MovieChat Forums > C.S.A.: The Confederate States of America (2005) Discussion > Alien Space Bats galore

Alien Space Bats galore

posted 9 years ago by bgrubb
3 replies | jump to latest

Alien Space Bats (ASBs for short) is a neologism badly thought out plot devices used to create an alternative history

The first issue here is the Concert of Europe (formed in the after math of the Napoleonic wars to prevent a repeat of that mess) was having major headaches by the time of the US Civil War; the the Crimean War (1854–56) and the Italian War of Independence (1859) had just happened and it was clear the Austro-Prussian War was coming down the pike (it finally arrived 1866). So there was more then enough problems at home for France to worry about.

As for England there were alternative sources of cotton in India and Egypt and they were heavily dependent on food imports from the North. It certainly didn't help that the Confederacy had tried to blackmail England with a cotton embargo. As if that piece of stupidity wasn't enough the Confederacy then by all accounts sent people who were poor diplomats to the nations of Europe further alienating anyone even considering supporting them. It was so bad that European diplomatic missions were actually advising their resident subjects to refuse to serve in the Confederate army; the Confederacy finally got around to expelling them in late 1863 AFTER Gettysburg and Vicksburg.

Then you had the matter of millions of pounds in British securities that the North could have immediately seized.

In fact, the British Cabinet that met in October 1862 to discuss recognizing the Confederacy after the battle of Chancellorsville was so opposed to the idea that the three men who had call the meeting for this very purpose (Palmerston, Russell and Gladstone) didn't make any effort to promote recognizing the Confederacy. Another factor is the British Cabinet feared that when the Union won the war (a forgone conclusion in their book once the Union got a general that was reasonably competent in charge) that if they tried to support the Confederacy that Canada would be invaded by the victorious North and conquered in ONE short campaign if the Union got a reasonable general in charge (the Union actually got two that confirmed the British Cabinet's fears: Grant and Sherman)

Any meaningful support France had for the Confederacy had died in April 1862 with the capture of New Orleans and even before then Napoleon III was willing to help militarily ONLY if England also decided to help the South and there were concerns that sending troops would make war with Prussia more likely (this war in OTL occurred 1870 so France's fears were justified)

So it wasn't just slavery that kept British and French out of the US civil war but the Confederacy acting like arrogant jerks, fear of economic reprisals by the North and then military reprisals when (not if) they won the war by England, concerns about European matters by the French.

IMHO the ONLY ASB free option for a Confederacy "victory" would be for Lincoln to lose the 1864 election which could be easily accomplished by either delaying or preventing General Sherman's march to the Sea.

[–] bgrubb 9 years ago

I might add that the closer you get to the present the more is clear the writer were lazy and went for the somehow mirrors our history idea.

In OTL it was the US that was a major influence in Allied victory in WWI from 1917 to 1918.

In fact, US Rear Admiral William Sims was told in April 1917 by British Admiralty that unless German submarine warfare was not checked Germany would win the war. Since in this ATL the CSA is occupied with Central and South America the US destroyers that helped break the German submarine blockade don't exist and neither do the American troops bolster General Foch's devastated French and British Empire armies after the German Spring Offensive of 1918.

Also with no American troops to impede the Germans Operation Georgette is a stunning success and northern English ports fall. Operations Blücher and Yorck would have been stunning successes due to no American troops and the Germans take France.

With such stunning victories there would be no German Revolution of 1918 and therefore no Weimar Repbublic and no stab in the back theory for a Nazi party to rally around and therefore no Hitler Also given how much the Western world had abandoned slavery just who was the CSA going to be selling these slaves to?

If you want to read about a more plausible CSA read about DIxie in GURPS Alternate Earths. It is interesting that the point of divergence is NOT in the war but in 1856 with William Walker's Nicaragua adventure actually succeeding. This allows Lee to win as Sharpsburg (Antietam) and while you get the British help the CSA plot device here the feared consequences happen and Britain only has what in OTL is Quabec and Ontario - everything else is part of the US:

"the vengeful Union dismembered British Canada during the Riel Rebellion of 1869 (the U.S. annexed the resulting Republic of Manitoba in 1911). Bismarck negotiated a U.S.-German Accord to counter the British alliance with the CSA, leaving the two American powers tied into European alliance politics." - GURPS AH pg 13

Yes even there it does have echos of our history chestnut but they are less stupid then here.

[–] agracier-574-436194 9 years ago

I might add that the closer you get to the present the more is clear the writer were lazy and went for the somehow mirrors our history idea.

The movie was supposed to mirror our times. That is the whole premise. It is not an alternative history movie. It is a social and political satire that is supposed to hold up a mirror to ourselves and our shortcomings and falsely held ideas of moral worth.

It's also supposed to be outrageously funny by making fun of otherwise taboo racial subjects. And as far as I'm concerned, it did an outstanding job on that account.

[–] bgrubb 9 years ago

The problem with that idea is the movie is so over the top it is hard to take anything it presents seriously. Contrast that to HBO's Second Civil War which does its humor so low key that the message is not lost in the process. I should point out that the United State is for more honest as a whole regarding its past then the CSA depicted.

In fact you see more echoes of Great Britain's history then the United States. The JBU clearly is a stand in for the IRA and there are other things that more closely British history then US (Fauntroy's chummy relationship with Hitler for example has more in common with Edward VIII and Neville Chamberlai then anything I am aware of in US history).