MovieChat Forums > Sicko (2007) Discussion > Can the libs on here stop lying

Can the libs on here stop lying

posted 9 years ago by Amills23
22 replies | jump to latest

If you want socialized medicine then fine by me but just be honest. But I'm tired of all the libs from around the world talking about going to the hospital and only having to pay $3, $40, $50, ext. You pay much more than that. You have to account for the amount of your taxes that go towards health care.

Either their stupid or their flat out lying. Their cost to go to the hospital was much more than that unless that is their not working or don't buy anything. To get a true cost of your visit to the hospital you would have to figure in how much of the taxes you pay goes toward health care. A great example for Canadians is how much more you pay for gas or goods than people in the US do.

[–] muzilon 9 years ago

Either their stupid or their flat out lying.

Look up the difference between "they're" and "their".

[–] liutenantsalt 7 years ago

Look up fallacies; ad hominem.

[–] JackSparrow92 9 years ago

You're right, we Canadians do pay more for gas and consumer goods than you do in the US. Our taxes are higher, in part to pay for our universal healthcare and reasonably affordable post-secondary education tuition.

And yet... knowing that we pay more for gas, consumer goods and taxes, Canadians in opinion polls routinely favour our healthcare system to the US system, by a considerable margin. Even Canadian conservatives tend to hold that view.

Part of the difference is that Canadians haven't been conditioned since the Second World War to be reflexively terrified of the word "socialized". Most of us take the view that, if socialized medicine means more people have access to health care and are overall healthier as a result, bring it on.

There's a reason why Canada, the UK, Germany, the Scandinavian nations, etc. all have higher life expectancy, lower infant mortality rates, and lower obesity rates (to name just a few) than the United States.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.
-- Klingon proverb

[–] CharlesVariations 9 years ago

I think everything you just told him was already summed up in the movie, which means it went in one ear out the other. Which also means he's not going to listen to what you said, anyway.

It's funny because he argues against it, but when it's in a country where a majority of its people's population approves of it, how do you argue against them about their own system of which they happily approve???

"NO..you DON'T like the healthcare, it's bad! Bad universal canadian healthcare! It's bad and you just don't know it!"

Only people with money say that money doesn't matter.

[–] Amills23 9 years ago

Not talking about the movie I'm talking about the people lying on the board and partially the movie. It doesn't really give examples of true cost and glosses over it.

[–] liutenantsalt 7 years ago

So, you gleefully settle for being robbed blind in exchange for shoddy, inferior healthcare because you can hide in smug self-satisfaction and self-delusion.

DUH, CANADA

[–] seahawk3133 9 years ago

Liberals always leave out facts when spewing their agenda

[–] sinbad8982 9 years ago

I live in the UK, and the thought of having an accident or illness and ending up thousands of pounds in debt as a result and potentially destitute is frightening. Our healthcare system is expensive, I would estimate probably 20% of my taxes goes towards healthcare so about 4% of my gross income. It seems a small price to pay for anyone on a low to moderate income, the people who can least afford healthcare. I can't understand why any American with a social conscience would not see universal healthcare as a good thing.

[–] model101 9 years ago

A great example for Canadians is how much more you pay for gas or goods than people in the US do.

That is true and I am thankful for it.
I would rather pay the higher taxes and pay more on gas and other goods then not have that health care safety blanket if and when I need it.

America is one of the only civilized countries that don't have it and few it as evil. But then again America thinks God is money which is why they worship it so much.

[–] Amills23 9 years ago

To be fair that extra money you spend on taxes, gas, and goods, can pay for your health insurance instead.
Just saying there's two ways to look at it.

[–] Amills23 9 years ago

All well and good. At least you gave a fair accounting. I'm fine with people wanting it I just want honesty on the subject. Also can't stand the misinformation out their the poorest in the US are covered for health care its mostly the middle class that has to deal with the expense of health care. I prefer non-profit healthcare myself but to each their own.

[–] mr_binks 9 years ago

We Canadians do pay more in taxes and goods than Americans, yes it's true. But our healthcare is included in the taxes, there are no co-pays or deductibles or any of that crap. No Canadian will be denied healthcare over personal finances, no one will ever lose their house just because they got sick.

You Americans pay less in taxes and goods than Canadians, yes it's true. But you pay premiums to a for-profit health insurance provider who makes you pay extra for deductibles and mysterious costs hidden in the bill. Or, they can just choose not to cover your medical bills at all over a technicality, and you consumers give them the right to do that. Or, you can just not have insurance and die.

I'll stick with my high taxes, high quality of life, and high life expectancy, thanks.

[–] liutenantsalt 7 years ago

"No Canadian will be denied healthcare over personal finances, no one will ever lose their house just because they got sick. "

Except for the many who come to America for care because your shoddy little Third World "universal healthcare" turns away and meglects so many.

You can keep your high taxes and self delusion, I'll stick with the infinitely higher standards of living.

