MovieChat Forums > The Mystery of Natalie Wood (2004) Discussion > who was the actor

who was the actor

posted 20 years ago by mnwill
88 replies | jump to latest

Who was the 'famous movie star' that raped Natalie wood when she was young. It was shown breifly in the movie, but they didn't give us any hints on who it was suppose to be. Anyone knwo?

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[–] teevee 20 years ago

K.Douglas and G.Ford were both born in 1916.

I understand your view about Kirk Douglas being Russian descent like her, but we don't know exactly why she trusted the man who did this, what was mentioned in the book is that she admired him, "he was one of her idols."...and that's probably why she "trusted" him.......whoever he is.

[–] Lilibetp 20 years ago

I don't know about Glenn Ford. He's possible, I suppose, but I think Kirk Douglas was in more really well-known films before 1954 - I can't really picture Natalie Wood idolizing Glenn Ford. Make sense? Besides, I've always felt something was "off" about Kirk Douglas. I don't know how to explain it. Almost a duality or something - there being two people in one body.

[–] teevee 20 years ago

The fact is that Natalie was raped when she had already been cast in the movie Rebel Without a Cause, and the movie started filming around late March or early April of 1955, which means the rape occured before that... sometime between December 1954 and March of 1955.

suzanne1914...Glenn has just as much of an impressive film resume as does Kirk and both started in the 1940's.

We may never know for sure.

[–] seashellez 20 years ago

I've read several Natalie bios but where in any book where it would hint at the name of her rapist?

[–] cdon 20 years ago

In the book Natasha: The story of Natalie Wood the author said he was a man 20 years older than her (so born around or before 1916) was married, famous and she turned down a movie role around 1958 I think because he was going to be in in. If Kirk Douglas was the one that did the rape, it does not say anything that he has remained married to the same woman for a long time. According to the author the person who raped Natalie Wood said that he had always wanted to *beep* her and maybe once he did he got it out of his system.

[–] DegrassiRox123 20 years ago

actually it would be around or before 1918. natalie was born in 1938.

[–] Noirdame79 20 years ago

I hate to say it, but Kirk Douglas was one of the first people that came to mind. I don't believe for one minute that it was Gregory Peck. Kirk Douglas was implicated in the disappearance of a young actress in the 1940s - she was reportedly an extra in one of his films. On the morning that she vanished, her purse was found, along with a note, written to a Kirk, and she was pregnant, and speculation has run wild since. She has never been found to this day, but I can't recall her name . . . . Jean something. I hate to think this about Kirk Douglas, since he is so poignant now, after his stroke. It is obvious that whoever the rapist is, he is still living, because why else would they protect his identity? If anyone has any info or feedback, feel free to post another message!!! I hope one day we will know this, as well as the mystery that surrounds Natalie's death and many other aspects of her life. Great movie, long overdue!!!!

[–] chrisweather 19 years ago

Having seen 'The Mystery Of Natalie Wood' I can't stop thinking about who might have raped Natalie. I saw that the character sat next to her on an award she won for promising new actress in 1956. Having looked at all the awards she won, only one was for Most Promising Newcomer - Female and that was Golden Globes January 1957.
And guess who won that same year Best Motion Picture Actor - Drama..... Kirk Douglas!
I am sure that it was him. I really hope it will be told someday. It is so sad.

[–] joandchloe 19 years ago

There are some inconsistancies in the whole rape scenario:-

1 The consensus is that Kirk Douglas was the man who raped Natalie. If that's the case, why did she remain friends with Douglas until the end of her life? Also, her husband Robert Wagner remains a friend of Douglas.
2 Finstandt says that the rapist was famous for his smile. This does not sound like Douglas to me - the man who immediately springs to mind is Burt Lancaster, but again this doesn't fit. Once again, we have a lifelong friendship, which was continued by Wagner until Lancaster's death. Wagner even invited Lancaster to spend the day at his house two weeks before his death. Would Wagner really have been so kind and compassionate to his wife's rapist?
3 What evidence is there that Natalie was actually raped? Assuimg that there is evidence that she was treated in hospital for internal injuries, is it not possible that she claimed rape to her family/friends in order to cover up the fact that she'd been injured while having consensual sex with someone? Perhaps she was worried that the people she cared about would find out she was sexually active, so concocted the rape story.

