In a movie that is supposed to be about acceptance of peoples differences could they have chosen two more similar cultures? So the white christians learn to accept the other white christians honestly, who cares? Had this been blacks, jews, muslims, gays, or dare I say atheists at our barbecue perhaps an interesting movie could have been made. Unfortunately this was not the case...
shareDid you say why you were offended?
You wrote that the movie was uninteresting and "...who cares?" Are you saying that boring movies offend you?
If not, why not write "This movie bored me..."?
I see you only read what you want to read. This movie did not bore me it offended me. The entire concept is offensive. The basic message of this movie is that mormons learn to accept the differences of baptists. They should not be proud of themselves for this it should be a given. People should accept other people regardless of religous, cultural or ethnic differences. Beyond that, these are very similar groups both mormons and baptists are both forms of christianity. These two groups have more similarities than differences. If they wanted to show true acceptance they should have used less similar ethnic groups.
Regarding your other comment. Instead of just saying why I disliked the movie I tried to give some constructive critcism and give ideas of how they could have made a better movie. I'm sorry you could not understand that. However, you understood little of what I wrote and I don't expect you to understand this.
>I see you only read what you want to read.
No, I only read what you wrote. My experience on Messages Boards has led me to not assign any implications to what I read. I merely asked for clarification.
For instance:
>The entire concept is offensive.
If not for the word "entire", this appears to be a premise which is well supported by your post. However, since "accepting differences" is part of the concept and you are offended by the entire concept ... I hope you can see the confusion.
And while your post clarifies what concept you found offensive, the premise is still misleading.
>So the white christians learn to accept the other white christians honestly, who cares?
I care. Gee, maybe you should go share your ideas in Northern Ireland where two groups of white christians are having a hard time accepting each other.
BTW, does accepting someone with whom you have many similarities not constitute "true" acceptance?
Northern Ireland was an interesting point. However, the conflicts between the protestants and catholics in Northern Ireland and the conflicts between baptists and mormons are not comparable. The issue in Ireland is about the catholics feeling occupied by the protestant settlers from Great Britain. There are hundreds of years of blood on the hands of both sides. Mormons and baptists to the best of my knowledge have no established conflict between them. We do have the luxury of freedom of religon in America, even if it doesn't feel like it sometimes living in Utah.
Regarding the comment about true acceptance. If the people in question are so similar what exactly are they accepting? I guess two similar people getting along is nice but it's nothing extraordinary.
Regarding the "confusion", I guess you're not a read between the lines kind of guy. I'll spell things out for you in the future.
To my new friend...
I feel no shame...sorry. O, and what's a shread you stupid B-TCH???
malkovich>...the conflicts between the protestants and catholics in Northern Ireland and the conflicts between baptists and mormons are not comparable.
glancees> I would say they are comparable, but are of a different magnitude. And differences in magnitude demands different solutions.
m>If the people in question are so similar what exactly are they accepting?
g>My first response was that true acceptance is accepting all that a person is - defects and all (even if the "defects" are only perception). Then I thought that they are accepting that the differences don't matter. Then I recalled from the movie when Sister Wingate asks for forgiveness: perhaps one is accepting one's own faults that have blinded them in the past.
I'm glad that you have the expectation that similar people should and do get along.
I want to say that while simple answers (aka quick fixes) rarely solve complex problems, profound truths are often simple.
P.S. Wabby1-1 wrote "shreads," not I. Besides, I believe it's what some people get when you deprive them of a spell-checker.<wink>
I get the impression you attended this movie to rip it to shreads anyway. The question is, Why did you waste your time? If you attended the film not knowing beforehand what it could have been about, then shame on you....You should have figured from the trailers, online information, etc that it would have been a film you would abide by...
I guess some people just like to bitch...
Besides that...Mormonism is pretty far removed from Christianity. If you lump Mormons and Christians together you're really making a mistake. It's not like the difference between Baptists and Church of Christ or something, Mormons have their own entire religion that coopts aspects of Christianity and some of the names, but that's about as far as it goes.
How do you figure that "Mormonism is pretty far removed from Christianity"? Sounds to me like you have a limited knowledge of the topic at hand. Exactly what do Mormons (officially The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints) believe?
I am sure from the way you talk that your knowledge of our beliefs will impress me and many other life long members of this faith.
Christianity and Mormonism are VERY different. If you are a Mormon, and cannot see the key foundational differences, you need to dust off that quad of yours and compare the Holy Bible with your other scriptures.
share"Christianity and Mormonism are VERY different."
