Question about the ending...
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Did the mother die as well, or did she survive the crash?
I think everybody died!
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MovieChat Forums > The Dying Gaul Discussion > Question about the ending...
the police officer on the phone says there were no survivors.
But he is most devestated about the children, and thats why he cries for them.
I didn't get it tha way; I ubderstood the children survived, and the oficer (on the phone) said there would be a need for identification. But it wasn't really clear to me.
shareeveryone died in the crash
shareYeah, I thought that everyone died in the crash...but are we supposed to believe that Elaine ate the poisoned salad while she was driving, in which case Robert murdered all of them?
shareYes, upon review I agree that all died. Did she eat the salad? I think so. It (the plant root) was described as affecting the central nervous system. So he could be responsible. Was this an act of her own inhtent? If so, why was the salad featured as available next to her in the car? I think he did it (we know he intended to) and Robert made his statement that way.
shareI understood they all died. But I thought the husband said, "She ran into a wall." So I assumed she intended to kill all of them. Before they got in the car she told the maid that she would drive.
shareShe did run into a wall, but only because she was had died from the poison and the car was no longer under her control at the time of the crash. Since no time had elapsed for an autopsy in which the poison might manifest in her system, the police and the husband, could only assume she intentionally killed herself and the kids.
shareI think she planned to kill herself. After Robert told her that Jeffrey actually talked about it, she decided to beat him to the punch AND take away what he cared about the most to punish him.
Hopelessly in love with Uma Thurman, Maggie Gyllenhaal, and Emmy Rossum
Mabye, but if she was going to kill herself, would she run into a wall? Plus, there's the Medea twist. Running into a wall couldn't guarantee killing the kids; and doesn't she buckle them up? If she really wanted them all to die, I think a cliff or ravine would be a lot better. It seems significant that we hear she ran into a wall, so I assume she ate the root, especially since we were explicitly told how the poison in the root works, shutting down muscle control - that really makes running into a wall seem likely. It did also seem like she saw him tamper with her salad though, so I'm not sure whether she knew what she was eating. And if she did, what would that mean?
shareyeah but why end it all like that? is it intended as "everyone gets whats coming to then" retribution for the husband? i just thought it was too abrupt.
shareRe ending, I have an alternative explanation. She knew (or thought) from Robert that her husband Jeffrey wished her dead. She sees the salad (the box slipped out of her bag in the car) with something strange in it (the root shavings were all on top, and they did not look like any regular salad ingredient), understands what Robert did, and now realizes Robert ALSO wishes her dead. She is fascinated, as she questions Robert at the beginning, by the possibility of "unconditional love" and where does one find it. May be she kills herself to make it possible for the 2 men to be together. Either she thinks the relationship of Robert & Jeffrey may be as strong as she read in the script about Robert & Malcolm (and therefore there is no place for her), or she loves her husband so much she wants him to know that kind of love. After all, Robert had left a wife and a child to be with Malcolm, so may be it is Jeffry's turn (she did not give him a chance to explain anything when she confronted him). Comments welcome!
BTW I googled "arrowroot" and eating a few shavings would certainly not shut down your nervous system. The accident had nothing to do with poisoning by the salad. See http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/poison/Zamiasp.htm
Isn't it possible that running into a wall was meant as symbolism, a metaphor for Elaine's life at that point? And why would even a deranged woman try to eat something as cumbersome as a salad while driving a car? I believe the salad was a red herring, used to signify Robert's intent to get even with the woman who had manipulated his wounded psyche just to further her own ends. In the end, the salad was not needed, as its purpose was served by her own selfish desire to rob Jeffrey of the things he claimed to love most in life.
shareI agree. They show you the salad slipping out of the bad to let you think she's going to eat it but I believe it was just that - for you to think. I believe she intentionally ran into the wall as patrick batman 77401 stated.
~*We were born to love one another*~
My take on this is that she did NOT intend to kill herself as she told Jeffery to go ahead and have him as it will make her "suit easier if they are open about it".. Unless someone here has seen the play this was based on, we do not know whether she actually ate the salad or not..but Im guessing what happened was she did and since it effected her nervous system and she lost control of the vehicle, killing them all. But this is only a guess or the director would have shown us what happened...he wanted us to wonder about it as it gives the film more impact.
sharewhat bugs me is that if i found a twig in my salad i wouldn't eat it, i doubt it would taste that good either. :P
shareBut he is most devestated about the children, and thats why he cries for them.
