MovieChat Forums > Simon (2004) Discussion > Overrated, over the top and too many fla...

Overrated, over the top and too many flaws.

posted 18 years ago by DaveLebowski
16 replies | jump to latest

I had heard great things about this film, but was disappointed in the end. I am Dutch, and therefore I think I can say that the acting and writing is way over the top. I think this may not be visible to non-Dutch speakers, cause a lot gets lost in translation.

This is especially noticable in the first half of the movie some: too much use of foul lanuguage. The girl with eye-patch is constantly cussed at, and nobody wonders about this. She herself did a terrible acting job by the way.

There were some other things that didn't sit right with me: Camiel hasn't seen Simon for 14 years, but suddenly they are best friends again. He is the guy who guys to the doctor and Thailand with Simon, instead of those other friends who were with him all the time - even before Camiel was present. Just not very believable. Also, the adoption of the 2 kids was decided overnight. At one point, we see the gay couple discuss it, not making a decision, and the next scene it is all said and done! Bram initially disapproves of the friendship with Simon, 10 minutes later he is adopting his kids! Hmmm, I don 't think so.

And who the hell casted Nadja Hüpscher as the daughter?! She is supposed to be 17/18 years old, while she was actually 32 at the time!! And it is visible too. Incredible, I can not imagine that this casting director is ever hired again.

The film has a few good things in it, such as the acting of the 2 main characters. But the writing and and some plot turns are just sub-par. Let´s face it: the high rating it gets on IMDB is due to the fact that is touches a controversial subject. And because the main character deals so good with his illness, viewers are touched and mistake their emotions for watching a great movie. I call this the ´Shawshank Redemption´ factor (listed 2 on the IMDB 250, totally undeserved). If you want to see a good movie about euthanisia, watch ´Mar adentro´. Much more realistic and subtle.

[–] vriesde 18 years ago

*sigh* You must be kidding to think that Simon is a realistic movie. Since when must a comedy be realistic? Yeah, at the end turns the comedy part into drama. But still: Simon and realistic? Get real! Didn't you read anything about Simon at all? What a crap to say that "the high rating is due to the fact that is touches a controversial subject". Here in the Netherlands it isn't that controversial at all.

I have one quenstion for you: are you really Dutch???

[–] DaveLebowski 18 years ago

Ja ik ben Nederlands, maar ik ga verder in het Engels omdat de voertaal op IMDB Engels is. Niet overtuigd van mijn Nederlands-heid? Misschien nu wel: HEMA-worst, woensdag gehaktdag, Studio Sport om 19:00 met het bord op schoot. Bedankt voor je reactie, maar kinderachtig om te denken dat ik hier de boel belazer om meer geloofwaardigheid aan mijn 'post' mee te geven.

Surely a comedy can be over-the-top, but I doubt that the makers of this film were trying to create such a film. Obviously Simon is first a drama and secondly a comedy. What should I have read then, in order to give me the insight I obviously have missed?

Furthermore - yes, the film does have a high rating due to its controversial subject. I think the subject is still controversial in the Netherlands, but it surely is in the rest of the world. And as the rating on IMDB is for at least 99% based on non-Dutch voters, so mostly voters who DO find this subject controversial.

[–] vriesde 18 years ago

Well, he didn't say a nice thing in Dutch. He said that he thinks it's infantile to think that he didn't wrote the thruth to give his 'post' more credibility (and I translated it nicer).

Read as example this: http://www.8weekly.nl/index.php?art=1869 (it's in Dutch).
You can use a searchmachine to read other things.

The subject isn't that controversial in the Netherlands. For thank goodness, you can talk about these subjects with, for example, your relatives and friends without they condemn you immediately. At least, if religion isn't an isseu. And no, it's not that obvious for the rest for the world. And I didn't say that at all in my last post.

It's a good right not to like this movie, but if you live in the Netherlands you must at least understand where this movie stands for. And I said you didn't get the message. That's possible, but I think it's a bit strange and that's why asked you (sarcastic) if you are Dutch.

[–] qwe-2 18 years ago

99% non Dutch voters?????? Are you kidding. I would say 99% DUTCH voters. The film already had this unbelievably high ratings (see the ridicously high amount of given 10's) when it was only possible to have seen it in Holland.

[–] Friedrich von Glower 18 years ago

You're right that the movie has some flaws, but the main story still stands as a rock. Yes, it a Dutch movie, so there's a lot of swearing and tits all over the place. But in the southern part of Amsterdam they actually talk like that, not kidding!

BTW: "Shawshank Redemption" is a great movie. Have you even seen it? You're the first one I hear that doesn't like it...

