothing to stand up for herself. I'm not saying it's right that she was raped or sexually harrassed, but I don't feel bad for her when she lets those men say those things to her.

I suppose it comes down to different personalities, but I'd rather work at McDonalds and get paid crap than allow myself to be treated like someone personal sex toy.

[–] Verade 17 years ago

I suppose it comes down to different personalities, but I'd rather work at McDonalds and get paid crap than allow myself to be treated like someone personal sex toy.

What? Were you not paying attention during the movie? She DID quit the job because of the way she was being treated. Even more, she sued the company. I believe that's quite a bit braver than just quitting and going off to flip hamburgers in McD's. Also, it's convenient to simply throw your opinion everywhere without accepting any decent criticism. How can someone be expected to have as much self-esteem and self-respect as you seem to expect when they've been raped, beaten, hated by family, and abused by coworkers? My God, give the girl a break. It's hard to stand up for yourself when there's no one backing you up.

It's easy for you to sit at home and say she's not standing up for herself, but until you've actually been in that situation, then you really don't know what you're talking about. You're in a town where everyone hates you, your father doesn't approve of you, you have two kids to feed while you try and pay a mortgage on your own, and these guys harrassing her aren't the same kind of guys you would find in a typical workplace, I don't think you're going to find male co-workers in a advertising firm jerking off on female colthes or writing with poop on the walls. It's easy to seem tough when you're already living in comfort.

Amen.

[–] musicals_liveon 17 years ago

ok.
i love this film and think it is very accurate regarding the true story, despite i do not know a great detail of the actual case.
but with refernce to your statement of women are not helpless and that Josie allowed the men to treat her like i that i think is a very one-sided comment.
a woman working in a occupation which is 85% upwards dominated by males, more so than today, it is very hard for her to voice up. i mean if she had, like so in the film, the MALE employers would not have beileved her or say you have to forget about it both for the rep of the company and that it takes too much time and money to sort these things out. i think people have to take into consideration, yes the cultural, but mainly the historical, sociological aspects - the way the sociery is organized! In that time, in that institution, women had little or now power as seen by the sexual harrassment. the society did not allow then to voice up and we clearly see that in the film. her mum understands but her dad and other men are shocked coz, although known about, this issue was not confronted often let alone dealth with in such a manner.

[–] ntfrenk 17 years ago

You are so right about looking back 20 years, and not only to the Midwest! I had forgotten (or repressed) the misogynistic representation of women in movies in the 70s, but this film brought it all back. It reminded me how far we have come as working women.

[–] evan_harvey 17 years ago

Taking the story as presented in the movie, this was a woman who was beaten by her husband and you're busting her chops for not standing up for herself? While I agree that some of the scenes did present her in the way you state, I think that your righteous anger is a bit misdirected.

[–] Yinky 17 years ago

If she was so "beaten down" then why would she instigate the lawsuit? She can sue a company for ten years, but she can't tell some loudmouthed b*tch at a hockey game to shut up?

[–] willmarryewan 17 years ago

Yes! I totally agree. Thank you!

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] slayer15z 17 years ago

So you are just like all the guys in the movie who believe that the women shoudn't be in the mines. Very enlightened opinion there. Women deserve the same opportunities in the work force that men do. If the men hadn't been harrassing the women the way they did then the women could have been more productive employees and quality wouldn't have had to suffer. How are you supposed to be able to do a good job when your coworkers are pawing and insulting you? So their animosity at the female coworkers was justified? PLEASE!!! So women should just "know their place," right? Grow up and step into the 21st century. About your Tarantino analogy, it's not really applicable. You don't need a penis to work in a mine. However, you should probably have a penis to play a male role in a movie.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] slayer15z 17 years ago

Oh and what's really funny, your flawed logic is actually pointed out in the script.

Lawyer: If she gets any other women, they'll
get their class and you'll lose this case.

Boss: Leslie, why do you think I hired you?
Because you're the smartest lawyer
I could find?
No. I hired you because you were
the smartest woman lawyer I could find.
But if you're getting soft,
I need to know now.

Lawyer: I'm not soft.
But I am pragmatic.

Boss: Do the Minnesota Vikings...
...have to put a girl in at quarterback?

Lawyer: Of course not.

Boss:Some things are for men
and some things are for women.
Mining is men's work.

Lawyer:Like lawyering.

Boss: See, a man would never
say something like that.
Women take everything too personally.

Lawyer: You're gonna take it personally
if she wins.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] talvari737 16 years ago

You know, there is a perfectly good reason for her not to mouth off to the woman at the hockey game. Maybe she didnt want to make more of a scene. Maybe, momentarily, she just wanted to give up. Just because someone is brave doesn't mean they can't show moments of weakness, or they can't want to just give up.Courage isn't the absence of fear, but is the presence of fear and the willingness to go on.

I used to be picked on a lot by my older siblings, and I am by no means a person to give up easily, or to allow people to beat on me. But sometimes, I just didn't have the energy to deal with them, and I ignored them, or just didn't rise to their teasing.