[–] JackSparrow92 7 years ago

Sure, quite a few Canadians come to the US for non-emergency surgery. Then again, lots of Americans cross the border northwards to fill prescriptions for a fraction of the US price, and to access the public system because they can't afford the US system. Then there's the nearly 30 million people in America who still lack any kind of health coverage at all. Or that your health coverage can still not matter if your insurer retroactively refuses to cover something.

Or maybe Americans come up here to escape the reality that medical expenses are the leading cause of personal bankruptcy in America, while in Canada and the rest of the developed world, that's all but unheard of.

Our system certainly isn't perfect. But even if what I've described here still makes it "shoddy little Third World universal healthcare" in your eyes, I'll still choose ours any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.
-- Klingon proverb

[–] redstratocaster 9 years ago

Why don't the CONS on here stop lying?

They have told us for DECADES how great American health care is, how bad other nations health care is, and of course, it would lead to communism.

I didn't even KNOW there were universal systems in other nations until I was in high school in the '80s. I had a Canadian classmate (he was here because his father was teaching at a seminary) who told us about their system...to say that I was surprised is an understatement! I had thought EVERYONE had to shell out their last dime for health care.

I then talked to my uncle, who had been stationed in the UK and West Germany in the Air Force. He told me that virtually all of western Europe and the British dominions (as they were known then), like Canada, Australia and New Zealand, had similar systems.

The so-called "liberal media" here sure hasn't done a good job of telling us that there are other ways of doing things, have they?

Incidentally, I now live near the Canadian border and know many, many Canadians. To a man/woman they say their system is imperfect, but no way would they trade it for the crazy-quilt in the USA.

[–] JackSparrow92 8 years ago

Quite right. It's an imperfect system designed by imperfect beings for imperfect beings. It's not always going to work the way it's supposed to. But for the most part, it works quite well. If your medical problem isn't an emergency, you can end up waiting awhile for surgery, an MRI, etc. (Having said that, there are always private options available -- I recently had knee surgery, and by paying $500, I was able to see the specialist of my choice sooner, and get my surgery done sooner. Other than the $500, it was completely covered by our system.

Also, the emergency care up here is top notch. My dad had a quintuple bypass after waiting no more than 48 hours. My mom had surgery to fix a detached retina even quicker than that. I have two friends who have had major shoulder reconstructive surgery and have nothing but good things to say about their experiences.

The fact that we don't have to fight with insurers or deal with copays or deductibles (or really money at all, when it comes to medical care) is a huge bonus, I'd say.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.
-- Klingon proverb

[–] liutenantsalt 7 years ago

Funny how it's okay to tear apart the US system for not being perfect, but as soon as someone points out the enormous flaws, corruption, abuse and neglect evident in every "singlepayer", you can only shrug and offer the usual Regressive Left rationalization of, "Oh well, as long as I'M not negatively impacted!".

[–] liutenantsalt 7 years ago

Just because you're a militant idiot who believes in childish fantasies like "free" healthcare (paid for by extorting over 10x the cost from your paycheck) and benevolent socialism doesn't make them liars.

[–] FridayOnElmStreet 8 years ago

Taxes are high her in the US as well.

[–] liutenantsalt 7 years ago

Courtesy the Regressive Left, who just ran a socialist whacko in the presidential campaigns who ran on a platform of taxing everyone at 75%+ rates so the government can monopolize healthcare.

[–] lazarillo 7 years ago

Of course, healthcare isn't free (if many "libs" are even saying that). But you can't possibly expect to have affordable healthcare when you are old and sick IF YOU DON'T PAY INTO IT WHEN YOU'RE YOUNG AND HEALTHY. Unfortunately, the only way to get most young and healthy people to do that is taxes. That's why Medicare is paid for by taxes. That's why employer healthcare is paid for largely by the government giving a tax write-off the employers (i.e. your boss would pay YOU more if he wasn't paying for your healthcare). And "Obamacare" would be even less popular if it wasn't being largely subsidized by Medicaid taxes in "blue" states. Besides their knee-jerk stupidity, people in "red states" have a special hatred for "Obamcare" because their states turned down these subsidies in order to make "Obamacare" even more unpopular, and it's worked like a charm.

Still, you can defeat "Obamacare", but you can't defeat reality. You can't contribute absolutely nothing to health insurance and expect to have it when you need it. It's like if you don't want to be "forced" to buy car insurance, but you expect to have it when you get in an accident. If conservatives agree to be shot in the head as soon as they become ill and require more care than they can pay for out of pocket, I'll agree that shouldn't be "forced" to buy healthcare either via "Obamacare" or via taxes.

"Let be be finale of seem/ The only emperor is the Emperor of Ice Cream"

[–] Xenopharb (617) 6 years ago

Look at your w-2 line 12c DD ... that is your tax for health care.

Europeans pay much less for health care, have better coverage, and live longer.