I'm pretty sure he is devastated about his wife too. Didn't he say he loved her and needed her when confronting Robert about the whole situation? Correct me if I am wrong.
"I was just sending up a prayer of thanks." share
He might have loved her, but the poster was referring to what devestated Jeffrey the most, and that seemed to be the death of the kids.
I also thought that it's not sure what he says is true, whether he knows it himself or not. He tells us early on that most American people hate gays and that could be a driving force for him not only in choosing not to produce a gay film, but also in covincing himself that he's not gay, he's bi, or that if he is bi, the person he doesn't just love but is in love with is the woman in his life, not the man.
And lastly, I think the ending of the movie is intentionally open for interpretation. I tend to think the wife drove herself and the kids into the wall, mostly because - (A) if we're shown the salad untouched when she gets into the car, when did she have the chance to eat from it and be affected enough to bring about the accident? (B) for the children in the back seat to be killed by hitting the wall, I tend to think you'd need to accelerate the car before the collision, while the effect of hallucinations, I'd imagine, would only be to take them off the road.
Nevertheless, Robert's intent makes him almost as guilty, whether the accident was a result of his deeds or not (well, this goes for the death of the wife, at least, the death of the children - arguable and here it does make a difference whether the wife intentionally drove everyone into the wall or not).
I wonder what takes place between Robert and Jeff after the accident, and after Robert closes the door, thus signaling Jeff is there to stay, at least for a while...
I used to have a , but damnit do I want a !share
I thought the ending was ambiguous. It would be very difficult to eat a salad while driving, and she makes it clear that she wants to drive. I think the screenwriter intended the ambiguity, combining those facts with the "she went into a wall". "She just lost control and we have no idea why" leads you believe it's murder. Running into a wall sounds deliberate.
I use Arrowroot powder all the time. You can get it at Dean and DeLuca. It thickens sauces.
The root "poisoned" her (not poison-poison, but even slightly losing her nervous system could be a disaster while driving a car). . . that was the implication of the movie. If she was going to off herself, she wouldn't have went back and gotten her bag with her lunch in it before leaving. She wouldn't have made sure the children were buckled up. She wouldn't have gotten her daughter a stuffed animal for the short ride of death. She wouldn't have asked Robert to stay with Jeffrey to help her case (divorce). We wouldn't have seen the salad at the end of the movie with the root on top of it (we are ONLY fed that line of dialogue about the root so that we would know what it was capable of -- otherwise it was a waste of time and pointless dialogue). She had no intention of killing herself . . . she'd have been fine without her husband (she had a career before him and I am sure she could have a career after him).
shareI disagree with all this.
There was no time to eat the salad. Nobody eats a dry salad like chips with one hand while they are driving. People who lose control of cars haphazardly do not run into walls at speeds that kill everyone in the car. Robert chewed some of the root and suffered no dramatic or immediate effects.
The argument about what she said about the divorce means nothing. She was in a desperate and uncertain state of mind. She didn't know what she was going to do. Prepping the kids and grabbing the bag can all be explained as habitual, and in any case, nothing about that sequence suggested planned behavior as you suggest. Quite the opposite. Watch Clarkson's performance - she was nervous and freaked out, not calm and calculating. I gathered that she probably decided to kill them all on impulse after the drive began.
They showed us the salad to tease us - make us wonder whether she would eat it, probably hope she wouldn't - so they could sucker punch us with the surprise suicide crash. In my view, it didn't work all that well, as I didn't care enough about the characters to be on the edge of my seat about what might happen to any of them.
I agree the salad is a tease for the audience---and for Robert. For much of Jeffery's phone conversation with the cop, we---and Robert, got the impression that the trio died of poisoning. Only the last sentence from Jeff, and incidentally, also the last thing said in the movie, explained that it's a car crash. This is supposed to be a shock for all of us, just as we thought we got what's coming.
