MovieChat Forums > Caché (2006) Discussion > Pierrot's anger at his mother... [SPOILE...

Pierrot's anger at his mother... [SPOILERS]

posted 13 years ago by prettyh
16 replies | jump to latest

Like everyone else, I came to this board after seeing the film (I finally watched it again; I'd seen it back in '06 originally and had forgotten most of it) to try to work out the kinks in my brain. I gather it's not gonna happen.

But here's a topic I haven't seen addressed, even though I went back through three pages of posts (forgive me if I missed it and am retreading):

What is the deal with Pierrot more or less accusing his mother of having an affair with Pierre? That stood out to me as feeling weirdly out of place, unless it's meant to point to something very deliberately.

I realize that the entire point of the film itself is not, "Who sent the tapes?!?" But even setting that aside and taking it as a film about Georges and the guilt from his childhood, I'd like to think the scenes within the film make sense! (Sort of like "Das weisse Band" isn't about what we originally suspect...but I didn't find there to be any gaping, "What the...??" scenes or setups in it, so I'm wondering if I'm just missing something in the mother/son angst here.)

A refresher: We see a scene of Anne (the mother) at a café weeping on the shoulder of a man (Pierre) about her husband Georges lying to her about Majid and the tape. The body language between Anne and Pierre is pretty intimate for being just friends and colleagues; he was holding her hand, kissing her, brushing her tears away, yadda yadda. But what caught my attention most was that I actually thought what we were seeing, because of how stationery and "objective" it looked, was another videotape being played back. It looked like it was footage of this clandestine meeting, not the real thing. I was SURE we would see either Georges or Pierrot watching the scene at the café...but it never happened (not that we witnessed).

But then skip ahead to later that very evening. Anne comes home late, Georges snarks at her about being out with Pierre and having her cell phone off, and suddenly they realize Pierrot is missing. He just happens to have taken off that night, and when he returns the next morning he's full of anger and accusations for his mother about Pierre?? He wouldn't have even known they were out together that evening...

...unless the theory about Pierrot being involved somehow (with Majid's son?) in filming is true. Which is a stretch, by my way of thinking (yes, even with the final scene, which I had to go back and re-watch because I was one of the suckers who couldn't figure out who I was meant to be looking at on those steps!), but how else do we explain it?

The kid suddenly getting angry about his mother possibly screwing around on his father just feels too completely out of left field if it means nothing; Haneke isn't known for tossing random scenes in (and major ones at that) to have them be completely insignificant.

Was there something else I missed in the movie where Pierrot could've developed this idea about his mother and Pierre? He remains non-combative with his father, but is furious at his mother... What are we to assume Georges told him that day when he picked him up from school, saying he'd dropped Anne off so the two of them could talk alone? Surely this has to have materialized into something...doesn't it???

Haneke makes me want to scream sometimes. In good ways and in bad. Argh.

~ http://prettyh.blogspot.com/ ~

[–] drumm23 13 years ago

Pierrot suspects his mother's indiscretion because the scene at the cafe - Anne & Pierre - *is the recorder*. Watch it again, it's clearly the recorder. And Pierrot sees this clip (he is in cahoots with Majid Jr.) and is disgusted by his mother's actions. The movie stresses this to us by including the scene with Pierrot and his Dad in the bathroom while Pierrot washes his teeth. There is no need to have that scene except to show that -at that point- Pierrot is extremely unhappy with his mother but fine with his father. The angry scene with his mother stresses the same by showing Pierrot aggressively pushing her at the end of their embrace - he is clearly not placated.

Obviously you can't accept this unless you also accept the Pierrot & Majid Jr. conspiracy, for me it is beyond question that they are the guilty parties, there are so many hints in the film toward it and it plays perfectly with the macro historical theme.

________
I'd also like to add one other observation to the Anne & Pierre relationship which I haven't yet seen mentioned here. The night that Georges comes home after the suicide he goes directly up stairs and *assumes* that Anne is downstairs with Pierre *and* Pierre's partner. The partner is not actually there, it is just Anne and Pierre. Look at the scene where Georges looks out the window to see "them" leaving and we actually (intentionally) only see Pierre leaving - he is on his own. Anne does not correct Georges' assumption that the *couple* were visiting. It is another nod toward the recurrent themes of trust/revelation/integrity.

A masterpiece of modern cinema.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] prettyh 13 years ago

Pierrot suspects his mother's indiscretion because the scene at the cafe - Anne & Pierre - *is the recorder*. Watch it again, it's clearly the recorder. And Pierrot sees this clip (he is in cahoots with Majid Jr.) and is disgusted by his mother's actions. The movie stresses this to us by including the scene with Pierrot and his Dad in the bathroom while Pierrot washes his teeth. There is no need to have that scene except to show that -at that point- Pierrot is extremely unhappy with his mother but fine with his father. The angry scene with his mother stresses the same by showing Pierrot aggressively pushing her at the end of their embrace - he is clearly not placated.

THANK YOU. Okay, yes, I have to concede now that, yes, there is no other way for any of it to work - and for the points I questioned to be answered - unless the theory about Pierrot and Majid's son are the cameramen. You worded it better than I did when you mentioned that we were clearly watching a recording during that scene between Anne and Pierre; I knew that's what it felt like, and was surprised when we didn't get the same pan back/rewind/review scene right afterward, as we had with the others leading up to it.

The partner is not actually there, it is just Anne and Pierre. Look at the scene where Georges looks out the window to see "them" leaving and we actually (intentionally) only see Pierre leaving - he is on his own. Anne does not correct Georges' assumption that the *couple* were visiting. It is another nod toward the recurrent themes of trust/revelation/integrity.