I think bringing the rape story into the public domain was very unwise and unfair. Natalie did not give her consent for her allegation to be made public -she wasn't able to give that consent (or refuse it) becuase she was dead by the time Finstadt wrote her book. Several men have been dragged into the frame as the alleged rapist, with Kirk Douglas being the one who seems to have been found 'guilty' of the crime by most people. Again, this is unfair. We don't know what happened and, 50 years after the alleged incident, we probably never will.

Joanne

[–] sdblosom 19 years ago

It is a sad thing when people just assume that a woman is making up a rape story to cover up that she 'really wanted it' or to make it up to create an alibi if someone suspected her of having sex. Going to the hospital after sex is NOT common except in rape cases! And besides, most people who are raped are so ashamed, it is not a subject likely to be thrown here and there as an alibi for having sex just in case someone catches or suspects them of being sexually active. I've never heard of anything so ridiculous.

I just hope that if and when someone confides in you that they were raped that you don't give them the same treatment you give Natalie Wood. It is people like you that make women afraid to speak out against the person who committed the heinous crime and therefore allows him to victimize others again and again.

[–] joandchloe 19 years ago

I was simply pointing out that it's dangerous to automatically assume that this rape allegation is true. Unfortunately, there are women who lie about being raped for all sorts of reasons (e.g. revenge on a former partner or to cover up unfaithfulness). These women put back the cause of genuine victims - rape is a truly despicable crime and genuine victims do deserve (and unfortunately often fail to get) justice.

I make no apology for being sceptical of Finstadt's account of Natalie's 'rape'. We have an event that allegedly happend nearly 50 years ago. There is nothing to back the story up and (as we know from the account of Natalie's death), Finstadt didn't always use the most accurate sources.

Joanne

[–] AngelRedhead 16 years ago

The actress who disappeared was Jean Spangler
http://uk.imdb.com/name/nm0816805/

"I cannot live without my life! I cannot die without my soul".... Heathcliff

[–] sdblosom 19 years ago

Kirk Douglas mentions Natalie Wood in his autobiography "Ragman's Son". After completing the film "The Glass Menagerie" he states while coming home from the studio one night a car in front of his stops at a red light and a little girl hops out and ask him to sign her suede jacket. Douglas mentions that was the first time he met Natalie Wood. Douglas quotes "I saw her many times afterwards before her cruel accident". That was around 1950. Why would a "grown" man have such a strong encounter of a 12 year old girl who haven't reached full super star status?

He is also known for roughing up his women that he would frequently bed, up to and including raping them. I bet that he was Natalie Wood's rapist from when she was 16. He also raped Jean Seberg as it turns out. Those poor girls.

To quote JackTimmons5: "I don't know why anyone would celebrate this man. Now that I know this, I am very much against him, though he is an okay actor. My guess is that his stroke was the karma coming back to get him. Frankly, I think he deserved it."

He always said he did bad things in his youth. I always thought this guy and his son looked like a-holes is just something about them, just not right.

[–] joandchloe 19 years ago

I'm guessing that Douglas mentioned the encounters with Natalie because whilst she wasn't a huge star at the time of the encounters, she eventually became so. As such, it would have been an interesting anecdote to include in the book.

I'm no fan of Kirk Douglas, however I don't think anyone should automatically assume he's guilty, simply on the basis that they don't like him. He probably has done some pretty unpleasant things in his time - as have many people in Hollywood. However, there is no real evidence that he was Natalie's rapist and, as such, the allegation should be treated with caution (as should other so called 'claims' contained in Suzanne Finstadt's book).

Joanne

[–] sdblosom 19 years ago

I don't claim to know who did it, I'm merely speculating, not pointing fingers. I'm just pointing out a few things. ^_^

[–] deanieND 19 years ago

Ok everyone, let us keep in mind who was behind Finstad in writing this book, as well as helping to get this movie, Lana Wood. The family did/does not approve this book or the movie. Now I am not saying that the book and movie are false, but I believe them to be biased making Lana look like a wonderful sister and daughter. Just read her own book, Natalie: A Memoir By Her Sister. This book is supposedly about Natalie, but I find it to be more of Lana's own autobiography. Lana seems more in search of fame for herself than in preserving the truth about her famous sister. The book to read would be Natalie Wood: A Life written by Gavin Lambert, who was a friend of Natalie's for about twenty years cut short by her death and the book was approved by the family. I am not an expert on Natalie, just a fan. After having read at least all three of these books, I have no clue who took advantage of Natalie. I wish she could have reported it, but who really could back in those days, as well in her environment. All I can say is that from my readings, and some of it has been quotes by Natalie herself, I find myself not trusting Lana with telling the whole truth or searching for the real truth about Natalie.
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Feel better? Good. *Slap* Me too.

