MovieChat Forums > She Hate Me (2004) Discussion > Racism in the movie...

Racism in the movie...

posted 18 years ago by f.m.c.duijn
62 replies | jump to latest

First of all, for the purpose of context, I'm a white European (Dutch) male, although I've lived in the U.S. for quite some time.

By reading through the forum (I've given up after the first 70) I've noticed that people get worked up about a lot of clichés or misinformation in the movie, such as the lesbian stuff, the health issues, etc.

However, I've not yet heard someone about the race issues involved in this film.

First of all, the balance is all skewed. I could understand that the main black character would choose all-black friends or something, but also the SEC agent / detective is black (and an unprofessional one at that, preferring "perp walk" lines and "shiiiiit" over things like Miranda rights), the 5 million dollar bail judge, the kind judge at the end, most of the lesbians are black, the ejactorium lady, and it goes on. White people are almost a minority themselves in this movie.

Also, the really bad guys in this movie are all white people.
- the CEO Powell
- the wussy and thoroughly abusive executive Margo (whose -- although the Germans are not our best friends during the current World Cup -- remarks about *beep* and nazis when referencing the German scientist, rank on the same scale as an American southerner calling a black man *beep* and are thoroughly offensive)
- all of the paper-shredders at the corporation
- arguably the German scientist himself (although he does some good things, he's also too big a coward to blow the whistle, and he kills at least one person in his suicide)
- the members of the committee in Washington who try to pin him for the crimes committed in his former company
- the robbers at Watergate

I didn't post this to mention I was pissed up about this (although I thoroughly am, movies like this and Drumline are redicilous and encourage racism in itself), what surprises me and what I'm curious about, is why nobody else mentions and/or notices this!

Granted, there are more movies like this, it's almost a genre in itself... but there are also lots of movies with terrible stereotypes about sexuality, yet that still manages to stir people up.

I get a kind of "let us black people stick it to the evil white man" vibe from this movie. Myself, I am (besides not being very PC) very anti-racism, yet this is not the way to do it. I wish the time would soon come, where race would not matter quite so much with characters from movies or the actors who portray them. Affermative action, for example, is racism too.

Why does noone else seem to care about this?

Maybe I misread the movie, maybe there's some context from US society that I missed, but I'm very curious, because I just don't get it.

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] rachid_usmc 18 years ago

yeah seriously....who cares!? You're knitpicking and looking for racial themes in the film when in fact there really isnt really any.
The CEO guy, played by Woody Harrelson, could very well be black or white, asian or whatever character. Woody just happens to have that "evil coporate" appeal about him.

The nazis reference....well you should know damm well that just about in any flics that can take jab at referencing Germans as nazis, most likely will. Especially in movies in the same tone as this. And the German scientist...would it make you feel better if he was from Iraq, or Thailand?

Paper shredders in the corporation....and your point is...??? How you can you have a movie with an evil corporate entity without some serious paper shredding? And how is that racist.

Comittee at washington...most are white there anyways...And if this were to occur in real life (yeah right) most would be white anyways...again whats your point?

Robbers at watergate...if i remember history well...they're all white.

Also, incase you forgot, Spike Lee is black and he direct black themed movies. What did you expect? While some of his movies may seem somewhat racist to some people, many others find ironically truthful....and somewhat of a bit delving into the darker areas of the of humanity, that we refused to either see or admit to actually happening.

[–] add1dda 18 years ago

You and abzeeze are kidding, right? Spike Lee is one of the world's most racist directors -- as bad as D.W. Griffith, but with none of Griffith's talent -- and when someone on this board finally is honest enough to point it out, you try and tell him that he's imagining things? Shame on you!

"The CEO guy, played by Woody Harrelson, could very well be black or white, asian or whatever character." Not in a Spike Lee Joint, he couldn't!

But then, you know you're lying, anyway. You go from saying, "You're knitpicking and looking for racial themes in the film when in fact there really isnt really any," to "Also, incase you forgot, Spike Lee is black and he direct black themed movies. What did you expect? While some of his movies may seem somewhat racist to some people, many others find ironically truthful....and somewhat of a bit delving into the darker areas of the of humanity, that we refused to either see or admit to actually happening."

But I thought there were no racial themes in the movie. "Ironically truthful," Spike Lee?

Let us indeed delve into the darker areas of humanity, that some people refuse to either see or admit to actually happening, such as a man who is racist and anti-Semitic to the bone, who never misses an opportunity to insult whites and particularly Jews, yet in whose professional life is nothing but a parasite living off of whites, and in particular, Jews.