I'd missed that! Now that you've reminded me, YES, I know exactly the moment you mean, as we see out the window that only a man is leaving.

My whole thesis was, basically, "How could Pierrot be so angry with Anne unless he had seen/shot the film?" Now I know the answer is, "He couldn't and wouldn't be, because he WAS the one behind the camera." Not as much of a stretch as I thought before a few of the finer details were put into place for me. Thank you for that!

~ http://prettyh.blogspot.com/ ~

[–] bigbaz2008 13 years ago

I disagree about it being 'beyond doubt' who made the tapes. Haneke's movies aren't puzzles to be solved - to view them like that is missing the point a little.

The film is about, among other things, secrets and the effects they have on the people around the person that keeps them. I feel Pierrot suspects his mother of an affair because he has probably picked up on tiny signs over the years. Signs that Georges has missed or maybe chosen to ignore, or maybe not there. Signs, as you mentioned, like Pierre being at the flat on his own.

To suggest that Majid's son and Pierrot are the 'culprits' is a perfectly valid view, but far from proved. It could just of well been Majid himself - trying to make Georges feel guilty for the 'wrong' he had done him - culminating in Majid bringing Georges to witness his suicide.

Its natural to formulate views about who made the tapes but ultimately I think its more important to ask yourself questions about whether Georges is guilty or not and what would you do in his situation. Can a six year chld really be responsible for his actions? Are his parents more guilty for believing him and sending Majid away? (would they have done the same to their own child or even to a European boy)

I think my point is the film raises many questions and I think who made the tapes isnt the most important one

[–] clancy6969 13 years ago

I hate that bull crap about "it's a mystery you aren't supposed to solve, you don't get it man, you just don't have the brains to understand this art, I'm afraid."

Obviously guilt is the major theme and point of the movie, but this thread finally made everything click into place for me. How am I supposed to think about the major themes when the director wraps them up in a mystery to distract you? Because it's just a gimmick to make you think about the movie more.
Terrific film and he did just that, but it was Pierrot and Majid Jr. that made the tapes.

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[–] StaunchWoman 7 years ago

And Pierrot sees this clip (he is in cahoots with Majid Jr.) and is disgusted by his mother's actions.....Pierrot is extremely unhappy with his mother but fine with his father.

I don't understand why Pierrot would be happy interacting with his father if he's in cahoots with Majid Jr. The whole point of sending the tapes is to expose something terrible Georges has done in the past. I understand why Pierrot is unhappy with his mother, but why isn't he showing malice towards his father as well? Is it simply to hide the fact he's behind the tapes?

We've met before, haven't we?

[–] ewfleming-616-650888 13 years ago

I wondered if Pierrot had picked up ANOTHER deposted video tape that showed his mom and Pierre together. It did seem obvious that somebodoy saw mom and Pierre like that, and like you say it looks like they were taped, then dumped the tape at the residence and Pierrot got it. Or took it to school and had it delivered to Pierrot then he of course watched it. Plus like Georges's producer said to him about the tape at the studio -- who knows how many of these are out there?
I'm not sure we're supposed to figure out who was doing the taping.

[–] Ralyyy 13 years ago

yeah, that's what i thought. Pierrot had already recieved a postcard at the school, it wouldn't have been very difficult to send him a tape. And he probably wouldn't want to talk about it.

[–] pubbly 13 years ago

Just watched the film again this morning.

This time I also noticed how they show a scene where it must have been Pierrot looking out of his bedroom window at the street (because later on at the end of the film we also see George looking out his bedroom window ... and that Balcony Scene is also MUCH HIGHER UP than the other one ... where his son must be looking out the window and watching the street).

Everytime one watches this movie one keeps finding things that they haven't seen before!

HIDDEN is a great name for this film!

Gina to Paul: You begin by questioning your value as a therapist - you end by questioning mine.

[–] tudormon 13 years ago

The Pierrot scene. Yes, a particularly bad one. The mother should have brought the father in immediately and cleared the matter in the poor young boy's head. Her alone was obviously not enough in that stage and the father would have surely calmed his little (no, I did not mean young) brain down.

[–] lotsofevil 12 years ago

There are a lot of still scenes that aren't video, for instance, the long shot of young Majid getting put in the car at the end of the film.

I think it's very plausible that Majid Jr. was the culprit, but less so that Pierott was. If anything, Majid Jr. obviously contacted Pierott at his school at least once at the end of the movie, but knowing this, it's possible he sent the postcard to Pierott there as well. If we believe that the cafe scene with Anne and Pierre was a video, then maybe Majid Jr. sent that to Pierott as well without involving Pierott in making it.

Another way of looking at it is that we were shown the scene of Pierre and Anne simply because we needed to see it to add weight to Pierott's accusation, and not because it was a video. There is as much evidence to this as there is to the other theory.

Great movie, no matter who did it.

http://www.vimeo.com/jzcommunicate/albums <- Check it out...

[–] latin_buddy 12 years ago

Pierre, Pierrot... Just a name coincidence?

[–] gonnabeabumpyride 11 years ago

I'm sorry but I see absolutely no indication this scene was another one of the mysterious recordings. The static camera is quite tight and the sound is perfect even when Pierre lowers his voice as she lays her head on his shoulder. The person recording would have had to be practically at the same table for this to work or at least have a mic hidden on their table somewhere.

I too was bothered that we're never told why the son accuses his mother. I fear it's just another one of those maddening situations where we will never know for sure.

[–] 11 years ago

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