(Spoilers)
In the flash back at the end of the film Celia already knows that Paul’s father may be her father, however we are told that Paul’s brother tells her this in the same sequence were she dies. How can this be so?
Another great New Zealand film.
I saw it last night, loved it! I'm going back to watch it again tonight, I'll keep an eye out for that and reply. I think you might be right, it didnt seem to completely make sense. Anyway, i'll find out.
shareFrom what I can remember, the general sequence is as follows:
Celia discovers that Paul's carrying a photo of her.
Celia goes home; her mum has to tell her the whole story - that Celia's father is Paul's father, a discussion that the audience isn't yet privy to.
Paul asks Celia to visit, Celia visits, gets upset at him for not telling her.
Andrew contacts Celia to tell her that she's inherited. Celia doesn't believe him and asks to see the will.
Celia visits Paul, that's the more civilised discussion when Paul gives her the atlas and the ticket. The rest you know.
Yeah that sounds correct. Thanks furiousfran, that clears a lot of things up. Great film!
shareI don't think Andrew contacts her.
Andrew sees Celia walking along the side of the road after she had been to see Paul, who gave her the atlas and ticket. (I assume) Andrew tells her about the inheritance, and she goes back to his place.
It is a little confusing. However I loved this movie.
Celia finds photo in Paul's wallet.
Celia confronts her mum and she tells her daughter the truth (re: her origin)
Celia confronts Paul about this (scene where she snaps, "How do you live with yourself?!")
Celia finally visits Paul - probably a week or so later after he e-mails her, although she doesn't want to (when he's reading her stor on the porch) and he gives her the atlas and ticket.
Celia is picked up by Andrew as she is walking home. He tells her all about the will - something Paul or her mother hasn't told her. His wife, Penny kills her (albeit accidentally), as in the fatal moment she misunderstands the situation and thinks he is having an affair with Celia.
Andrew takes the blame for his wife.
paul and Jackie hug each other outside the burning den
The events are relayed out of order - keeping in synch with the emotional narrative - as opposed being literal in terms of "this happened and then that..." etc.
okay that was my point too,but still...in the scene in which paul is burning leaves celia is accusing him of abandoning her and her mom which make us believe that she is conveiced that paul is her father.this means that in the previous scene where celia asks her mother "is he my father?" and she answers "i wish it were so simple" there is a huge mistake in the plot and the story telling of the movie,because only in this scene-where celia asks her mother- could be explained of how celia knew in the final that paul is her half brother.so even if her mother told her the truth why is she accusing paul making the audience believe that paul is her father in the burning the leaves scene?it doesnt make sence.
i also liked the film but i think this is a terrible mistake which ruins its integrity and making it incomplete.i mean we have details of the sexual life of paul and his brother too and controverse informations of how celia knew the truth right before she dies?this is a big minus in the rating scale.
I watched this again because I like to see if a movie like this (with multiple flash-backs) has consistency issues. In looking again, I think she's angry because he left even though she knows he is her brother (half-brother). She's angry for the same reason that his brother is angry--he left them all, including her mother, and walked out of the whole situation for 16 years. Just because he wasn't her father did not mean that he, in her mind, should just walk away. She was angry because he knew about her parentage but didn't tell her and that he had walked away from her mother. It doesn't necessarilly ruin the integrity, it just leaves things more open until the end. Things are left perhaps too intentionally ambiguous at that point, but it just makes you think about it and maybe watch again. I like that in a movie. I think it also makes the scene where he gives her the ticket and says goodbye even more poignant.
sharePaul did not know about Celia until he returned for his dad's funeral. Thats when he discovered that Jamie had a child by his father. It was by accident, he saw a picture of a baby in his dad's atlas a later realized it was Jamie holding the baby. So he really didnt abandon Celia. He left because he
found out about his dad and Jamie having a thing.
I had the same query after seeing it tonight. Thanks everyone for the explanations!
shareHello.
Paul's brother told Celia about the money left to her from his father, not about the fatherhood.
That's interesting. For some reason I didn't think Celia's mother told her who her real father was. I thought she didn't want to disturb her that much and just confirmed her belief that Paul really was her father.
I thought Andrew(?) told her the truth, or maybe the reaction of Andrew's wife made her realize the truth.
But I've only seen it once (last night) and may be completely wrong.
Another possibility is that; as her mother was sleeping with Paul and his father in the same period, she can not be sure witch one of them is actually her father (unless they did a DNA test, which I don't think they did). and that is why her mothered answered her, "I wish it was that simple"
OTOH, there is a scene where Paul's dad walks in on Paul and Jaxx having sex, and advises them to be careful. "I am always careful", Paul replies, indicating that the pregnancy is a result of Paul's father not following his own acvice.
EXCELLENT point. thank you
shareI think maybe Celia went with Andrew out of curiosity. She already knew that she was Paul's half-sister, and therefore Andrew's half-sister. But she didn't know Andrew very well, and maybe she was curious to find out more about him. That's why when at the house, Andrew told her to wait outside, she still went inside to look around the house, because she was curious about that side of the family. On the outside, this family looked "normal"...but instead, she found out too late that it was seriously dysfunctional, and was killed for it.
