MovieChat Forums > Accepted (2006) Discussion > Why the attack on the traditional colleg...

Why the attack on the traditional college experience?


I just recently graduated so this struck a nerve with me. But, this movie in my opinion basically is just an attempt to degredate the traditional college experience and create a "feel good" movie for lazy, under-accomplished teens. My college experience, as well as all my friends', was I can say without a doubt the best time of my life.

First, Bartleby didn't get into college? Give me a break. Some state schools have acceptance rates near 100%. Has he ever heard of community college? He tries to blame this on him "not having enough extracurriculars." Extracurriculars are mainly for more selective schools and scholarships, don't give me that crap. Any kid who wants to go to college can get into at least one, it may not be the best. But the phrase "I didn't get into college" is completely unrealistic.

Bartleby says "at South Harmon you kind of get to design your own room." Yeah, and every other college in world also does this. What's with the constant portrayal of traditional colleges as being uptight, restrictive, and trying to stifle individuality? (This was exemplified by Bartleby's lame speech at the end)

And fraternities. I was in a fraternity, it was the best time of my life. As a pledge I was hazed, made to drink hard liquor, put through grueling psychological tests, etc. Nothing humiliating, it was fun. I would do it again if I could. (and this is only done your first semester, after that you're an equal with all the brothers). And this wasn't all done for the kicks of the elder brothers. It wasn't done so they could laugh and make fun of you. You're made to learn about your brothers, connect with your brothers, create social bonds. Every brother went through the same experiences you did. Yeah, you throw parties, do dumb stuff, hit on girls, that's part of being a kid who's living by themselves for the first time. And a fraternity provides the perfect venue for this.

Jonah Hill's fraternity beat him up and stole his laptop? They asked him severe his ties to his other friends? That's completely uncharacteristic.

Yeah, frat guys have the stereotype of being douches. They also have the stereotype of being the leaders of our country. Less than 2% of the male population belong to a fraternity, yet 76% of all Congressmen belong to a fraternity. 40 of 47 U.S. Supreme Court Justices in the last century belonged to a fraternity. And I could quote more statistics.

So, yeah it was kind of a rant on my part. But that's what I think.


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Well stated jwb

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I don't think it's meant to be taken seriously :). I wouldn't be too keen on going to such a school myself.

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Great that your PERSONAL fraternity experience can be remembered as positive, but that's not everyone's. There have been numerous reports of hazing gone too far, and personal anecdotes from a single person don't make that go away.

And the "traditional system" ends up approving of the institute, and the line "don't be so quick to judge" is used against BOTH sides.

When you're 17 a cow can seem dangerous and forbidden...am I alone here?

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"There have been numerous reports of hazing gone too far, and personal anecdotes from a single person don't make that go away."

Way to completely miss the point. Those reports are what? A handful of incidents out of millions of members in the US. So, it's exactly as I said: not representative of fraternities at all.

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I like the stat about our leaders being frat boys. Just goes to show you that you only get anywhere if you know the right people. Have fun in your little club, I prefer gaining friends for life through... you know... actual friendship, not hazing, drinking, and orgies.

If you think the current state of the country is ok, then go ahead and brag about that 76% frat boy Senate crap, lol.

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[deleted]

"I like the stat about our leaders being frat boys. Just goes to show you that you only get anywhere if you know the right people."

Or it goes to show you that fraternities only attract the right kind of people. Smart, socially outgoing, confident, etc.

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Yeah, the right people for THEM. Also, I wouldn't call every guy in a fraternity as being smart. I've met plenty of guys in fraternities that are not too bright and are clearly only in the fraternity because of their dad or because they were on the football or basketball team.

Maybe that guy that isn't socially outgoing and doesn't already have self confidence could benefit from being in that organization.

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"Gruelling Psychological tests"?
Really? Why would you want to degrade yourself and make a full out of yourself to be accepted by a group of people i can only assume are douchebags. Maybe a jump, but to "haze" someone to be there "brother" tradition or not strikes me as a pretty *beep* thing to do.

Also i know dozens of kids who didn't get into college or even state colleges due to grades, it does happen.

Granted this has little to do with what this thread was all about but still!

Anyone?
No...

I'll get my coat.

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"make a full out of yourself"

Did you intentionally not listen? Pledging was FUN, it was exciting, it brought us together. Just because it was difficult and grueling didn't make it not worthwhile. And like I also said, it was done for a reason. It wasn't done for the kicks of others. I've been both a pledge and a pledge master, I know why we do it.

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only idiots join a fraturnity, higher edcutation is supposed to be higher education. its not supposed to be drinking and making a complete and utter fool of yourself

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...out of yourself to be accepted by a group of people i can only assume are douchebags....