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[–] joandchloe 18 years ago

Actually, if I had to name an actor (of that period) who was famous for his smile, I wouldn't have named Kirk Douglas. I would have named Burt Lancaster. To me, he was the one with the distinctive smile. Douglas was surely more famous for his distinctive chin dimple!

To be honest, I think it's dangerous to accuse people of such a nasty crime when there is no definitive evidence to say that it even happened. The only 'evidence' we have is what appeared in Finstadt's book - which is basically gossip and rumours.

Also, I recently came across some pics of RJ with Kirk Douglas at a Doulas-connected event. They were taken (if memory serves me correctly) in the late 90s or early 0s. He's been a friend of the Douglas family for many years, both prior to and post Natalie's death. Are we to believe that he would have knowingly remained friends with Natalie's rapist over the years? Or that Natalie told friends she'd been raped, but in all their years of marriage she never mentioned it to RJ?

Joanne

[–] Noirdame79 18 years ago

The only problem with that theory is that Lancaster has been dead for twelve years. That doesn't mean that he wasn't the one, but by most accounts (if they can be considered trustworthy and accurate sources), the man in question is still living. Otherwise, why would they protect him? Of course, we may never know how much truth there actually is to Finstadt's book, since Lana was the only one of Natalie's family members supportive of it. And didn't someone close to Natalie say, "I don't know how he lives with himself"?
Makes you wonder. But then again, we may never know if it is just internet rumors or some kind of a vendetta against Douglas.

Definately a mystery, no matter how you look at it!!!

[–] joandchloe 18 years ago

I get the impression that a large part of the information in Finstadt's book is gossip. That's not to say it's all untrue, but I suspect a lot of it is, paticularly when it comes to the stuff about RJ. I think I've managed to work out where most of the nastiness about him came from - I recently got into an online conversation with the daughter of a once famous Hollywood Star. She basically rehashed some of what Finstadt said about RJ in her book (claiming that her parents knew Natalie and RJ and, along with their friends, disliked him becuase he had a 'Dark Side'). The problem with what she was saying was that it appeared to be a case of her parents and their friends indulging in malicious gossip - they didn't have direct knowledge of any of the stuff they were gossiping about!

I think this 'Inner Circle' of so-called friends were gossips of the nastiest and most judgemental kind. They worshipped at the alter of Natalie and God help anyone who came into Natalie's life and didn't meet with their approval!

No doubt, the members of this 'clique' who are still alive (or were at the time Finstadt wrote her book) took great pleasure in sharing their 'gossip' with Finstadt, who unfortunately lapped it up!

Joanne

[–] Noirdame79 18 years ago

Could this get anymore confusing? Apparently, Robert Wagner and Jill St.John were invited to Burt Lancaster's 1990 wedding (and the did attend). They visited him quite frequently until his death in 1994. However, for some reason, Burt's wife would not allow her husband's old pal, Kirk Douglas to visit him (she was supposedly afraid that Kirk would upset him).

What a perplexing puzzle!!!!!

[–] joandchloe 18 years ago

Yes, and two weeks before he died, Burt visited RJ at his home and spent the day with him. Also, RJ has continued to be friends with Kirk Douglas and his family.

Incidentally, the reason I heard for Burt not wanting Kirk Douglas to visit him was because he didn't want him to see the dramatic deterioration in his health/appearance.

Joanne

[–] Noirdame79 18 years ago

That would make sense.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Noirdame79 18 years ago

Really? Could this get any more perplexing?

[–] joandchloe 18 years ago

Although it takes two to be friendly to each other and whenever I hear someone say "He/She wasn't friendly towards me..." I find myself wondering "Well, did you make the effort to try and be friendly towards them?"