Although Andrew seemed like the one who was the most responsible of the two brothers, and the seemingly most "normal"...he really wasn't because he couldn't let go of the past, and the family secret. And that's what made him so dysfunctional in his own family, and the most remote and uncommunicative. He was not able to let go of his Mom, and he was not able to let go of what his father did to the family. Paul, on the other hand, though seemingly the most mixed up and emotionally distant brother...turns out to be able to survive better because he was able to let go...and move on, sort of. And by embracing Celia, he was able to make peace with his father, his mother, Jackie, with his brother, and with what happened in the family, eventually. That was why he could let go of Celia to travel to Spain. But Andrew, on the other hand, could not...and brought her back to his home, to die accidentally by his wife. And because he still could not let go...he took the blame for everything. As it turns out, he turns out to be the most tragic figure of the story. Paul, ironically, is able to heal and move forward from the past.
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I think you hit the nail on the head. There is no way to be sure of the parentage without a DNA test. From early on, Paul believes he is the father. The mother refuses to answer Paul but tells Celia, "I wish it were that simple." Paul defends her as a father would from Jackie's deadbeat boyfriend. Andrew as a possible half-sibling does not. ( But Andrew is also damaged goods- possibly by a hinted at sexual relationship with his mother.)
shareI believe there's still a problem. When Paul gives Celia the atlas she says "so you knew about your dad and my mum?" Paul says "Yes, but I didn't know about you though"
This suggests that Paul knew at that point that his dad had fathered Celia, and yet he seems to only discover that later (after Celia has died) when he extracts the truth from Andrew at the end of a shotgun barrel.
And why does Celia come shouting at him (Paul) when he is burning leaves, saying "you knew!" (presumably she means, "you knew who my dad was"). Surely he didn't know at this point?
Can anyone explain this?
sc_taylor on Sun Dec 16 2007 16:07:55 wrote:
I believe there's still a problem. When Paul gives Celia the atlas she says "so you knew about your dad and my mum?" Paul says "Yes, but I didn't know about you though"That doesn't necessarily mean they were talking about the same thing. Paul can be still thinking (or wishfully thinking) he's her father. He doesn't know what changes happened to the birth registration, and could still be wanting to believe that it initially had his name as the father. Despite being careful, he could have become a father, since contraceptive methods aren't 100% effective. Jaxx is a fairly wayward character, so it's not impossible. She became pregnant before the time he left, not afterwards. Even when Celia says "Adios, brother", Paul doesn't have to think of the word literally.
This suggests that Paul knew at that point that his dad had fathered Celia, and yet he seems to only discover that later (after Celia has died) when he extracts the truth from Andrew at the end of a shotgun barrel.He acts as though he doesn't want to believe what (as Andrew says) he saw with his own eyes. Maybe it's only then that he acknowledges what he didn't want to believe. There's certainly a major change in his thinking after that discussion. That seems consistent with someone forced to acknowledge what they've not wanted to.
And why does Celia come shouting at him (Paul) when he is burning leaves, saying "you knew!" (presumably she means, "you knew who my dad was"). Surely he didn't know at this point?Again, Celia and Paul aren't necessarily talking about the same thing. She asks him "Did you know?" He doesn't say he did, but the audience is led to believe (at this stage) that Paul is thinking he is Celia's father. Paul is thinking that at that stage. Misunderstandings are a feature of life, and for damaged people such as Paul, communication breakdown can be even more common.
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Misunderstandings are a feature of life, and for damaged people such as Paul, communication breakdown can be even more common.
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thats a good point...if you consider that missunderstanding is a sort of leit-motif in this film and that the accidental killing of celia was consequence of a wrong interpretation by andrews wife
paul knows he is celias brother from the time he visits jackie in the butcher with the photo and she tells him to "just leave it" she could not have done this if he was her father - he would have some sort of rights. this is what the director says. therefore he did know her father was his dad when she comes and yells at him and when he gives her the atlas.
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us - Gandalf
i believe that she says "just leave it" because she is protecting Paul from the skeletons in the closet. Rather than merely discovering that Celia is actually his half-sister, he will come to realize the true incidents behind his mother's suicide. He may then not only break down psychologically but may come to be repulsed by both Jackie and Celia, even though the latter is wholly innocent. Andrew himself sees Celia as the reason and reminder of his beloved mother's death; refers to her as that uncouth thing, ie bastard, or something to that effect. So, Jax doesn't think that Paul knows about Fred being Celia's real dad.
He finds this out (but not the audience) after he is confronted by Celia. At the farewell scene, Celia says' 'adios, brother'. at this stage they had already talked about (second from last flashback) whether paul had known about 'mum and your father'; Pauls replies, 'yes, but not about you'.
Later, she is picked up by Andrew and ends up dead, her bag being thrown in the trash. Paul is suspected, naturally; Andrew supresses the truth. Paul finds out the truth after Andrew confesses (river scene). At that point Andrew may not have known that Paul had already found out about Celia being his half-sister. which is convenient because we the audience are then privy to the truth behind their mother's death, celia's birth, all to good dramatic effect. hope i've got it right!