MovieChat Forums > Va, vis et deviens (2008) Discussion > Depiction of religious Jews in the film

Depiction of religious Jews in the film


What do viewers feel about the depiction of religious Jews in the film? Most of the religious men in the film are depicted as haredim - ultra-orthodox super religious people that are not always nice people. They try to "trick" a group of the Ethiopians into ritual conversion (taking a drop of blood from the penis followed by immersion in a ritual bath) when young Schlomo is taken for what seems to be a medical exam, followed by the wild scene of escape. In real life, they have made some deeply regrettable religious decisions and public statements about who is and isn't a Jew, and other issues that have affected many peoples lives in a less than positive way.

The two exceptions are "hero" characters: the Ethiopian religious leader that we finally learn has known Schlomo's secret all along - and still helped and mentored him on a path toward Judaism - and the rabbi that Schlomo interacts with as a teenager (at his bar mitsva, other scenes, and is at the wedding). By the way, that's some great chanting of the Torah in the bar mitsva seen - the actor clearly knows his stuff.

As a religious (American) Jew that believes I'm a balanced kinda guy, I'm rarely comfortable with a common dichotomy of Israeli perspectives on Jews: they are either massively "religious" with black hats and long beards, or not at all except for a small number of life cycle events (births, b'nai mitsvoth, marriages, deaths). This depictions ignores a huge number of Jews that fall in between those extreme positions, including many Israeli "Modern Orthodox" and Masoti/Conservative groups. Perhaps it's more difficult to make characetures out of less visually identifiable religious Jews. We largely dress the same as non-religious Jews (except for extreme female fashion that often borders on porn), have no trouble interacting with non-religious Jews. We try to find a way to live a life among many different types of people while still keeping a path defined by the ethics and morals of the written holy books in our tradition as interpreted over time by learned leaders. I like the idea that being Jewish has nothing to do with skin color and everything to do with the content of a man's character (now, who said that?) and one's positive actions toward God, the world we live in, and the other people who live here too.

-N

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Here in Israel there are the datiim, that are simple religious people. They use kippas, eat kosher, go to the beit kneset, don't drive or use electricity and stuff in sabbath, but serve in the army like anyone, and they are quite normal.
The other kind, are the haridim. The orthodox jews. And sadly, they quite fit the description given in this movie.
They get money from the government, don't do the military service, thanks to them jews that want to marry non jews have to sail to Cyprus to get married...

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"being Jewish has nothing to do with skin color and everything to do with the content of a man's character" that was Sammy Davis jr. wasn't it?
i liked your point somehow but still it sounds as if there would be no datim (or modern orthodox as you call them) in haaretz, which is not true. although most of the Israelis are secular, same as the biggest part American jews, who call themselves reform (which is basically ok) but never even go to the beit knesset nor eat kosher or anything else that marks a religious jewish life. exept once a year on yom kippur maybe. but between those and the ultra-orthodox haredim there is a a big group of jews who lives a life with devotion to the religious principals of Judaism without trying to separate themselves from other people (goim or not) or to convince other jews to live like they do. in the galut aswell as in the country.

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I shall admit that many situations in this movie are complex and could be misunderstood.

However, the Ethiopian religious leader had NOT known Schlomo's secret all along. When the Christian Schlomo and his Jewish second mother had arrived to Israel, there is little doubt that he recognises the mother and testified by nodding that SHE is a member of the Jewish community. It is far from obvious that he had detected that this mother's alleged son was not her real son.

By contrast, when Schlomo asks the leader to write a letter to his real mother, the leader is surprised by the fact that the mother did not have a Jewish name. And Schlomo invents the false explanation that she had to convert in order to marry Schlomo's father. The leader evidently believes this explanation.

Not until Schlomo has been thoroughly maltreated by real black and non-Jewish men does Schlomo tell the truth to the leader. Evidently, the leader continue to treat Schlomo as a genuine Jew. - And Schlomo had certainly behaved like a real Jew for more than ten years. The greatest theological obstacle was that the Ethiopian Jews were allegedly the offspring of King Salomon and the queen of Saba. The queen was not a Jew, and Jewisness is inherited by the mother.

