MovieChat Forums > House of Flying Daggers (2004) Discussion > Perfect representation of men and women.

Perfect representation of men and women.


*SPOILRES*

This movie in my opinion was a perfect and realistic representation of both men and women. Women being indecisive, mind-changing, unsympathetic, unappreciative, and manipulative. Men on the other hand are head-strong, stupid, decisive, self-sacrificing, and sincere.

The two men in this movie give everything for her, and she wanders along daftly the whole time barely noticing.

In the end we all learn that she really loved Leo, so why did she just screw some other guy she met 3 days ago? Because she's a women, that's why, she could probably make up some elaborate, irrational excuse to weasel out of taking responsibility for it too.

The men try to rape her, Jin fairly redeemable since he was drunk in a brothel, but Leo was pretty stupid about the whole thing, instead of raping her he should have stood up and said "stupid bloody woman make up your friggin mind".

Leo and Jin need to be slapped in the face for wanting to be with a women who is so obviously screwing them over, and Mei should also be slapped for screwing them around in the first place.

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that's some good satire.

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Someone's a little bitter...

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[deleted]

The commentary, with Zhang Yimou and Ziyi, is worth hearing, as it details the changes in the characters as the story proceeds. Both Mei and Jin are lying to each other from the beginning; but Jin saves her life at several points, and that begins to change her.

And he begins changing as she shows (as part of her act) herself to be sensitive, as with the scene where she discovers the flowers. (I found that scene quite compelling, even on rewatching and knowing of her central deceit.)

In short, both begin discovering the other is essentially decent, and feeling guilty about deceiving the other. (Otherwise I found the plot overly simplistic -- which is perhaps why the deceits were necessary: to give it a relatively fake/grafted-on "cover" of complexity.)

Listen to the commentary and all that (and more) will be made clear. (Key is when they're traveling through the woods: at first she holds the sword scabbard as he leads her. But eventually she is holding his hand.)

Otherwise, I didn't much buy the ending, where she takes a month to die, then Jin and Leo have the knock-down drag-out fight that lasts at least three months, all while Leo has that dagger "stored" in his shoulder, until it comes in handy.

And then it turns out she isn't dead after all, so another month and a half goes by while the three of them argue. And then she throws the knife she had stored in her chest and MISSES her intended target!

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Her target was whatever Leo would have been throwing towards Jin. It could have been a dagger, but he decided to send only a drop of blood. Which was intercepted by her knife. She didn't miss.

Words, Mr. Sullivan, are precious things, and they are not to be tempered with!

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So she decided to die in order to show off her ability to hit the irrelevant. Smart? Not so much.

In addition, the knife didn't hit it's target hard enough to cause it to "react" as violently as it did.

All in all, I'll stick with "The Road Home". And "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon".

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My interpretation of the final duel:

Mei tells Leo that if Leo throws the dagger at Jin, she will kill Leo with the dagger that was currently piercing her heart. Jin starts walking towards Leo and away from Mei, and, as he knew that she would actually draw to save him instead of killing Leo, screams that she cannot save him anymore, since Leo's dagger would reach him before hers could intercept it. Leo hears this and is thus convinced that, if he throws, she will kill him (Leo). It makes him even more mad at Jin too, as if it was possible. At the same time, Mei throws a desperate look at Jin while shaking her had as in "NO!! I CAN still save you! I WON'T let him kill you!", then looks back at Leo with a fierce expression. Leo gets again more mad, looks back at Jin furiously, thinks "damn you both, I will be together with her in death while you'll be squirming in despair in the hours I'll allow you to live!! Plus, there's a drop of blood to you, so that you know that you had been completely at my mercy, and that I was the one who left you in agony!", and shoots - a drop of blood. Then Mei shoots her dagger - maybe to protect Jin, maybe to show them both that she would protect Jin at all costs (in case she had indeed read Leo, and knew that he wouldn't throw), maybe to show Leo that her love was stronger than both her own anger at Leo (making her throw to protect and not to revenge), and than Leo's anger at Jin (so her love in the shape of a dagger would have saved Jin, no matter how physically impossible it was and no matter how fast Leo's pain and fury, in the shape of a dagger or of a drop of blood, would have raced towards Jin). She smiles goodbye to Leo, and throws one last passionate look at Jin. And finally dies for good (...unlike the previous 3 times when she died but came back).