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/family-nyc-college-hazing-victim-p lans-sue-n33966:

...Court papers say fraternity members repeatedly tackled pledges who had been blindfolded and weighed down with sand-filled backpacks in the freezing dark.

Deng was knocked unconscious, but instead of immediately dialing 911, his schoolmates Googled his symptoms, waiting an hour before they drove him to the local hospital, court papers alleged...







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I agree man, hazing doesn't bring you closer together. It's just about degrading people. Most of the time the stereotype implies that they do it for entertainment cause most people won't even be accepted into the fraternity. Grueling Psychological tests? That sounds like bullying to me. I don't totally agree with the films interpretation that no education is alright, but it was a comedy for one, and the feel good cheesiness of it made me feel good. Needing to go through *beep* to be accepted by someone you refer to as brothers is *beep* stupid. Brothers aren't supposed to need to prove themselves to be accepted. Your comment about the leaders of this country being from frats just goes to show you are *beep* blind. The leaders of this country are nothing but crooks and scum. I think the point of the movie was just mainly feel good entertainment though.

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With an open mind you'll enjoy a feel-good experience with movies like this; otherwise you'll end up with negativity and criticism. Personally I don't really agree with the movie's message, yet it still is one of my favorites'. Many scenes of the movie are hilarious, worthy of rewatching. As long as the producers have put some efforts in, I'd just enjoy movies for what they are.

Also *beep* is every slacker teenager's dream, so you can take the movie as a nice little fantasy. Just like those movies where the losers get the hot girls-- don't take them too serious.

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Yeah, frat guys have the stereotype of being douches. They also have the stereotype of being the leaders of our country.

Yes, that's right. Frat guys are douches/politicians.

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[deleted]

We should start out by acknowledging that this is a fictional movie and a comedy at that, not a documentary. FYI; when you were pointing out unrealistic parts of the movie I think you forgot to mention that college Deans are not in charge of land acquisition for schools, nor do those Deans draft students to head up those land grabs, also people can't blow stuff up with their mind. That being said, sometimes works of fiction use hyperbole in order to make a point or suggest an underlying truth. Granted there is a great deal of hyperbole in this movie. Both with respect to the premise on which it is founded as well as plot points and some of the action which takes place. However, there is a truth to this movie in the discussion that sometimes college rules and regulations can stymie the opportunity for learning on the part of students. The problems that the Monica character faced with respect to her photography classes (which was the rationale behind the curriculum at *beep* are very real in actual colleges. For example a local college (in Ohio, where this movie is set) will not allow non-theater majors to take an acting class. This movie does not say that colleges are "trying to stifle individuality" but it does suggest that they may inadvertently do so by getting lost in the job training aspect of a college education. Had you listened to all of "Bartleby's lame speech at the end" then maybe you would have heard him point out there is room for both theories in higher education.
As for your concerns with the portrayal of Fraternities in the movie I feel that the activities shown were not all that unrealistic. Save for the fact that the movie suggested that a Fraternity would gang up on one of its pledges because the college Dean wanted to close a business deal. I also have to point out, as an actual fraternity member, that you don't really go a long way toward dispelling the fraternity douchebag stereotype with your post. Also if you would have read the entire page from which you copied your fraternity statistics (which I imagine is the full extent of your fraternity experience) then you would have read that fraternities are good for students for many of the same reasons that the made up college in this movie purports to be good for students. Primarily that it provides something other than the traditional, in class, college experience that you also try to defend in your post.

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For me, the movie wasn't attacking the traditional experience of college, but about society's obsession with it. As the dad in the movie said, "Society says you go to college." Why? Yeah, college is a great investment if you know what you want to do and if you need it. Bartelby didn't know what he wanted to do for the rest of his life; neither did I when I graduated high school. But his parents wanted to spend 80,000 for him to find out. I got student loans and still had to work 2 jobs just to pay for school, and my degree is not worth anything. I went to college because it was assumed by everyone that I would. Now I'm at a job where very few have degrees, and I've got student loans coming to collect. The high school experience can be fun, and it's relatively free!

Bartelby's parents (and a lot of real parents and teachers) just saw the stats that college graduates ON AVERAGE make more than non college graduates. They took that to mean that all college graduates make more. Tell that to an English or History major.

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Very well said.

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What the hell kind of delirium do you have to be in to spend several years working towards an english or history degree thinking you're going to be making a ton of money when you graduate?

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For me, the movie wasn't attacking the traditional experience of college, but about society's obsession with it. As the dad in the movie said, "Society says you go to college." Why? Yeah, college is a great investment if you know what you want to do and if you need it.


Well said, and I would add thAt's if you find work afterwards not always easy nowadays

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