BTW - I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that either Suzanne Finstadt was confused with her actors when giving out 'clues' to the man's identity (and she wouldn't be the first person to get Douglas and Lancaster mixed up) or there were a number of different names which came up during the course of research (plausible, given that she relied a lot on 'gossip', and 50 year old 'gossip' at that).

Joanne

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] joandchloe 18 years ago

To be honest, it sounds very much like a classic case of 'Chinese Whispers'. Did Dennis Hopper claim that Natalie told him that the rape took place in a car? If so, it's odd that another account talks about it being in a hotel room.

I agree about Lana. If she knew all along, why not say something in her own book? After all, she talks about Maximillian Schell attempting to rape her in her book, so she clearly wasn't above mentioning the r-word or naming names!

It worries me that people seem to accept whatever Finstadt said in her book as gospel, especially the rape thing and the garbage about RJ (which I think probably came from a few of Natalie's so-called friends who took against RJ simply because he didn't play their little games and because they didn't consider him good enough for Natalie!). As far as I'm concerned, her book is full of unsubstantiated gossip.

Joanne

[–] ExquisiteExtreme4 18 years ago

From what I gathered from the Finstad book, Natalie was the one who gave different versions of the story. Don't get me wrong, I adore this woman but one person says that she says that it happened in a hotel room and the man said, "I've always wanted to f_ck a teenager" and then someone says that Natalie woke up half naked in a car to a man whipping her thighs. Also, the book claims that Natalie would often see the actor at events and would play up the movie star image by smiling and posing for photos as if nothing had happened. Let's face it, the woman was a brilliant actor and could grin and bare it more than anyone!

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] joandchloe 18 years ago

It just seems to me that Finstadt used what was, on the face of it, an unreliable and unprovable piece of gossip (which differed wildly from source to source). It should be approached with caution. Ditto the gossip about the ending of Natalie's first marriage to RJ.

I think another thing to consider is that even if Natalie was telling people these things, that doesn't automatically make them true. Who knows what was going through her mind? Or what kind of emotional/physical state she was in?

I think that there are just too many inconsitancies in the rape story for it to be automatically considered to be true (and fingers to be pointed at the so-called 'guilty party').

As for the allegations about the end of the first marriage to RJ - again, this is 40+ year old gossip, which would have been discussed (and gleefully believed) by a certain clique of people who clearly disliked RJ. I came across the daughter of two of these people on another forum. She clearly had decided that RJ was a nasty piece of work who wasn't good enough for Natalie. Reading her comments (which seemed to mirror what was said in the Finstadt book) made me suspect that her parents and others from this 'clique' were among Finstadt's 'sources'. If so, then the information they gave was, at the very least, slanted against RJ.

I suspect that, as his marriage disintigrated, RJ might have sought comfort with someone else, but I suspect that it was, most likely a woman. The story was then embroidered and twisted as it was told and retold by the 'clique'.

Joanne

[–] BlondeVixen 18 years ago

<After all, she talks about Maximillian Schell attempting to rape her in her book, so she clearly wasn't above mentioning the r-word or naming names!>

Really? An oddly interesting statement to make about him, of all people. I haven't read her book, so I'm curious about that one.
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[–] joandchloe 18 years ago

It's a while since I read the book, but she definitely names him and describes the incident of 'attempted rape'. The story sounds plausible enough, though as this is Lana we're talking about, it's best to be a bit wary of it.

Interestingly, there is another account of Schell behaving oddly, though this time not in a sexual way - which comes from RJ Wagner. RJ was asked if there was anyone he worked with who he didn't get along with. He named Max Schell and explained that he worked with MS on 'Condemned Of Altona'. MS would stand behind the director when RJ was doing his scenes and would shake his head (as if to say "that was c**p!") - not nice, especially as RJ was having problems with confidence in front of the camera during the making of that movie! RJ isn't the type to badmouth anyone, so I found that story interesting!

Though having said that, having an ego the size of a small country (and behaving like a school bully) does not automatically make someone a rapist (or attempted rapist), so I do think that Lana's story (of the attempted rape) should be treated with caution.

Joanne

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] joandchloe 18 years ago

I think that's what surprised me - that RJ said something derogatory about someone! Although, to be fair, he told the story straight and didn't 'lay it on thick with a trowel'! He also mentioned Omar Sharif, but didn't say why he didn't like him!