Let us delve, delve, delve the night away!

Nicholas Stix

[–] neilnspredem 18 years ago

as bad as D.W. Griffith

wow

[–] tolchock 18 years ago

One word on your comment about racism: locus of power in society.

I can't believe you compared Lee to Griffith, and being apologetic about the guy who made a film that said it was okay to brutally kill black people in order to protect our women, during the time when it was okay to torture and kill black men. Hilarious! White racism has done far worse damage to human history than black, red, and brown racism combined.

«You're a killer.»
«Partly. I'm a cop.»

[–] ericfmatos 16 years ago

im not white but... what?! so since the white of the past (and not all of them) were racist and had slaves from africa, that africans sold in the first place, that we blacks have to be racist now to make up? (im half black by the way).

btw i never comment back or read what ppl say back to me X)

[–] ShutTheFunkUpFogell 16 years ago

I love how you go all the way back to the slave trade as if that's some justifiable reason to hate someone for the color of their skin. lol.

That is the dumbest comeback.

Don't buy drugs. Become a pop star, and they give you them for free.

[–] Mehki_Girl 15 years ago

Oh come on. You're the liar, the CEO of any particular corporation would be white statistically speaking, but by the original poster's reckoning if he was made to be black, then Spike wouldn't be dealing with reality because there aren't any black CEOs just like there are no black cops, judges, and lawyers which disturbed him so badly in the first place. I hope he is posting about movies with depictions of skanky, sassy talking, booty shaking black female characters, jive-talking, street-smart little black kids, and pimping, drug selling, drug taking, lazy no good black male characters. And while he's at it don't forget to protest when the black guys gets killed before the end of the movie. The black character always gets his a$$$ killed by the monster before the movie ends, usually trying to save the white character.

[–] cromartie890 11 years ago

You apparently know nothing of Spike Lee and don't understand racism. Lee is not racist usually only bigots think that. He does not direct black themes movies as you say. You assume because he is black he make black themed movies. If he is so racist why do some of the best white actors choose to be in his films? Don't say it is no the pay because Lee is notoriously cheap with salaries for actors. You my friend sound like a RACIST to me! Lee has some racial themes in his movies, but many whites CONFUSE that as RACISM. The think Lee is attacking then so the attack back having never seen any of his work. To quote you "who never misses an opportunity to insult whites and particularly Jews, yet in whose professional life is nothing but a parasite living off of whites, and in particular, Jews." This shows your lack of knowledge of Lee and his films. It also showed how you probably are a racist. He writes, directs, and produces his own movies but yet you label him a parasite living off of white. Sounds like a ignorant racist to me!

[–] peter-ruggles 12 years ago

Well yes if you classify Cubans as 'White.'

[–] Typical_Tarantino_Fan 18 years ago

Get a life you loser

[–] JeaSpades 18 years ago

This is seriously making something out of nothing. A Spike Lee Joint kinda denotes a black cast, and let us not forget the movies with a token black guy or two (why do they seem to die first in most horror films yet the stumbling white person lives to see another day).

Curious though, why reference Drumline... black college... battling other perdominately black colleges... at the BET Southern Classic... what does BET stand for? Why wouldn't the cast be mostly black?

[–] mariob74-1 18 years ago

Seriously while you are correct that there is a mostly black cast, I'm with the other people what's your point, let's not even begin to count all the movies without a single black person in the cast AT ALL, Not just corporate themed movies but any movie, I just watched Must Love Dogs today, and I can't recall seeing a single black person the entire movie. And Guess what, I didn't care. because it's so common we don't even think twice about.

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] balkan_bloke7 18 years ago

Its only ever racist when a Black person is being victimized. When its the other way around, then its just your "imagination"....................

[–] mrdiarykeeper4 18 years ago

I am so tired of white people complaining about racism... you all just need to go back to your rich white daddies and live in the little box you call "life".

[–] dl4060 18 years ago

"I am so tired of white people complaining about racism... you all just need to go back to your rich white daddies and live in the little box you call "life".

Have a little bit of class. If you think all white people are rich you are extremely ignorant. Poverty is very common among whites, not as common statistically as among blacks, but still common. There are more poor whites than poor blacks, though poverty is more common per capita among blacks. The CEO's you see at the head of companies do tend to be white, but they represent a tiny fraction of the population. Racism is a problem wherever it comes from. I do not necessarily see it in this film, but some may.

