MovieChat Forums > Cry Wolf (2005) Discussion > To execute a plan with so many variables...

To execute a plan with so many variables on 1 set day is impossible...

posted 17 years ago by woodsmith
24 replies | jump to latest

To people who say this film is "the best thriller/horror/whatever ever!!!!" and that Dodger's plan is "very possible/easy" to pull off.

To start with Dodger wanted to get revenge on the girl who was cheating with Mr Mat, so she killed her. - yes all possible. Planting the gun etc. perfectly easy to achieve.
Now that's where everything was possible.
But now to get to the point - With the variables apparent throughout the film in order for Dodger's plan to work there had to be no mistakes, and sadly that wouldn't be possible. Here are some of the plot holes I have noticed...

1) how could Dodger have being able to rely on Owen a) being anywhere near his laptop, and b) had his laptop on when she sent him the messages?
2) None of the kids knew that it was Dodger on the messages so surely they must have been freaked out? How could Dodger rely on one of them not breaking down and backing out?
3) How could Dodger have known that when Owen was attacked in the car he would have run towards the policeman? If he had gone the other way, he would have realised when he saw the knife, and they wouldn't have been punished, therefore not be grounded in the school, therefore not being able to pull off the whole thing.
4) When Tom went after Owen, he swung at him with his knife. The only thing stopping Owen from getting hit was dogging out of the way. What if Owen hadn't moved?
5) Dodger planted the gun in Mr Mats draw, middle draw. So lets get this straight the guy wouldn't have opened his main draw on his desk in the last few days? Whatever.
6) I forget which character, but one of them saw Mr Mat before he went into his office. How could Dodger have relied on Mr Mat getting into his office without somebody telling him about Owen? Also where was Mr Mat before he went to his office, why hadn't he seen anything?
7) So lets get this straight, Mr Mat didn't dump Dodger, yet he put his neck out to keep Owen, the guy who was getting off with Dodger, in the school! What if Dodger had been expelled?
8) How could Dodger have kept the plan to one day, at one time? Halloween. As I've said. ONE uncontrolable mistake and it would have been over.

There are many more reasons. Care to add to them? But the fact remains. It would be impossible to pull it off.

[–] robertearlkeen2003 17 years ago

It is a movie, to quote my old film school teacher, "you have to be willing to suspend disbelief. Movies exist in a universe where the impossible becomes possible, that is what why we love them."

If you over analyze any movie-- even the greats like Casablanca-- you lose the "magic" that makes movies worth watching.

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] gypsyinfurs 16 years ago

It's one thing to have a couple of plot holes here and there and it is quite another to have a film full of inconsistencies. I enjoyed the storyline but found it frustrating to really love the movie due to the large amount of plot holes it created.

SAVOIR C'EST POUVOIR

[–] bite_me_loser_86 13 years ago

I really hate it when people use the 'suspension of disbelief' argument when defending movies that are completely implausible and so farfetched only a child could think they were smart and thought-through. Just because it's 'just a movie' does not mean that some of us don't want it to be at least somewhat believable within its own context. Yes, when we watch supernatural movies like The Never Ending Story or Harry Potter we are inclined to accept that the 'impossible becomes possible' because the movie sets its own premises and follows its own 'laws'.
This movie wasn't supposed to be supernatural in any way. There is nothing to suggest Dodger was psychic or that she possessed any form of mind control that ensured that she would be able to manipulate everyone into following her plan to a tee. With all the factors the OP has mentioned that were out of her control and very well could have gone wrong, it is unbelievably hard to swallow that a human being could successfully plan a plot so intricate. It's just too farfetched. It seemed to me the writers just wanted to give us a final twist before the ending and they wanted something as unpredictable as possible. And of course no one would be able to predict that Dodger had such superhuman capacity to plan something out so precisely, all just so she could have her former lover killed... why? When she could just as well have killed him herself, like she killed that forrest girl in the beginning.

Ridiculous. Sorry, but not all of us are able to check our brains at the door when we sit down to watch a movie.