I suspect that the 'spat' wasn't necessarily healed - just that RJ was big enough and mature enough to handle having a conversation with Schell. RJ strikes me as someone who doesn't hold grudges. Having said that, just because you chat with someone at a party does not necessarily mean you are bosom buddies or even like each other! I've seen a number of pics of Jill St John and Stefanie Powers together at events (usually with RJ) and I know for a fact that Jill can't stand Stefanie (and I'm sure that feeling is reciprocated).

I recall reading somewhere (it might have even come from RJ) that one reason (maybe the main reason) that Schell had a problem with him was that Schell had a thing for Sophia Loren - who was co-starring in the movie! However, Sophia wasn't interested...because she was rather taken with RJ! Ouch! LOL!

I think Lana's story of the attempted rape is probably an exaggeration, or even completely made up! With Lana, you just never know! I would treat pretty much anything she says (or writes) with caution!

Joanne

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Rob_Dan 18 years ago

My guess is we will not know for sure until the this Actor who raped Natalte is dead. Usually the skeltons come out of the closet once a celebrity passes away.

[–] joandchloe 18 years ago

The thing is, even then we still won't know the 'truth' for sure. All that will be different is that the accused actor's name will be publicised. That doesn't automatically mean he did it - just that his name has been linked to the alleged rape. Unfortunately, by then he won't be around to defend himself.

Joanne

[–] chelsea_farris 18 years ago

Can I just add that although it appeared that Kirk Douglas and Natalie Wood were "friends" after her rape, we don't know for sure. Maybe she kept up a friendly demeanor with him in public, as many celebrities do with each other, whether they like them or not. I think that 30 years ago, rape was considered "private" and not something that should ever be talked about..Simply forgotten and ignored. I'm sure some people still think like that today, as we can clearly see by some posts that people have made. :)

[–] joandchloe 18 years ago

Chelsea

I'm sure no-one contributing to this discussion thinks that rape should be considered 'private' and 'forgotten'/ignored'! Of course it shouldn't, and thankfully, it isn't anymore - though unfortunately, it's still a pretty daunting prospect for any woman who's been a victim of this heinous crime to report it and go through the justice system!

What I was trying to point out in previous posts was this - there is no proof (as far as I'm aware) that Natalie was raped. She never reported the crime or publically talked about it while she was alive. Even her sister never mentioned it in her book, written a couple of years after Natalie's death (odd, as Lana spoke about her own 'alleged' attempted rape in the book and named the man who did it - who was still very much alive).

All I'm saying is that we must approach the subject of Natalie's 'alleged' rape with caution. This is not a reflection on the issue of rape as a whole - and I do wish people would stop dragging that into this discussion which is simply a case of 'do we believe the story of Natalie's rape is true?'

Joanne

[–] chelsea_farris 18 years ago

I didn't name any names. You've also posted about the rumors involving Christopher Walkin and Robert Wagner about Natalie's death..Do you have something against Natalie? Becuase you seem really invested in trying to prove us all wrong. Even though that first post was 2 years ago.Your postings have struck me as very odd, almost scary. I'm sure that Natalie Wood was raped, I doubt she would have anything to gain from claiming that. Maybe you should just let the issues drop, becuase your coming off sounding like some sort of stalker with an agenda against Natalie Wood and her family.

[–] marbleann 18 years ago

This is very intersting reading. 2 years and counting! Now we have Max Schell as a suspect. I am sure Flipper, Bozo the Clown, Daffy Duck and Captian Kangeroo names will be coming up soon. In any case I always heard that RJ is the type of person who never said a bad word about anyone. I heard a actress say he would find something nice to say about Hitler. And the only person he even hinted that he wasn't crazy about was Raquel Welch. So I don't think we will be hearing anything about who might have raped Natalie from him. That is why after so many years not one word has been spoken about what happened on the boat when she died. He is a real classy guy. I have to believe out of respect for RJ and their kids we will never know until he is gone at least.

[–] joandchloe 18 years ago

Chelsea

I was simply saying that we shouldn't automatically condemn some guy as a rapist, when he has never been charged and the accusations have never been tested in a Court Of Law. We are relying on gossip and 50 year old gossip at that - yet people seem happy for this man to be 'named and shamed'! What happend to 'innocent until proven guilty'?