The taking-salad-for-suicide doesn't make sense. First, as many pointed out, eating unseasoned salad while driving doesn't look very plausible; did anyone notice it was a garden spring mix? Great with vinaigrette, but perhaps the least palatable salad to be had without dressing. Secondly, if she decided to take it as poison (therefore taste won't be a deterrent), what about the children? Nothing prepared us for the Medea twist, because there's no Medea twist. Patricia Clarkson is such a great actress that, regardless of the plot, SHE would have suggested something, with subtle facial expression or body language.
It is interesting to read about the suicide angle. It is also certainly easy to deduct it as the salad. There are some good points here as well as other way far over read situations.
As the movie unfolded towards the end, I was hoping and predicting multiple angles as of how it might be. As any well observed writers out there, one would think that Robert might have the intelligence and sensitivity to guess who ARchangel was and devised his own scheming plan. This plan would later be divulged by Robert after the deceptive Clarkson character's magnanimous own rendition. This, of course, would drive the woman to embarrassment to ultimately madness? maybe? Robert's plan as we would know in eventuality is in entirety a work of fiction that he is working on. It is part of his revenge for compromising his original ideology/story.
Psychological killing is so much more meaty and deviously delicious than physically poisoning or killing by knifing someone. The sex might be hinted or even showed in dream/fantasy forms. With that said, you can make it as raunchy as you want. The truth behind this concept can be made to be less overt. Imply much, show even more but be vague of the fact. It is so mysterious that way.
In general I like the movie well enough. 7.5 out of 10. I like the camera work, a la Demme at times. I didnt care for the chat room scenerio. It seems so implausible and high schoolish. Cruel Intentions anyone? Three trials and she found the guy...in LA of all places, puh-lease. I guess there is no other ways to get the story moving. And I couldnt help the "play" feel about it either.
The root thing was a total foreshadowing device, although I dont think she died from it, a nice distracting ploy that was. I can't think of anyone who can eat a salad while driving...except me. I eat salad like rabbits, shoving it in by hands without any dressings. I like it plain. Not very attractive or even decent table manners if you ever the opportunity to see this zoo animal in action.
Besides that point and about the ending: I believe the kids survive but the conniving bored housewife did die (as was excellent played by Clarkson). I never cared for Scott but his later work is becoming more enjoyable. Peter was awesome. He is great through and through since Shattered Glass with the exception of the terribly miscast Jarhead.
If you look in the DVD extras, you may find the answer that you are looking for.
The whole "poison root and salad" addition does muddy then end of the movie (in my opinion). In the original Craig Lucas stage play there is no reference to any poison root. At the end of the play, Elaine intentionally drives the car into a retaining wall ... killing herself and the children.
Some of the plot holes in the stage play have been re-written to make more sense ... Elaine's suicide/matracide has more solid reasoning behind it in the movie.
On the whole, I thought the movie was really good.
Excellent acting from all the leads.
I think the poison root thing was just to add a tragic twist to the poor gay guy. Very greek.now he has all this guilt to contend with besides the other baggage. If you watch the alternate ending on the dvd it really reveals that point more. I thought the movie was one of the best of the year .
shareshe lets him know she was "arkangel" he puts this *beep* in her salad. she's obviously a vindictive bitch and has private investigators and a divorce suit she's angling in the works.
he puts the *beep* in her salad and she crashed the car!!!
this movie is a piece of crap!!!!
i don't know. the "poor gay guy" didn't seem to be feeling very guilty at the end. look at his face. he got what he wanted. sure her attempts suicide by eating the root, but then he realizes, "wait. why don't i just kill her instead? i did it before." i didn't feel bad for any of them.
i do honestly believe that they wanted us to believe that she was eating the salad in the car and that it would be strong enough to cause her to crash the car. they should have just left the root out of it and had her commit suicide. it would have added at least a slightly bigger impact to an incredibly lackluster ending.
overall, i would say that it was far from one of the best of the year. good performances can only add up to so much. the script and direction were awful, and the pace was incredibly choppy. i wanted it to be so much better.
She left a note (the boys read it in the apartment) He says, "She wouldn't really hurt herself, would she?" She killed them all - but it was so out of character - a strong woman, taking control of her husband's lover by fabricating his dead lover - I can see her killing THEM, but not herself.
shareI don't think we are meant to know.
