MovieChat Forums > Rome (2005) Discussion > Does it stick fairly close to history?

Does it stick fairly close to history?


I am interested in watching this, but I don't want to if it deliberately plays fast and lose with history. I don't mind a bit of poetic license, but it really irritates me when history is completely rewritten, for example, a book I recently read had the child Octavian as a street urchin - almost like a character in Dickens.

Additionally, does it avoid the Cecil B DeMille route of demonstrating how the Republic is declining by showing lots and lots of debauchery?

Thanks.

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It does sort of re-write a few things, but mostly for time compression and simplicity. Still a damn good story and very well done; give it a try.

Whores will have their trinkets.

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Thanks - a bit of re-writing if fine, it's the re-imaginings that annoy me.

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I would have liked to see how Rome would have played out over four or five seasons, but overall, I enjoyed it.

For those who are sticklers for historical accuracy, you won't like the second season so much. Clearly, the people behind Rome had to compress a lot into a single season, so they took more liberties with the historicity than they did w/the first season.

It's one of the few TV miniseries in my DVD collection. Money well spent!

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There in no better story referring to Republican times to watch on TV. However, some abreviations were done. The plotreferring to Caesar's assasination was far more complicated. The love affairs, treachery, plots, personal matters were connected strictly to historical matters. This is all included in a very short Caesar-Servilia Story.
The biggest abreviations concern Mark Antony. His story is absolutely fascinating as well as the powerful womem who were always close to him. The wide public know only Cleopatra, so why the other wives are not included in the show. Even the story concerning the feud between Antony and Cicero is fascinating. However, that all refers to the times before Caeasar was famous and powerful and is a material for another big big story. The public criticiezes the love affair between Antony And Atia as not accurate, beceause it is not mentioned in the sources. I 've got a question. Today, when we are all taped, invigilated and supervised, do we know everything about, let's say, the president's mom?
The historical characters are presented very accurate and , to be true, everybody is very likable. In fact Cicero wasn't saint, as well as Augustus or Caesar. Antony in reality according to the sources seems to be more serious and not just drunk brute. The scene with the will is not accurate, Octavius was not present in Rome at the time of assasination and it was Antony's role to keep calm and peace in the city. He also masterminded the Filippi battle, so the words "I have no idea" in the scene before the battle it is a kind of "an insult";)
I love the depiction of Agrippa and Octavia, despite there is no evidence that they had any relationship. A trivia is , that Octavia was married for a long time and childless. She born the first child around 44-43 bc when Agrippa was already her brother's friend;)

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Sounds good. I esp like the thought of Antony portrayed in a more believable way rather than huffing and puffing like, for example, Richard Burton. I particularly like the thought a stronger Octavia. History shows her as a strong compassionate woman, but the few times she is represented on screen she does little more than simper. I notice that Fulvia isn't on that cast – was the character omitted? It would be interesting, Also, to see Cicero. I recently read the first two of Robert Harris's books about him and found the details of his life quite interesting (the third one seems to depressing to read, although I probably will sometime).

Thanks very much for that. I'll definitely give it a go.

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Octavia must have been very strong and may be she really loved Antony? She didn't remarry after his death and took care of his children, by Fulvia and Cleopatra. As Octavian's sister she must have been a very valuable piece of "marriage meat" for her brother. Despite his autocratic nature she kept independence. Probably, one reason was, that she bore 5 children. The women who bore 4- if I'm correct - due to imperial laws got a higher status - didn't need to have any "patron" who would take care of them.
Fulvia obviously wasn't in the series. Her story would need another series. Imagine a woman who declares a war against Octavius Caesar! For me she was the most fascinating of all Roman women and with her courage, impudence and image of her created by historians she must have been more interesting than Cleopatra. Atia's character is probably based a little bit on her, but J. Stamp said, her role model was Clodia, acually Fulvia's sister-in-law.
Cicero is as much "deified" as much Antony is "brutalized". I haven't read the books by Harris, but considering the sources Cicero was a bit of a cold bastard, vindictive egocentric and pompous instigator. Despite all that in his letters he appears as a very fragile manic-depressive. He was obsessed with the state matters, he was a very good questor and procolnsul and acted in just cases. On the other hand, he was a criminal defender, and supposedly having relationship with his own daughter, beloved Tulliola, accused of by Sallust (his wife Terentia second husband).
Strangely, even historians do not like to refer to that speculations, but they are very willing to mention all Antony's little sins. The same, Octavian's peadophilia acknowledged by many historians, as we should call the relations with little girls today. Comparing to all the above, Antony was only a big spender, always short of money, alcoholic with a great ego and the will of life.
And may be too naive and to sincere, as he was outmaneuvered by his friends, both Caesars incuded and Cleopatra.
As far as the plots omitted , there is all "Cleopatra story", after Filippi, and later, after Antony left Octavia. Worth to mention, someone killed Arsinoe, Cleopatra little sister, in the Artemis temple in Ephesus. Supposedly, it was Antony who ordered this. That would be a total nonens for him, as in this time he tried to regain the power in Asia province, and this event caused a serious riots in the city. And so on, and so on... So many things to say.