[–] erkur 8 years ago

That's the thing, you won't be able to trash Casablanca like this.

[–] Mister_Anderson 17 years ago

Far be it for me to defend a movie's plotholes (a teen thriller's at that), but let me play devil's advocate.

(1) She didn't need him to be present when she sent the messages.

(2) No one else got the messages, so why would they be freaked out? They didn't even know Owen was telling the truth about them (although his roommate did). The Asian chick hypothisized that Owen was making the whole thing up.

(3) That wasn't part of Dodger's "grand scheme" although she probably knew about it. It was Lewis/Regina/Mercedes plan. Remember, Tom didn't even know about it until after it was done.

(4) I agree with this nitpick. The knife looked real to me. Why would Tom be using a real knife?

(5) She planted the gun on Thursday night. Owen found it on Saturday night. Not too far fetched, although I agree it was not the smartest idea.
(6) I don't know what you're asking in the first part of the question, but I agree with your last point. We aren't told where Bon Jovi (who is Mr. Mat??) was or why he was even on campus on Saturday night. It could be explained that Dodger had called him to meet her, but this is never explained.

(7) Bon Jovi (until Friday morning) didn't know anyone knew of his affair with Dodger. He stuck his neck out for Owen because he feared that if Owen was expelled, he would have no reason not to tell the Headmaster about Bon Jovi and Dodger's affair. Bon Jovi needed to keep his leverage until at least he was able to end the relationship.

(8) The plan didn't need to unfold exactly how it did. What Dodger absolutely needed to happen was: (a) Owen to believe there was a killer on campus who was stalking them; (b) Owen to be in Bon Jovi's office and find the gun before Bon Jovi arrived; (c) Bon Jovi to arrive shortly after she fakes her death; and (d) Owen to shoot Bon Jovi thinking he was the killer. All the other stuff is window dressing. Dodger had control about when she was "killed." She called Bon Jovi's office to make sure Owen was there. She told Owen she could see him out the window, so that he would turn and look and see her "get killed." The biggest problem is Bon Jovi showing up at the precise time which allowed him to miss seeing the fake murder but catch Owen in his office.

There's another problem, however, and that is that the entire Cry Wolf game that they play makes absolutely no sense. Every player puts money into the pot. Then someone accuses another of being "the wolf." The other players can either vote out the accuser or the accusee, whichever they think is the wolf. Okay, makes sense so far...or does it? Why would any of the other players WANT to vote out the wolf? That would mean they lose their money. Whereas if they vote out an innocent player, the game continues and they have another chance to win. Therefore, no player with any brains would side against the person they think is the wolf until the very end of the game, thus destroying the game's whole point.

MOVIES BY THE MINUTE --> http://moviesbytheminute.blogspot.com

[–] samma_grace 17 years ago

all i know is that it seemed to me that tom was in on the plan.

he had a past w/ dodger... && i don't recall him giving an answer as to why he dropped the clothes ... or why he didn't just say something to the professor.

wasn't it kind of a stretch to mess the school up that much? && then to break the windows && push over the kitchen shelvings && such?

why [[did]] randall miss out on his "big date" w/ jenny?? all for the game??? wtf...

.::.(i)hope some(<3)thing eats (you).::.

[–] salay2 17 years ago

i agree with mister anderson on many of his points. things did not have to unfold exactly the way they did in order for dodger's plan to still be a success. however, i think that the biggest problem in what happened is how owen ended up in mr walker's office. maybe i am missing something but i don't see how and why he ended up there (and remember it is very important that he ended up there because that's where the gun was). and also of course there is the part about getting mr walker to arrive just after owen sees dodger "die" and finds the gun. that must have been difficult for dodger to do.