Incidentally, I have nothing against Natalie or her family - just against all the gossip and innuendo that has been allowed to cloud her story. If my opinions aren't the same as yours, fine - but I would never accuse you of being a 'stalker' because you don't agree with what I say!

Also, as a fan of Robert Wagner, I feel the attacks on him have been unfair. He and Natalie weren't perfect, but they loved each other with a passion and would never have deliberately hurt each other.

Joanne

[–] chelsea_farris 18 years ago

Joanne

I don't care one way or another if you agree with me or not. Its I noticed you all over the message boards on Natalie Wood's page, basically doing the same things against the rumors about her death. You just seem so..invested in this..Its unnerving.

[–] joandchloe 18 years ago

Chelsea

I'm sotry if most messages come across that way, but I assure you, I'm just expressing my opinions and am not a 'stalker'! I thought that was what message boards were about - people expressing their opinions.

Incidentally, I think you'll find that lots of other peopple are 'all over' the message board - this is a place that people regularly visit and contribute to.

Joanne

[–] chelsea_farris 18 years ago

Wow I'm really sorry..I didn't realize this was your primary source of socializing and "discussing opinions" with others. I shall be more sensitive next time.

[–] joandchloe 18 years ago

It's not about being 'sensitive' - it's about staying away from personal attacks (and calling someone a stalker is, in my book, a pretty personal attack). I suggest that we get back to discussing Natalie - and stay away from personal remarks, which just end up descending into juvenile bickering and name calling.

Joanne

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] teevee 18 years ago

cpmfresh:

this is a little off topic for this thread but this is what was meant:

*taking his side by not being in contact with their aunt Lana.

*taking his side by not even doubting or questioning that he might know something of what happened to Natalie considering he was there on the boat.

*taking his side by trashing and refusing to be part of the Natasha book by S.Finstad - considering it was well researched and documented for years before it was published.
(Though that doesn't necessarily mean everything in there is 100% accurate).

*Why would RJwagner be against the book anyway? Natalie is portrayed very well in the book and it gives alot of details about her amazing life. so it can't be that.
Perhaps he doesn't like the book because it doesn't paint him in the perfect light he wants to be painted in, OR maybe the book reveals some truth about him that he doesn't want people to know or believe.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] joandchloe 18 years ago

Also, it's only natural that the girls 'backed' their father as far as Finstadt and her book were concerned. The book trashes him, accusing him of all sorts of things, mostly on the basis of unsubstantiated gossip.

As for their support of him over Natalie's death - basically, they support him because a) they know him a whole lot better than Finstadt and her ilk do, b) don't believe any of the trash that's been said/written about his alleged 'involvement' in Natalie's death and c) are clearly satisfied with the official version of events, as determiend by a thorough police investigation.

Joanne

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] joandchloe 18 years ago

I suspect she didn't because of the risk of libel action - unless she could 100% prove the allegation to be true (which she presumably couldn't), then she and her publisher would probably have found themselves paying out substantial damages. Any publisher worth their salt would have been nervous about 'naming names'. Of course the situation is different when the liballed person is deceased - basically, you can't libel the dead, so you can write whatever you like about them.

I agree that this is something we will never know the truth about for sure - even if the alleged rapist is 'named' after his death.

Joanne

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] teevee 18 years ago

What is the source that mentions this actor starred in "devil's disciple?"

and even if kirk d. was in that movie....why would the Wagners supposedly pose friendly with him??

This stuff is not making sense, but whoever did it (if they did it) is definitely still alive.
This is just another mystery, just like the mystery of Nov. 1981.
Sadly, there are no definite answers because images and reputations don't want to be ruined.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] teevee 18 years ago

Thanks for the information. so you think it's Kirk.

But still...
How could she have visited him and all that, if she didn't even want to be in the same movie with him?..?
Because making a movie is also part of the "hollywood show" that perhaps Natalie felt was "required."
BUT
Visiting and posing with "friends" is not required.