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Cicero is as much "deified" as much Antony is "brutalized". I haven't read the books by Harris, but considering the sources Cicero was a bit of a cold bastard, vindictive egocentric and pompous instigator. Despite all that in his letters he appears as a very fragile manic-depressive. He was obsessed with the state matters, he was a very good questor and procolnsul and acted in just cases. On the other hand, he was a criminal defender, and supposedly having relationship with his own daughter, beloved Tulliola, accused of by Sallust (his wife Terentia second husband).


I think Cicero is "deified" partly because of his flaws. He's one of the few real people who has come down to us. We all know people like Cicero. Brilliant, talented, and capable. But also petty, vain, egocentric. Figures like Caesar, Augustus, Antony, Cleopatra and even Cato almost seem like they come out of epic poetry. They are larger than life. Cicero is so real. He seems like an utterly bourgeois successful lawyer. And people love him for it. They love him for (eventually) trying to stand up for his ideals when we know he would love to just spend time in his villa and speak in the Senate for the rest of his life. They love him for so ineptly trying to play a game he was never suited for (he was a lawyer not a power broker like Caesar or Octavian).

I don't believe the gossip by Sallust, who had his biases and not an entirely reputable fellow. And I don't think he was manic-depressive. I think his letters are reflective of the genuine high highs and low lows a man could go through (even in the same day) during the end of the Republic.



The one thing I can't beat... Competition.

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The sources say that Atiia was a highly moral and virtuous woman of good standing, and not the wicked bitch they turned her into in the series. And I believe she actually died well before most of the events depicted on HBO. What is also annoying is that there is no mention that Octavian was already married to one Scribonia, before he met Livia.

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The episode with Livia is called "Necessary fiction" if I recall, so everything should be clear. Octavian was married even twice before Livia, his first wife was Clodia Pulchra, Anthony's step-daughter. Consequently, Antony had three wives before Octavia. All these persons, if included, would need a story as long and complicated as, let's say, GOT. I would love it, but probably the producers had some reasons to make it shorter.

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It's fairly accurate in the broad strokes although they change some things around and simplify things a bunch.

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I have 2 words for you...

JOHN MILIUS

One of the finest storytellers to ever live, especially Cinematically. Yes, with any drama on TV, there are Liberties taken but it by no means hurts the show. It's actually quite down to earth for its subject matter. Definitely worth the watch if that time period is one of interest for you...

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The show only got two seasons so they had to speed things a long in the second season. So, the only real problem with omissions, for me, comes then when they are trying to fit all the big stuff in.

Season 1 they were more able to take their time and let things flow naturally.



The one thing I can't beat... Competition.

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S1 does flow more naturally, but I have to laugh at the way time is portrayed in the Vorenus household! Months and years go by, but the daughters don’t age. Little Lucius should have been walking and talking, (and weaned) long before Mark Antony’s troops depart for Greece.

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Tezzab,

Seeing as how you posted 3 months ago, did you end up watching the show? If so, how much did you love it ;)

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[deleted]

Et tu Brute? was omitted 

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Who you calliong a brute? 😠

Just kidding. Those last words are apocryphal though.

After all is said and done, a lot more will have been said than done.

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Off course they are. I was just ironically admiring that they didn't go there... his expression was enough.

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damn ironing 😢

After all is said and done, a lot more will have been said than done.

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Damn, you got me there.... again.

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