[–] zappa333 17 years ago

They did make the woman really vulnerable.

I wonder if it was true representation.

Might not be.

Good film .

[–] sunshine4791 17 years ago

For the time frame that the movie is portrayed as, she didn't do anything 'wrong/right' or any of the above.

Women weren't 'supposed' to be taking mens jobs as such. Yes she was trying to take care of her family (and working at McD's would NOT have bought her the house and daycare for the kids or whatever, so just 'cause she 'could' have done that doesn't mean she really could.).

I'd like to have seen those of you that are saying 'why didn't she stand up to the wench and tell her what for, that's what i'd have done' actually do that.

During that time period, women weren't outspoken and brazen and loud like they are today. I have no doubt that if many of us were in that situation today we too would NOT have gotten mouthy about it at the time either.

I 'm just glad Josey had the courage TO get the suit started and took down the sons of wenches and all the 'truth' came out and it was a (relatively) happy ending. My husband had watched it and told me I'd like the movie. I was outraged and crying in anger at several points, but would agree at the end it was a good portrayal of the situations AS THEY HAPPENED IN THAT TIME FRAME.

It's real easy to look at a movie or whatever and say "oh come on...I would've done 'xxx'"...but I'm willing to bet most of you that say that would NOT have had near the guts that she did in the movie.

[–] willmarryewan 17 years ago

What time period are you talking about there, 'cause in the 1988 when the story is portrayed. You don't think would were outspoken in the 1980's?

There's no excuse for letting someone treat you like a sexual plaything - either you take it and I don't like you, or you stand up for yourself and TRY. Josie annoyed the hell out of me.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] eaten_peppermint 17 years ago

I think it's a bit easier to criticize these women's actions NOW because so much has changed.

I think back then, it's a bit harder and while they may have wanted to do more then they did, it WAS hard because as a woman, you couldn't just go and throw away a job like that -- especially considering the town they lived in.

Sometimes, you have to do the things you hate so that you can survive to fight another day.

[–] Yinky 17 years ago

I agree. If you give in and let it get to you, they win. What was wrong with the way Frances McDormand's character handled it? I think if you let them know it bothers you, it'll just get worse.

Actually, during the time that this story took place, I was a twenty-two year old, attractive, white girl in the USMC. Sexual harassment was not only SOP, it was so frequent I grew bored trying to fight it. I wish I had a nickel for every time I was physically groped, or "talked dirty" to. When this crap would happen, not only would I yell my head off, but a couple times I actually physically assaulted my assailant. (You'd be surprised how effective a well-placed "overcompensating for masculine SHORTcomings" can be.) If ever I tried to complain to superior officers, I was told, basically, to go make some coffee. That it was my own fault for joining the Marine Corps, which only let women in because they "had to." I was told, "Oh, come on, you loved every minute of it." I was told I shouldn't be "shaking my a**" in front of all those men in the first place (how one shakes one's a** in military fatigues, I still haven't figured out). Etc. Etc. Etc. And it being the military, I couldn't just quit and get a job at McDonald's. I had an obligation to be there or I would be literally imprisoned. But I would be damned before I would let them convince me that all of their crap was somehow my fault.

So I didn't cry, I didn't whine, I didn't ball myself into the fetal position and sob. I spoke up and gained a reputation as being someone they couldn't *beep* with. And after a while, they left me alone. True, I didn't have any friends. But I didn't have to tell people I was raped in high school to get them to back off, either.

I don't agree that women SHOULD have to put up with sexual harrassment--not by a long shot--or that they should not be entitled to equal work/equal pay. I think that the real woman who sued the mining company did the right thing, and it took guts. But the whole helpless-damsel-in-distree character of Josie was ridiculous. At the least, her character was inconsistant. Anyway, my point is, I survived similar treatment in an environment from which I literally could NOT escape, couldn't sue, couldn't do anything but endure and bide my time. But I also didn't insist that people feel sorry for me by playing the victim.

[–] MTulliver 17 years ago

It may be "frustrating" to you, but I think it's realistic. Sometimes women *don't* speak up. That doesn't mean they deserve the treatment or that they are wimpy or anything like that. Maybe it means that they are just AMAZED that someone would treat them like that that they're in a state of shock. Maybe they are afraid of retailation should they speak up.
People don't handle things the same way, that doesn't mean that the movie didn't show women as "helpless, insubordinate, or inferior to men."
I've been groped, etc. before and didn't speak up b/c I was, honestly, so freaked out by the whole thing, that I didn't know what to do! Some people aren't outspoken or loud, no matter what.

To the person who thought she should have spoken up at the hockey game...
a. she was probably shocked by the woman's allegations and didn't know what to say
b. her son was there. She was probably so mortified that she was speechless.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Yinky 16 years ago

"...More blaming the victim." ? Um, no, don't agree. But it does make sense that possibly she was just freaked out by it. Still...it's a movie, and it's melodramatic, and by design the viewer is supposed to feel anger and compassion for Josie. So, that said, I think the hockey scene was there to further demonstrate her as the helpless damsel-in-distress.