So you mean Latter-day Saints (Mormons, as you call us), are not part of Christianity? Uhm, before you tell us what to do, please make sure you know what you're saying first so you won't sound uneducated. Thank you. :)
you offend me by saying that rickert
shareSounds like reality is offensive to you. You must have a difficult time of it whenever you venture outside your door.
The notion that people have a hard time getting along is just REALITY. That is should NOT be so is a wonderful platitude, but it isn't a "given."
That you are "offended" by this is rather exasperating. You sound like one of those innocuous, but dangerous, utopians that believe we can FORCE everyone to get along. Perhaps by legislation or a civil law suit.
Hello! Just because people have the same skin color (ethnic group) doesn't mean their beliefs, culture, values, whatever are the same! Get real! That's like saying the Kennedy family and a family of KKK members are basically the same. I mean they have the same skin color right? Coming from an area of highly populated by Mormons and Baptists, I can vouch, there are some crucial differences. Get offended of something you know what you're talking about or try taking a cultural anthropology class.
shareWell I mean it's a good point, and there are plenty of other movies about acceptance when it comes to race and more "different" cultures or religions, but that doesnt mean that all Christians get along. In fact, a lot of them really don't, especially when it comes to Mormonism, you have a lot of non accepting going on. There is no reason for it to offend you, that there is a movie about Mormons and Baptists getting along. If you think its a terrible movie thats fine but there is no reason why this story SHOULDNT be told. I mean, if your telling people they can't or shouldnt make a movie about two strands of Christianity getting along together, arent YOU being the judegemental and narrowminded one?
In a nutshell, my post is just saying, chill out. You didn't like the movie, thats fine, but there is no reason to get offended over it.
Mormonism is a form of christianity like it or not.
I accept atheists sweiland you moron. I have no problem with atheists. Apparently you have a reading problem. Is english your second language? I was saying that I don't think mormons would accept atheists no matter the circumstance. That is what I meant by dare i say atheists. Good luck in the fourth grade sweiland!!! Cause if you are too stupid to figure out my comment I hope you are only ten.
I am American by the way. Sounds like someone is intolerant of Americans.
Don't blame me I voted for Kerry!!!
Although I think some valid comments have been made, I think one fundamental problem that may need addressing here is that you can't just say "Mormons wouldn't accept atheists" the same a syou can't say "Americans hate muslims" or vice versa. There are some Americans that hate muslims, some love them, and some are somewhere in between. People are people, and have there own biases, like it or not. As a religion, mormons (and here I am obviously saying what the church teaches, not what members do) accept all people and love them for who they are - children of our heavenly father. That is what we believe. Any intolerance or hate stems from a misunderstanding of this, or a persons own faults and imperfections (which we all certainly have!). Where I live (Halifax, Nova scotia, Canada), there are not a lot of mormons (about 1000 in a city of about 300000). There is a lot of religious and cultural diversity, and we respect that, and I enjoy speaking to people of different cultures and religions.
Anyway, I just say this to say that, no matter who the third party was in the movie (baptists, atheists, what have you), I think the concept is still the same. And I must say, it depends who you ask about the mormon-baptist similarities. I think most church members would say we are very similar - as you say, we are both christians, so the focus of our faith is on Christ. However, talk to Baptists (or any other christians) and you may not get the same answer, as other Christian Churches are adamant that we are not Christian! Anyway, I appreciate all of your comments, as it is nice to see different perspectives (although you were a bit hard on poor Sweiland, there, Malkovich! J/K! )
That is very true. The fact is, i've lived in a tiny town in indiana where there are only a handful of mormons and hatred for them is intense. I mean, if you looked up your history, you'd see that hatred for mormons from baptists and other religions have been going on since the LDS church was founded. Many people dont know about that because it is another one of America's embarrasments like the inprisonment of Japanese-Americans in WWII, etc. so they dont teach it in schools. Feuding religions is very real and intense especially in a small town environment.
shareObviously no one here knows anything about Mormons and Baptists.
shareWell, having been Baptist and being a Mormon .... I would say these people do know something. It's amazing how little understanding (and respect) people of different faiths and even different denominations have of each others beliefs. There are a lot of good things in religion and anyone who attempts to help people understand this (despite differences) is providing a helpful service. Generally when we learn from small steps (say differences between Mormans and Baptists) we can take those lessons into the more difficult and bigger problems. So, instead of slamming things around or arguing about who is Christian or how similar/different people are maybe we could start by appreciating that the conversation has started.
shareOh, but some of us do. I was formerly one, and extensively researched the other. For all the similarities and differences, basically most Baptist theology (there are ~65 flavors of Baptist, after all) and related Protestant denominations simply believe the Book of Mormon violates the warning against tinkering with, or adding to the bible. Additionally, there's issues in what constitutes a 'saved' soul, which will always be the big issue that causes religions to split and form new forms.
