Germanic surnames - 36 quai des orfèvres (2004) Discussion

[–] szisoman 14 years ago

Possibly, although the name Klein isn't unfamiliar in France, but verhagen & Vrinks definitely would be considered odd names for frenchmen.

" I am talking about..ethics "

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[–] nickrboyade 14 years ago

Probably an oversight from the casting...
You are right those names sound very germanic.
The problem is not that Germanic names do not exist in France. In fact I would say more than half of French are of Germanic (Specifically frankish/Gothic/ Visigothic) heritage.
But those of "old French" heritage usually have had their germanic name "latinized".

For instance, Clovis and Charlemagne are two typical names that are "french" but which germanic origin was completely different. (Clovis was named "clodovech" I think and Charlemagne "Karl").

Those names really sound like newly arrived "Germanic" immigrants' names.
Not old French - Germanic names.

So, indeed, I believe there is a little oversight there.
Hope you liked my little history lesson ^^

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[–] demut36 14 years ago

Where was the history in that post?

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[–] minuetteg 14 years ago

There are a LOT of Germanic surnames in NE France, especially in Alsace/Lorraine. A lot of French-speaking Belgians also have Dutch surnames (and vice versa) due to intermarriage.

Apparently, 85% of REAL blonds in France are found along it's North-Eastern borders. You have to remember that whole are was occupied by the Germans 3 times between 1871 and 1944, for several years a piece, Alsace/Lorraine were actually annexed by Germany for most of that period, so understandably the Germans left their mark.

Si hoc non legere potes tu asinus es!

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[–] roddycam 14 years ago

Maybe to avoid legal action, since I noticed a dedication at the end of the film to a serving officer killed in action, which, given the police background of the scriptwriters, suggests that the film may have been more true to life than fiction.

It is a long way from the 36 Quai d'Orfevres of my favourite detective, Maigret, who was a moral touchstone.

At the same time this film had me asking whether the means justifies the end, and its shifting morality was in intriguing.

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[–] yurenchu 11 years ago

Although Klein could be a German or Dutch surname, it's also a common Jewish surname. Ever heard of this movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074916/? And even in the US the name occurs rather often.

Vrinks and Verhagen are Flemish/Dutch names (definitely not German though), but as others have already pointed out you may encounter many Flemish or Dutch surnames in French-speaking Belgium and (Northern-)France. A few French celebrities with Dutch/Flemish(-sounding) surnames:

- Patrick Dewaere
- Yves Verhoeven
- Irène Jacob
- Georges Brassens
- Emmanuelle Devos
- Patricia Kaas

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[–] boileau 11 years ago

I agree with you about Flemish names in Northern France, but don't mix citizenship and religion.
Klein is also a common Roman catholic surname and Klein is also a common protestant surname in Alsace.

If your french is fluent, you have understood that Losey's Mr Klein is a roman catholic.

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[–] yurenchu 11 years ago

My French isn't fluent, but from what I remember (it's been a while since I've seen it), the movie Mr. Klein is about a French guy (who, judging from his name, possibly had German/Dutch/Flemish/Northern-French ancestors) who gets mixed up with (or at least gets fascinated with knowing about the existence of) a Jewish person of the same name.

I didn't mention anything about religion. And I think there exists no such a thing as a Roman-Catholic surname or a Protestant surname.

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last listened to: Michel Fugain - Une belle histoire
http://y2u.be/qFWv3g4y2Pg

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[–] boileau 11 years ago

Thanks for the reply.
Maybe, I do not understand what you mean by "jewish surname".
In north-eastern France (Alsace region) people have german names, regardless of their religion. In South-eastern France, French citizens of jewish religion have names like "Vidal" or "Milhaud" that do not "sound jew" for a foreigner.
There is a minority of people coming from North-Africa in France, you cannot say if the surname "Ichou" is a jewish or a muslim one.

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[–] yurenchu 11 years ago

Thank you for your reply.

By "Jewish surname" I meant a typical surname of a person of Jewish heritage, regardless of whether that person practices Judaism (Jewish religion) or not. When I see the word "Jewish", I don't immediately think "religion". Heritage encompasses more than that: culture, ancestral lineage, ethnic descent, etc.

For example, Spielberg, Goldenthal, Rubenstein, Cohen etc. are typically surnames of families with a Jewish ancestral background, regardless of the religion that each member practices. Hence, I would call those names Jewish surnames; I wouldn't call them French, German or Dutch surnames (and if I understand correctly, neither would the Jewish people who have those surnames).

Of course there may also be Jewish families with a surname that does not sound typically "Jewish" but rather like a typical surname of the country where the family lives; but that is beside my point.

If you'd encounter a Frenchman in Paris whose surname is "Klein", and you'd ask him about his heritage because his surname doesn't sound French, I think there is a good chance that that person would answer: "No, in my case it's not a Dutch or German name because my family is not of Dutch or German heritage. I'm of Jewish heritage, and that's where my last name comes from." I could be wrong though.

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last listened to: Michel Fugain - Une belle histoire
http://y2u.be/qFWv3g4y2Pg

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[–] Bluedusk 10 years ago

There are quite many German or Dutch sounding surnames in France, people originating from Alsace and the French Flanders.
De Gaulle for example was of Flemish and German ascend and his name was a francisation of De Wahl.
Stand up comedian Raymond Devos changed his stage name from De Voos.
There are also many people of Polish, Italian, Spanish, etc. ascend. And of course Semitic patronyms of Sephardic and Arabic families from former French colonies and oversees territories.

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