Words, Mr. Sullivan, are precious things, and they are not to be tempered with!

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You freakin' idiots are all wrong.

Basically the whole movie goes back and forth between who Mei really loves, so the OP is technically right about that part: although stating that it's how all women are isn't completely true.

The final incident has no big symbols or hidden agenda's that you all seem to think there are. They were all on the brink of death, so it's actually the first time anyone does anything straight forward WITHOUT a hidden agenda.

Leo is threatening to kill Jin with his dagger, and Mei is threatening to kill Leo if he tries to kill Jin. Leo PRETENDS to throw his dagger to see if Mei would REALLY kill him, OR HERSELF, for Jin: which she does, proving that she loved Jin.

There is no symbolism in the drop of blood other than to show that Leo didn't really throw his dagger, and that Mei really did chose to give her life for Jin.

Think about if she HADN'T thrown her dagger (in essence killing herself). Then Jin would be spit-balled with a bit of blood, and it would prove that she loved Leo. But she loved Jin, so she made her move to save him.

Sad ending really - like all asian dramas... But it really teaches you to express your feelings when you feel them, and not waste time hiding yourself from those you love. It's also interesting to note that everything that happens in this story, all the way up until Mei throws her dagger in the finale, is fake. All the relationships between the main characters are fake, their feelings are all fake, and even some of the battles are fake. Nothing is real until Mei throws her dagger at the very end of the movie.

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*Bad* idea to begin your message like that. Very bad.

Words, Mr. Sullivan, are precious things, and they are not to be tempered with!

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[deleted]

Still bad.

Words, Mr. Sullivan, are precious things, and they are not to be tempered with!

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by - jnagarya-1 on Tue May 5 2009 19:31:16

And then she throws the knife she had stored in her chest and MISSES her intended target!
LOL...

I love it when pretentious douchey know-it-alls expose themselves as dopes.


The Doctor is out. Far out.

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Then cease being pretentious, as if you are an expert on two things you don't do:

1. Write.

2. Make films.

I suspect there's more to the film than meets the superficial eye. At the same time, I wouldn't say it's the best film I've ever seen. That would go to very few candidates, one being "A Man for All Seans," and another being Zhang Yimou's "The Road Home".

But -- go right on ahead pretending you're superior to those who engage in crafts about which you know little.

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I think you meant to respond to jnagarya.


The Doctor is out. Far out.

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What a stupid, bitter, misogynist post (actually, more than misogyny it purports at the same time negative and totally false stereotypes about both men and women).

You must have had a problem with a deceitful woman, that does not allow you to draw conclusions about the whole of womankind. I could, for myself, say from experience that sometimes, women can be true, sincere, faithful and self-sacrificing while the men are mind-changing, selfish and deceitful.
But at least I'm aware this is no general rule.

The love triangle can be seen as stereotypical, but certaily not as a reflection of a general reality.
Mei has nothing to do with what is depicted in this post, she is, I think, genuinely divided between those two men. Her older lover makes the mistake of thinking she belongs to him and he has "earned" her, but the fact is that you don't decide who you're in love with. Unfortunately, if one thing in this film reflects reality, it's the idea that love has nothing to do with merit, or with being grateful/ungrateful. You can't help loving or not loving someone. So even if it seems unfair that she should fall for a guy she barely knows when another guy had made sacrifices for her, she can't force herself to love the guy who "deserves" it the most...

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Great post and agreed on all points. Just watched it again last night and came here to get insights on the ending :)

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