Anyway, MOST (note I said MOST, *NOT* all) Baptist subgroups consider LDS a cult. They also consider Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholicism cults, too. So, go figure.
I think any movie like this that even delves into the differences serves the purpose of providing information through a comedic vehicle, which is a far better way to learn about another religion than from being preached at from a biased authority figure. Also, there are millions of small town folk that, epending on geography, a person may have lived their entire life without ever *meeting* a person of a markedly different relgion than their own. So, a film that pokes fun at both religions is a good thing for religious understanding. Actually, IMO anything that's not just plain insensitive or purposely malicious is a good thing.
I'll never understand how and why people get so damn "offended" over anything that they disagree with. It's an overused word, sentiment, and perpetuates this victim mentality. Them movie is a harmless flick to poke again, harmless fun at a subject that sorely needs the levity at times. If that, or anything like ito ffends someone, they really need to lighten up. There's so much more in the world that is patently and obviously offensive. Going through life spending even a second of your time and energy being all pouty over such minor things is such a waste of both and a distaction from the truly offensive things out there that actually matter in the grand scheme of things.
my $0.02
Happy holidays, etc.. wouldn't wanna offend anyone.
K
um...sorry if someone else has already said this...most Baptist don't consider Catholicism a cult...they're just a little weirded out about some stuff...like believing mary was with out sin and praying to saints
shareI repeat...
Anyway, MOST (note I said MOST, *NOT* all) Baptist subgroups consider LDS a cult. They also consider Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholicism cults, too. So, go figure.
In response to the original question:
In a movie that is supposed to be about acceptance of peoples differences could they have chosen two more similar cultures?
...
The reason that Baptists were chosen as the feuding religion was because... (drumroll...) it's BASED ON THE BOOK!
The reason THE BOOK was called "Baptists at Our Barbeque" was because... oh, I don't know, maybe because BAPTISTS makes and alliteration when paired with BARBEQUE? I mean, come on, how did such a long thread come out of such a stupid question?
I think malkovich432's original error was assuming that the movie/book was about "acceptance of peoples differences". It's not. It's a humour book, and, I imagine, "comedy" film. No matter how unfunny either may seem to you.
Ugh.
nice
(in other words...GREAT point)
The Serbs and the Croats speak the same language: Serbo-Croatian.
They are ethnically identical, in fact. The ONLY difference is that the Serbs are Orthodox Christians and the Croats are Roman Catholic.
The Protestant and Catholic Irish are also very similar in culture and (of course) ethnicity, yet their religion divides them, even leading to bloodshed.
In short, don't be so quick to judge the extent of "differences" between people. Some of the most radical opponents are those who are very similar but with just enough difference that each finds the other intolerable.
Errrrr, people have got to stop saying the situation in Northern Ireland is a religion problem. It is NOT. On the one hand you have native irish, who happen to be mainly catholic, and on the other hand settlers (settled 17th century onwards), who are of scottish extraction, and happen to be protestant. Nobody gives two figs about religion, the correct divide is republican/loyalist. Calling them catholics/protestants is a handy and outdated misleading shortcut used by the foreign medias.
So, sorry, but bad example :)
Why do people have to have things so blatantly laid out and obvious for it to make sense to them? It is MUCH more a statement to portray two groups and that are similar in so many ways, yet *still* manage to develop animosity toward one another. Its saying that people will look for an excuse to dislike someone, no matter what.
shareI think that people want to read too much into this movie. Yes it would seem to be a movie about people accepting each other and I think it was made funnier by the fact that the two groups disagreeing were so similar. But I have seen worse fights within groups that were entirely similar and they end up splitting off from their original church. If this were not so how could we be having this discussion in the first place? Since there would only be one Christian church. The fact that they could have chosen more dissimilar antagonists is part of the humor in the situation. It is not like the groups portrayed in this town were real at least not as gathered all together in one group. I believe we have all experienced some of these people at sometime. They are just exaggerations of the odd people and attitudes people can get.
I personally just moved to Utah from California and have been dealing with a sort of culture shock I have had to deal with prejudice against a Gay neighbor who has felt afraid to talk to his neighbors because he thought they all hate him not just disagree with his lifestyle and the other non-Mormons are afraid to talk to their Mormon neighbors because they figure if they do the Missionaries will be on the door step the next day.
I even had a cable guy tell me he thought his Mormon customers looked down on him and would discriminate against him because he wasn't Mormon. He may be right I don't know but I was pretty shocked at the idea.
So I hope you can understand that odd things can happen in isolated places that wouldn't happen anywhere else and that should be the offensive idea not that someone would shine the light of comedy on the foibles of Humanity.