But all the falashas violently protested when the religious authorities would "transform them into genuine Jews" by taking a drop of blood from their penis. (Nothing was said about how to transform females into genuine Jews, and this should be more important, since the status of the mother determines the status of the child.)

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"But all the falashas violently protested when the religious authorities would "transform them into genuine Jews" by taking a drop of blood from their penis. (Nothing was said about how to transform females into genuine Jews, and this should be more important, since the status of the mother determines the status of the child.) "

The Beta Israel women were asked to take a dip in a ritual bath (mikve) like any female converts to Judaism. The procedure that the Israeli Chief Rabbinate adopted at the time for the Ethiopian Jews was known as "giyyur le Humra"--"symbolic conversion". They determined that the community as a whole understood the Jewish religion and followed Jewish rituals, so they were exempted from instruction as other converts would be--but because of uncertainties over their status too complicated to go into here, that it would be preferable from the point of view of Jewish law if they underwent a "symbolic conversion" to remove all doubt. In the case of men who are already circumsised, that would require what is known as "hatafat dam berit", taking a drop of blood from the penis in lieu of circumsision (after all, one can;t be circumsized twice!) the same is done to any male convert who was previously circumsized.

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Actually the Ethiopian religious leader knew that Solomon was not a Felasha. When Hana said all the village people know my son and so does Qes so and so, I did not see him nod, what I saw him do is turn his face down so he doesn't have to lie. When you think about it the village they come from is small where everbody knows everyone, so the Qes has to know every member of Hana's family. Do not forget he has burried her son the same night she got a new 9 year old son.

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It seems that the movie tried to give a balanced portrayal of religious Jews, but got a lot of details wrong. For instance, besides the qes who helped Shlomo write the letetrs, there was a kindly (white) rabbi as well who helped him prepare for his bar mitzvah and encouraged him. On the other hand there was Sarah's father who was depicted as being racist and intolerant. What they got wrong was depicting him as a haredi, from his style of dress, he looked "Litvish" --why then was he hosting a birthday party for his daughter in which teenage boys were invited? Someone as religious as he would be unlikely to condone a birthday party for a girl with teenage adolescents of both sexes present, regardless of whether they were Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Ethiopian, Jewish or non-Jewish. Then I didn't get the whole deal with that debate thing and Shlomo's speech about God being like the moon and watching over Adam, and all the religious Jews in the audience applauding Shlomo's Torah "commentary". The truth is, the intolerant father was right--that commentary was near heretical from a strict Orthodox perspective, the other Orthodox would probably not have accepted it so eagerly. They should have re-written that contrived scene entirely. It is true that there is a national Bible Contest in Israel (Hidon ha Tanakh), but that event is participated in by the "National Religious" types and seculars; not the ultra-Orthodox who are depicted as participating in a similar even in the movie. And I also didn't understand why Sarah's father dressed like a haredi, and she wore jeans. Were they Modern Orthodox or "Litvish"?

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You raise some inconsistencies, but this is a movie (not a documentary) and as such the writers/film-makers have the right to err to keep the story and the message coherent, if not they could be blamed for not doing so. It does not take away from the fact that this movie carries a powerful message.

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True, it is a work of fiction, but for me it detracted a lot from the film-- being very familiar with the various subcultures and attitudes within the Orthodox Judaism of today , it really struck many false notes to get so many things wrong in a movie I very much wanted to like.

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Yeah I can't imagine the whole debate thing happening, that was probably the most ridiculous. Some modern orthodox types dress like the girl's father but probably at the frummer end. I think they probably made him look more haredish to make the character less sympathetic. But then the birthday party wasn't so plausible... Also right at the beginning they showed them at "Kfar Noar Mamlakhti Dati" but the principal wasn't wearing a kippa. Some staff did and some didn't. So I was thinking well maybe they just used the location to look after the Ethiopians and the staff were mixed dati and not. But otherwise I thought the movie was good. Other scenes of Israel around 1984 and onwards seemed pretty realistic. Also hard to imagine the boy would learn French so fast and so well as well as learning to speak Hebrew.

But in general plot development triumphed over accuracy. The main audience was presumably in France and the directors did a calculation based on that.

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What do you expect when 'Shalom Achshav' seems to be the main political line of the movie, they love our enemies more than 'Jews', no news there.

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