I think one of the issues is that we are not used to seeing films without whites of redeeming value. This happens more often the other way around, so we are more used to that. I think Spike may go out of his way to some extent to show this, whites without redeeming value, because so many films show blacks who have no redeeming value. I think in either case it is unfortunate, but with Spike's movies it is easier for whites to see, since it comes as a shock. It does not let him off the hook, and I am sure he harbors deep prejudices against whites, jews in particular, but it has been done the other way for years.

[–] d-stewart 18 years ago

Normally I don't get into these Racist threads because they're pointless but today I feel like amusing you so I'll respond.

First of all to be racist you have to have power, meaning you have to be in a position to influence perception, policy, employment, empowerment, housing, finance etc... Right now, African-Americans, Latino-American, Asian-Americans, Native Americans lack this power, therefore an AA by definition be racist. Now although they can't be racist it doesn't me they can't be prejudice.

Second of all, people complain about Spike but who finances his movies? WHITES. If the movies were so called "racist" why Disney, Time Warner, Sony, Fox etc... Keep producing his movies?

Now let’s address Spike. Is he an angry black man? Yes. Is he prejudice? That’s open to debate, although I think he’s mellowed the past few years. But you have to give him credit for attacking issues and stories about certain injustices that goes on in this country that wouldn't otherwise been told. Aside from the slavery topic, do really you really hear any stories about black injustices told from "White Hollywood". No. Why? Because America doesn't want to acknowledge or address these topics. Not that I can blame them, I don't think I'd want to go to the movies and then feel bad about what my forefathers did, my uncle’s oft comment at dinner or the joke my co-worker said at the water cooler the other day.

Now lets address the your last comment on the cast, your argument is down right insulting. So if I understand your post correctly, you're saying it would be unrealistic for the judge and the SEC cop to be black? But then you get upset with the whole office is predominantly white, or when every person at the congressional hearing was white? Well duh corp. America and congress is indeed white. You're also not consistent because you were saying that the balance was skued, but watching the movie the BLACK SEC cop and Judge were not positive characters. In fact you could view them as being antagonists to the main character. You also seemed to have conveniently forgotten that the main character said that this wasn't happening to him because he was black.

And the lesbians you speak off, I believe Spike showed many different races, they were Black, Asian, Italian, Indian, Latina, and also white women represented. Have you thought that there wasn't a lot of white women represented because realistically how many white women would sign up for have a black child? If you remember the Italian character her fam wasn't thrilled the father was a black man.

Honestly I think you're upset that the movie wasn't totally "whitewashed" like every Hollywood picture. I bet you don't have an issue with the cast when you're watching the O.C., Friends, Seinfeld, Boston Legal, etc. (Show I indecently enjoy)

Ok I’m done, I doubt you'll reply to this but I felt I needed to get this off my chest because I'm tired of hearing this garbage, time and time again when it comes to Spike.

[–] orlandodiazjr 18 years ago

D thank you for a well written and intelligent answer. All too often people hide in the the fantasy of their lives. Reality is filtered through one's clouded perception and when the truth is shone, too often it blinds the foolish. Grow up people! Prejudice does not equal racism. D is correct racism need power to be real. Prejudice and bias is someting else and can be commited by anyone. It happens al the time even when all parties are of the same ethnic or class.

[–] kalynar 18 years ago

rac‧ism  /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rey-siz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

prej‧u‧dice  /ˈprɛdʒədɪs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[prej-uh-dis] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -diced, -dic‧ing.
–noun
1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
2. any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.
3. unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.
4. such attitudes considered collectively: The war against prejudice is never-ending.

Racism is Prejudice based off of a person's 'race'.
It has nothing to do with power. A black hating redneck in a trailpark is just as much a racist as a white hating japanese CEO.

On Topic: I do find it disconcerting when these all black casts show up in movies, with nary another to be seen, unless the script of the movie specifcally shows why. I tend to feel the same with all white casts too. In a city like where this movie is based, the cast, if not his friends and friends of friends, would be much more eclectic. Sure, there are areas where this would be normal, but for the most part large american cities are incredibly diverse, and should be represtened as such.

[–] dr.gonzo-4 18 years ago

I'm sorry but I disagree, as a filmmaker you should have the freedom to paint your canvas however you damn well please. If this is "your" perception of reality then why should you abide by certain quotas for the diversification of your cast of characters? What should we institute affirmative action when writing movie scripts? BS, total BS. If I want to make a movie with an all Eskimo cast and set it in NYC, who the F is to say I should not?