If you watch the alternate ending, Robert talks about how he doesn't know what happened. It could have been the salad, it could have been suicide, it could have been an accident. He doesn't know and he never will be able to.
The viewer is in his position, not knowing whether he did it or not. He has to judge himself without knowing and so do we. Does it change who he is if she died from the salad?
rent the DVD and watch the alternate ending. It gives an interesting view of Robert.
share[deleted]
First of all, it was monkshood, not arrowroot, that Sarsgaard tried to kill himself with before shaving it into Clarkson's salad. Monkshood was used to poison enemy water supplies during times of war in ancient Europe and Asia. Hunters used its sap to poison spears, arrowheads & trap baits, as well.
That settled, if you watch the movie more than once you'll also find out that everyone in Scott's family dies in that crash. He's left with nothing.
Suicide? Murder? I don't know that it matters that much to Sarsgaard's character. He certainly intended to kill her or else he wouldn't have poisoned that salad.
Did anyone notice that Scott assumed the exact pose as The Dying Gaul sculpture in the final shot? Did anyone notice Sarsgaard's reaction to Scott's emotional devastation? I mean, Scott has just lost his entire family and all Sarsgaard does is sit on the steps and look at him.
Think about how cavalierly Scott gutted Sarsgaard's script, how he said that no one would care about the tragedy of two gay men but they would about a heterosexual couple. Remember, this is a script that came out of a promise Sarsgaard made to his lover as he was going through that horriffic AIDS treatment ("promise me you'll make something out of this").
Think about that and the fact that, for a short while, Clarkson gave Sarsgaard his lover back (Arckangel) then took him away when she revealed that it was her, think about all this when the ending comes and see if that doesn't explain some of what's happened. (Clarkson's motivations are a little more clouded, but still fascinating to ponder.)
I loved the movie. The acting was excellent, especially Sarsgaard. When he has that breakdown moment with Scott during their first sex scene? Wow. He's quickly becoming my favorite actor.
richwar, thank you for an excellent analysis! You've helped increase my appreciation and understanding of the film, which I loved btw.
Sarsgaard was amazing in it. One of the best male orgasm scenes ever! ;) (And I didn't think he was miscast at all in Jarhead.)
"She killed them all - but it was so out of character - a strong woman, taking control of her husband's lover by fabricating his dead lover - I can see her killing THEM, but not herself."
I agree with the above post. Also, Richwar - wonderful thoughts/analysis.
"It's alright; 's alright." Jack Twist
Hi! Can anyone tell me what Elaine says to Robert right before Roberts gets the deadly plants and first starts to eat them himself. Elaine says something stinging that sends Robert running to the plants.
Thanks!
Elaine: "Arkangell is dead, Robert."
Robert: "What?"
Elaine: "He had to be deleted from his hard drive. He doesn't even have a floppy anymore. Nothing. (Pause) 'Self Salvation for all of us.' Thanks."
Robert: "How?"
Elaine: "The nice thing is: you will never know. Thieves and hackers, unlike screenwriters, feel no need to leave their name emblazoned all over their work."
It never occurred to me that the car crash was suicide. The only thing I was confused about at the end was whether or not the kids died as well. I rewinded it just to listen again.
She was definitely vindictive because she messed with Robert (though that was warranted given the whole affair thing...), but I never got the feeling during the movie that she was cold blooded enough to kill her kids. A poster above mentioned that in the original play she did in fact commit suicide, but they also said that changes were made between the scripts. Hmmm...
I watched the alternate ending on the DVD and when Robert was getting massaged I was wondering if it was supposed to imply that the small amount of root that he did injest effected his system a bit. I have nothing to base that on (wasn't he moaning kinda funny though?), I just thought that there must have been some sort of reason that they would show him getting a massage as opposed to... anything else. Patricia Clarkson's character (theoretically) ate the root unknowingly and would have injested enough to kill her. Robert maybe got some on his teeth or deeper in his mouth, but then he had chlorine water in his mouth and all that.
Just some thoughts I had to add to an already well-covered issue/topic.