MovieChat Forums > Hooligans (2005) Discussion > Tommy Hatcher can't locate The Major? * ...

Tommy Hatcher can't locate The Major? * SPOILERS *

posted 8 years ago by velvetcrimson
9 replies | jump to latest

Ok, so Tommy Hatcher can't figure out Steve's (The Major) home address even if he wants to have his revenge on him so badly that he wants to kill him? He has to wait until someone spots Steve in his old pub hangout to go find him.

Hatcher was evidently prepared to burn down the pub and stab Steve to death, why did he never just go home to Steve and burn his house down instead? He actually had to wait all these years for Steve to go down to the pub?

What's really confusing about it is that Shannon decides to leave England for the US now that Tommy is on a revenge spree. As if it would have been completely unthinkable for Tommy to show up at their door at any given time over all these years. I just fail to see what mysterious deal was broken between Steve and Tommy once Steve decided to go into his old pub to fetch Matt.
In fact, wouldn't it have been way easier for Tommy to break into Steve's home and assault his wife and kid while Steve was at work every day?

[–] cole_fischer 8 years ago

I've been trying to figure out a way to argue your point, only because this is one of my favorite movies. This may be a bit of a stretch, but this is all I got.

My guess is, there are unwritten rules when it comes to the "Firms". It was clearly stated they are not gangs, and they do not go around with guns killing people.

It is possible a couple of their unwritten rules are:
1. You cannot pursue a personal vendetta in someones home.
2. All fights stop if someone is killed like it did when Pete died. We did not see the actual moment of Tommy's kid being killed, so this one might be a stretch.

Again, this is me grasping at straws trying to defend a movie I love.

[–] velvetcrimson 8 years ago

I totally agree with you, this is one of my favorite movies so I let it pass everytime I watch it. But I really can't help myself thinking that this scene/episode was just sloppy writing.

Your first point may be valid. But given Hatcher's obsession with the Major, it's a bit strange that he in that case didn't confront the Major outside his office or favorite shoe store. And if point number one is true, Shannon and the baby would never really be in any danger as long as they stay at home. So why leave the country?

Your second point is a bit besides the point actually. It may explain why Hatcher didn't attempt to kill the Major right there and then after his kid was killed, but not why he would wait years to retaliate.

But again, this is one of my favorite movies too so this thing doesn't make the movie bad or anything. It's just a peculiar thing that doesn't make a whole lot of sense the more I think of it. I'm certainly not claiming to be a better writer than the people behind Green Street but there must have been more sensible scenarios to build it on. For example, Hatcher could have been led to believe that the Major moved to the US with Shannon. That would have explained why he got both surprised and upset to find out the Major was back in his old pub hangout all of a sudden.

Another peculiar thing in the movie is the well known and wide spread hate against journalists among the firms. It would make sense that politicians or high ranking officials would have a firm opinion about news media and journalism. But beer drinking football hooligans don't strike me as dedicated critics on modern journalism. It just feels a bit like lazy writing again. They could just have made Matt a lawyer instead. Everyone hates lawyers. Or at least come up with some explanation to why the GSE hated journalists to that extreme.

Again (for the third time I think), it's a great movie and none of this makes it a lesser movie in my opinion. In fact, I think it's a good sign when you start thinking of plot elements like this long after you've seen it. I've seen far more stupid (and actual) plot holes in movies I forgot the title of fifteen minutes later, and I certainly didn't bother to start a discussion about it on imdb.

[–] cole_fischer 8 years ago

But given Hatcher's obsession with the Major, it's a bit strange that he in that case didn't confront the Major outside his office or favorite shoe store. And if point number one is true, Shannon and the baby would never really be in any danger as long as they stay at home. So why leave the country?

Keep in mind, the firms are in different towns/cities. I don't think it's realistic to go a town over find out where someone works/lives/shops. Especially when that person is a local legend. I am wondering if Hatcher "let it go" for lack of better terms, because Steve left the firm. The only reason why I think that is because he took immediate action once Bovver told him he was at the pub. Perhaps Hatcher thought the Major was back with the firm because he was there. The bar tender did say something along the lines of "We've been waiting for many years for our Major to return".

Another peculiar thing in the movie is the well known and wide spread hate against journalists among the firms.

My take on this, and I think I'm close to being right, is that the firms don't want the community to know who they are. The morning after the first match when Pete takes Matt go get breakfast and Matt asks him what firms are. Pete hushed him immediately because other people were around told him not to talk about it. Another supporting reason is the firm was extremely upset when they found Matt's diary and all of their names and descriptions were listed.

I agree with you, it is always a good thing to analyze a movie, and dig deeper into it. It can make you see a movie in a whole new way.

[–] daveyh (583) 2 years ago

"Keep in mind, the firms are in different towns/cities. I don't think it's realistic to go a town over find out where someone works/lives/shops."
The biggest rivals in english football are often based in the same city and geographically very close in that city. For example Everton and Liverpool are only separated by a park.
Likewise West Ham and Millwall are both in the east side of London so fans would live and work among each other, which is why local derby victories are often talked about as bragging rights in the pubs and workplaces. Because fans of both clubs would be in these places.
Therefore Hatcher wouldn't have had to travel out of his way to locate the Major.
Like you say though, if he was spotted casing the major's place it could be a huge problem for him

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] velvetcrimson 8 years ago

I'm not really sure what you mean by that. While it's true that the firms mostly organize fights during match days, it wouldn't stop them from starting a fight any other day, just like in the opening scene. And they were pretty much drunk all the time so that was no exception. Besides, Tommy Hatcher's obsession with revenge on The Major went far beyond settling some fight score between two rivaling firms. This was personal. Hatcher wanted The Major dead, and he was even prepared to hurt his wife and kid in the process. This was completely out of line of hooligan protocol. And the night where Hatcher went after The Major in his old pub was not a game night anyway. Hatcher obviously didn't care much about rules, policy or protocol. It just a peculiar plot point that The Major going down to his pub would set Hatcher on fire. I'm pretty sure he could have found him in his house or outside his office any day of the week.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] mikeyg24 8 years ago

I think you guys need to understand this isn't the mob! Tommy appears to run his own business, he's got a lot to lose. Just walking over to the West End and killing or even attacking The Major finishes all that. But the Major back in The Abbey, a pub probably with a reputation for trouble? That's perfect. Also I also wondered if deep down Tommy even genuinely blamed The Major for his kid. I don't think his hatred for Steve was revenge as much as absolution for himself.

Hey! You're not old enough to drink! Now go and die for your country!!!

[–] daveyh (583) 2 years ago

i think just setting foot in that pub again was enough for him to be considered "back in the game". That's why he promised his family he wouldn't go there again - not even on a weekday daytime for a quiet game of pool.
No-one but Frodo and Jax knew that he was only there that night to get his brother-in-law out of the firing line. I don't think Shannon understood this either - I'd have to watch the full movie again (or not!) but I thought she left because her husband had betrayed her trust by becoming involved again rather than for her own safety.