[–] missinocent96 17 years ago

Living in a diverse city does not mean you are going to mix and mingle with everyone. We all pretend like people don't tend to segregate themselves, but they do. That's not to say that we don't socialize outside our race, but we don't live life like a United Colors of Benetton ad.

[–] Mehki_Girl 15 years ago

Just because the cities are diverse doesn't mean they hang with each other after work. I lived and worked in New York and many other cities, including the south. New York by far the most racist city. People cling to their own neighborhoods and territories. After being friendly with whites in the workplace (and school), I would occasionally bump into them on the street when they were with friends or family members and I've seen them pretend not to notice me. Once me and an Irish girl I was friendly with at work were having a drink when suddenly she said she realized what her neighborhood would think about seeing us hanging out and she had to leave. And she just left me sitting there! We still remained friendly at work (because frankly I don't give a happy sh*t if whites like me or not) but how sad for her.

Once I moved to San Francisco, I spent 10 blissful years not hearing racists comments and I don't mean they had all been directed at blacks. All day long it was *beep* Pollack, *beep* Guinea, Greaseball, blah blah blah. I remember when I lived out there, this Jewish girl (also from New York) mentioned to me how great it was not to be constantly approached about whether she was Jewish or not (and being told, "funny you don't look Jewish"). Oh and stupid me when I was in middle school, me and a friend went over to a white "friend's" house after school to do homework. You should have seen the look of absolute confusion and terror on the face of her little brother when he answered the door. Then the door closes, whispered conferences behind the door, then it reopens, and uh-oh, she's not there. I learned from that and many other experiences, to not particularly trust whites outside of the particular environment that we might be friendly with each other.

My thing is, is as long as we are polite to each other and treat each other with respect and you can refrain from sharing with me some race based negative crap you saw on TV the night before or how your grandma is racist or how you really don't like blacks, we will get along fine. But on a personal level, I couldn't care less what you think.

Like most men, black men have egos and to have it bruised by a thousand slings and arrows during a lifetime, I guess would make you pretty damned angry. You have to be a person that can really like sh*t slide down your back.

[–] Rosey_gal 11 years ago

A well thought-out reply indeed

[–] DeclanCochran 10 years ago

Wow, this is almost ten years old now... Still, right on. In the eight years since, there's been so little to address the fact that most films now are purely white. The Avengers are white, Spiderman is white (X-Men is quite diverse, which fits given the subtext). Twilight is white (Twiwhite?). The post by the OP is silly because it overlooks the fact that most popular culture produced by the industry is white (like the shows you mention).

Also... Spike Lee is black. He makes films about black people, and their culture. That's just what he does, and, dare I say it, he makes them very well indeed. I'm white, and I watched some of Mo Better Blues the other day, and it was enchanting. You can accept and look at other cultures without yourself being a part of them; otherwise the notion of equality fails to have any practical meaning.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What would you do if I died today?

I'd die tomorrow.

[–] get_to_the_choppa 18 years ago

Spike Lee just tries to bring more equality to the movie industry, an industry dominated by white actors/directors/producers,etc. I just hope a middle eastern director has the same success as him, coz I'm sicked by the fact that the last middle eastern actor with a leading role in a major US film was Omar Sharif in Dr Zhivago... over 40 years ago!

Then again, that may have something to do with the level of jewish influence in Hollywood. I wouldn't be surprised... afterall, religion is pretty much to blame for a majority of the world's problems!

[–] shibbyua2005 18 years ago

Are you seriously writing a post discriminating against the Jews? Is that not a tad hypocritical? And uh..since when were Jews considered white? I am not saying this to be PC, because there really is no political correctness (oxymoron) but am saying this because I think that it is important for people if they PREACH to accept one type of people.. they accept all types of people...so if you are campaigning for marraige rights for gays.. then you better still love those who campaign against you.. because seriously.. hypocrisy is prevalent all over.

And just to set the record straight... Religion is not the root cause of the world's problems.. it's actually people.. i never saw religion kill someone.. but i have seen people being killed by other people who were blind to their beliefs

You can not pick and choose with religion.. well unless you are an agnostic.. then you can do whatever.. take Islam for example.. the Islam religion is a peaceful religion but unfortunately SOME of the people who practice have a skewed view of what should be in the world and they handle it in their way.. Not in Allah's way.. not in Yahweh's way.. not in God's way. They handle it in THEIR way.

If you were to read Utopia by Thomas More or apply all of the principles of Christianity (love thy neightbor as thyself,etc) the world would be a much better place.. but unfortunately (again) people being inherently selfish (and if you have ever had a baby you would know this) people will do anything to get their way.