It still seems odd......I still say we'll never know exactly who it is.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Noirdame79 16 years ago

Actually, Lana does not claim that Schell tried to rape her. She just said that he told her that he would not give her ring back unless she went out with him. She told Natalie, who intervened and Schell sent Lana's ring to her when he returned home to Germany. She went out with him once later when she was grown and found him boring and never saw him again. So that hardly is saying that he attempted to rape her, she just was a bit frightened (as a 14 year old would be) by the fact that he wouldn't give back her ring unless she dated him (a grown man), which would be unnerving. Either way, how does that prove that Lana "is not above mentioning the r-word or naming names?". Lana was quoted as saying in "Natasha" that she did not know of the rape until years later, because she was not told at the time.

In regards to RJ, he's hardly the prince some make him out to be. And a "few" of Natalie's friends participated in "Natasha"? Finstad interviewed far more people than Gavin Lambert even attempted to, since he knew full well that he wouldn't get any real cooperation from those who knew her - because he wrote the book for RJ, not Natalie! And now Prince Valiant has co-written his autobiio by the same man who said that Natalie had a mediocre career. Yep, that's how much he respects the memory of the supposed "love of his life".

[–] marbleann 18 years ago

This thread has been going for 2 years! It must be some type of record. I'll tell you all this I was a big Natalie Wood's fan and this is the first time I ever heard anything about Glenn Ford or Burt Lancaster might being Natalie Woods rapist. Glenn Ford who I love, wouldn't know how to crack a smile if you gave him a double dose of Laughing gas. He was a very solomn type of actor. Burt Lancaster I never heard a bad word about the guy. He was the first person to come out aout AIDS when Hudson got sick. He was very much a politico. I just don't see it. I did hear about Kirk Douglas and Nicholas Ray, but that could be just talk. This is like Watergate. I think since Lancaster is dead and Wood is dead I don't think it was him. I am sure some book would of came out about by now. Glenn Ford if they said the guy had a great smile. Forget about it.
I am not disputed that she was raped. But after two years and this thread is going strong I would not be suprised if Senor Weinces, Trigger the horse, Lassie and Ghidrah the 3 Headed Monster weren't named as suspects after a while..
Whenever the mystery is cleared up they need to make it a companion piece to what the heck was going on that boat the night she died. This is great reading so keep the post coming. There has to be a screenplay in here somewhere.

[–] pedigreedolly 18 years ago

If the rape did occur then Glen ford is not one of the suspects anymore because he died in august this year. Lana has said that the actor responsible would be named after his death and nothing has been said so far unless she is waiting for a respectable time to make it public.

I doubt the rape happened at all. Lana and finsted most probably over embellished an incident in Natalie's life so that the book and the movie would be more interesting.

[–] marbleann 18 years ago

Good point. So who are the suspects that are still alive? Kirk Douglas? If lana Wood is lying or exagerating she should be locked up then. Rape is a very serious accusation that should not be taken lightly. Why woud she want to protect a rapist by waiting to the person dies? That makes her accusation suspect IMO.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] marbleann 18 years ago

Dennis Hopper, oh yes there is a guy I would listen too, lol. I say lock him up too along with Suzanne Finstad.lol Yes I remember reading that book. And while they are at maybe we can find out what happened on that boat the night she died. And make it a epidosd on Cold Case.

[–] lynchris1 17 years ago

Wow, I've never heard this rumour before. But to put in my 2cents worth:

Back 50 years ago, rape was not reported, or was the woman's fault - thankfully things have changed since then. So maybe that is why this was not reported.

Another theory to put into the mix is: maybe Natalie was sexually active, and it became too rough and she got hurt, in this case it was consensual.

I don't believe that anyone will be named as the "rapist" after they die - just a gut feeling.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] dayar_91 17 years ago

The truth is out there

[–] ezerhcp 16 years ago

K I R K D O U G L A S

[–] Noirdame79 16 years ago

Here's a clip from the 1956 Modern Screen awards, in which Natalie and Kirk Douglas were both recipiants. This is obviously the award ceremony that Finstad referred to in "Natasha".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8BXvOX_PDU

At one event, the movie star whom Natalie told her close friends had raped her sat near her during a ceremony, flashing his charsimatic grin as if nothing had ever happened. Natalie Wood, the always-beautiful, always-happy star, beamed radiantly throughout the event, pretending to adore the famous actor beside her whom she despised.