[–] Mr_Brownstone 18 years ago

The foul language is probably one of the most accurate character traits of Simon.

[–] snowbart 18 years ago

The foul language is indeed part of Simon. Just as the lousy (but funny) jokes he makes all the time. It's that characteristics that make Simon such a interesting character. Wonderful acting as well on his part.

@ DaveLebowski: I think most of the 'flaws' you name are leaps in time which are necessary to keep the story going.

The only thing I wonder if they didn't try to make this movie too Dutch.

(Spoiler warning!!!)

You've got a marihuana-dealer which gets a unemployment benefit, gay marriage, half-naked women all over the place, usage of soft drugs, quite a lot of swearing and last but not least, the too loud sounds when Camille is jogging back home. All the characteristics which made Dutch movies always so recognizable are in this movie. Isn't it over the top?

[–] rob_greatest 18 years ago

Agree with you on Mar Adentro, which is more subtle and realistic but that's probably because it was based on a true story. I'm not sure whether Simon is based on a true story, is it?
I probably would compare Simon to The Barbarian Invasions, dealing with a similar subject. All three movies are very interesting and thought they were excellent.

[–] DNRchist 18 years ago

You're such a whiner! It's very clear that Simon is from a not very high educated family. So his swearing isn't very strange. I'm Dutch as well, dus daar kun je me niet op pakken ;-)

And you're really talking out of the point of the movie. It tells a very painfull story, though Simon stays positive and makes everybody laugh. I sometimes didn't know whether to laugh or to cry.

"Mar Adentro" is one of the best movies I've seen. Better than "Simon", but it's not that bad a movie as you make it sound.

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[–] pepijnvdeerden 17 years ago

Great movie!!! Diplayes the free Dutch way of life. With the cursing ofcourse. Maybe not realistic... who knows... but personally I don't need realism in a movie. I think it's the main reason people see movies. Because it 'not realistic, and maybe because it could be.
So it touches people... isn't that a quality in a movie??
Again great movie, and (a little) better (but who cares) then Mar adentro. But then again I'm Dutch so you can't blame me

[–] Evelyn-9 17 years ago

I totally agree with Dave about the casting. How can an actress play a daughter when in real life the difference between the father and daughter is only 7 years??? Couldn't they find a genuine Thai-Dutch actress or was it a 'you're my friend so you play in my movie' action. And in 14 years they didn't look a day older ....

[–] Dolehof 17 years ago

Your foul language point and your friendship point don't make sense.

About the foul language, there are pleant of people who talk like that. Maybe not all the time, like Simon, but that is one of his character traits. I've seen more unrealistic character traits in high ranked movies. (e.g how many people do you know who read a bible verse before they shoot somebody ;-)

Also the instant friendship is after 14 years not seeing each other is not that unbelievable. That is how real man solve problems in real friendships. Especially after 14 years, times heals all wounds...

Also you should consider that Simon doesn't have to be completely realistic, it's a fictional movie. And a great one.

[–] mel-o-drama 14 years ago

I agree with jan-273 about the issue of their friendship - for someone to seek out or re-form a bond with an old friend is not an unusual reaction when faced with a life threatening illness. (It happens with women as well)

I am not Dutch so I watched the movie with English subtitles, I'm not sure how much was lost in translation but I thought Simon's irreverent, and at times dark, sense of humour was well done. I even thought a few of the jokes were funny.
The use of "foul language" doesn't bother me ~ I don't know about the Netherlands, but that kind of thing is pretty common in this part of Australia. There are times - in real life and when watching movies - when I feel like shouting "Please go buy a thesaurus!" at script writers/family members/random people on the street, so I can understand your frustration about that DaveLebowski. However, this part:

And because the main character deals so good with his illness, viewers are touched and mistake their emotions for watching a great movie.

What a strange comment to make! You make it sound as if the audience is the victim of some fraud, or tricked into feeling a certain way by the filmmakers ...but isn't that the filmmakers job? To make the viewer care about the characters; what they go through and how they react? Doesn't the audience agree to go along with the story when they choose to watch?

If a movie touches the viewer and elicits an emotional response it has fulfilled its purpose. I agree that it doesn't necessarily make it a "great movie", but it usually makes for a satisfying movie experience. For me that has always been the power of movies and theatre, the ability to manipulate the audiences emotions ~ to make them laugh or cry about people or situations they don't know and might never experience, in a relatively short amount of time.
Personally, I feel more "tricked" when I watch a movie and don't have any emotional attachment or response!

I'm fairly certain that most viewers can decide for themselves whether or not their reactions are "mistaken"!

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