This scene was also depicted in the movie, at least in the European version, although it's dramatized and moved ahead to when Natalie and Wagner were already dating.

So it is Douglas who has been referred to and named privately as Natalie's alleged rapist. Again, we can all debate on whether it actually occurred or not, and Dennis Hopper is not the most reliable source of information, IMO. However, since at least 4 other people have said that Natalie was raped by the same actor, well, you have to wonder. I doubt that these people all conspired together to cook up this story just for Finstad to publish. Since Natalie never said so publicly herself (and she clearly was not the kind of person who would have), we will probably never know for sure. If rape is underreported now, imagine what it was like back in the 50s, and in Hollywood to boot. If it did happen, I could see Maria reacting the way Finstad said in the book about being concerned Natalie's career would be ruined (always her main concern, not her daughter's feelings or state of mind), and Natalie putting on a brave face in public and in social situations whenever their paths crossed. It was also said in the book that Natalie had never seen "that kind of rage", when she was violated by this actor/producer who had been one of her childhood idols, and since Douglas was known for being very angry and aggressive during sexual intercourse and roughing up women (at least in the bedroom), one wonders.

[–] monk420_uk 14 years ago

I find this quite fascinating and looking at the video that Roseofsharon969 posted of the Modern Screen Awards 1956 i noticed another actor that it could be. Tony Curtis. He has a famous smile and is 14 years older than Natalie.

But i'm sure that's unlikely. I hate to think of anyone doing this especially Kirk Douglas. I don't think people should commit judgment without proof at least until a name has been mentioned. I would hate to think this was made up by Natalie or the author.

I have to admit though i would like to know either way

[–] Noirdame79 13 years ago

She worked with Tony three times. While their working relationship had its ups and downs, I don't think she was afraid of him or despised him. Supposedly, she turned down "The Devil's Disciple" because the actor who raped her was in the cast - Kirk Douglas. (The other two, Laurence Olivier, whom she later worked with on the television production of "Cat On A Hot Tin Roof" and Burt Lancaster both were long dead by the time "Natasha" was published).

[–] teevee 13 years ago

Years ago I was a bit doubtful as to who exactly it was, but with all the information out there in the Internet on this subject...it is more than obvious that it was Kirk Douglas.
I didn't see the whole movie when it came out, though I did get see about 2 seconds of the rape scene as I was flipping channels...and the actor playing the rapist in the movie does resemble Kirk a lot. I wonder who was the actor who portrayed him in that scene.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] !!!deleted!!! (5085627) 11 years ago

It was "more or less Kirk that raped her," I_Love_Jason_Sudeikis? How is one "more or less" a rapist, and how does one "more or less" rape someone?

It was Kirk Douglas who raped her, and why would you be "one of the biggest fans" of a rapist? I've always found it disturbing that there are actually people who think an actor is similar to the characters and roles he's played, so therefore if an actor is known for playing good guys or admirable and heroic characters, then the actor must be that kind of person too. Hardly. Why do you think it's called ACTING? (There are also actors known for playing evil and contemptible characters who in "real life" are some of the nicest people one would ever know.) Kirk Douglas has always been one of the least liked actors in the film industry mainly because his behavior and treatment towards many of his colleagues over the decades has earned him a well-deserved reputation for being an unpleasant, mean-spirited, self-serving egomaniac, and many would also add cruel and sadistic. And last I checked, isn't rape a crime? So let's also add 'criminal' to Kirk Douglas' resume. Natalie should have blown the whistle on that lowlife from the start, but she was a frightened 16 year old kid who felt powerless and traumatized, plus she foolishly listened to her insane, fame-obsessed mother.

One of the great outrages and injustices in the film industry is that someone as nice, talented, esteemed and full of life as Natalie had her life cut short while someone like Kirk Douglas just goes on and on. Natalie deserved so much better, and Kirk Douglas, like his grandson, deserved jail time.

[–] marbleann 15 years ago

I heard it was either Kirk Douglas or that director Nicholas Ray.

[–] Noirdame79 14 years ago

Just some people wondered if it might have been Ford since he was born the same year as Douglas - but since he was not a producer at that time, and he died in 2006, well, he's been excluded.

All the implications of the rapist's identity points to Douglas. Add that he's still alive and he's still the most likely suspect (if it did happen).