the whole bit you mentioned about the game, i will try to explain the best i can. the game they played in the chapel is based off of a real life game called mafia. the premise of the game is the same. but instead of a wolf and sheep there are mafia and townspeople. and usually there are multiple mafia instead of a single wolf. mafia is a team game although the movie appeared to portray it as an individual game (whichever person accuses correctly is the "winner"). in the real game, if one villager accuses correctly, and the mafia is entirely eliminated, all of the townspeople win, not just the one who correctly accused. the game is changed so it would better fit the movie itself. this was said in the feature commentary. i believe the money was just added to make the movie more interesting. so the comment about the game not making any sense is correct, except for the fact that they did not play the real version of the game. search google for mafia and different variations, it really is a fun game. i play at my college all the time and we've played over 7 hours straight before.

about the comment who said not to overanalyze the movie.........
i strongly disagree. certain movies beg to be analyzed inside and out and searched for every detail. this is definitely one of those movies. especially since many events of the movie are not actually shown on screen. it is only natural after watching a movie like this to sit back and try to fit together everything that happened and see if it adds up.

[–] time388s 16 years ago

Owen saw that the last car in the parking lot was Mr. Walker's. He needed an adult to convince the authorities to send help. He ran up to Walker's office hoping to find him.

Even with a few things explained the movie does require a number of variable to happen in a certain order and a certain way for Dodger's plan to work. I have noticed the same thing in some Agatha Cristie novels. Putting together the clues to find the killer is the focus of the plot. The fact that so many people not part of the plot would have to behave a certain way exceeds probability. Even so, as you read the novels, watch a movie based on them, or watch Cry_Wolf the suspense of the moment can carry you along to enjoy the movie before noticing the flaws.

[–] c_rys 14 years ago

Even if we accept, though, that Owen ends up in Mr. Walker's (Jon Bon Jovi's) office, even if we accept that Dodger was able to plan the whole thing up to here, she has no way of knowing what will happen once Owen threatens Mr. Walker with the gun:

What if Mr. Walker had simply surrendered, which is the most reasonable thing to do when someone points a gun at you? His prints aren't on the gun, there's no proof Owen got it from his drawer, so if Owen doesn't shoot him, he's not going to go to prison, so Dodger doesn't get her revenge.

What if Mr. Walker, about twice Owen's size, had wrestled the gun off him? If he shoots Owen, I think he'd have a pretty reasonable selfdefense case going, considering all the clues he had that Owen was actually the killer (or at least just pretty unhinged), & had broken into his office, brandishing a gun (again, Mr. Walker doesn't know the gun was in his drawer, his prints aren't on it, so to him - & to everyone else except Owen & Dodger - it would seem to be Owen's gun). So once again, Mr. Walker is alive & free, so no revenge, plus, Owen's dead.

If Mr. Walker wrestles the gun from Owen, & doesn't shoot him, instead calling the cops, then once again, there's no reason for him to be put in prison for anything, while Owen's going to be expelled, possibly put in prison or given some kind of punishment for breaking & entering/illegal possession of a firearm/whatever. So once again, no revenge on Mr. Walker.

Frankly, I'd say, given how shaky & nervous Owen (who does not seem to be experienced with firearms) is, & how calm & intelligent Mr. Walker is, not to mention how much bigger & stronger, that all three of my scenarios are more likely than the one that actually took place.
If Dodger wanted Mr. Walker dead so much, why didn't she just kill him herself? She had no problem killing the townie at the start. Nobody knew about the affair, so nobody would suspect her. Since she was involved in the whole scheme, & Owen figured out her plan, then what's to stop the others from figuring out her plan? They knew all the same details Owen did. Okay, it's hard to prove, but all the same, she's got more chance of being linked to the murder now than she would have done had she simply shot him in the woods. I know, then there'd be no movie, but that's no excuse - on the filmmakers' part - for the plot making no sense.

[–] vanbemmelb 14 years ago

1. Dodger had feelings for Owen. She had no idea he was not going to go to the Halloween Dance and the lakehouse after. When Owen dumped Dodger, then a different game started right then and there.

2. Dodger planted the gun in Walker's office. At this point she could care less if Owen got shot by Walker or if Owen killed Walker. Either way, some *beep* would go down.

[–] c_rys 13 years ago

I'm not sure about that. If she didn't care if she got her revenge on Walker, then her whole plan would become pointless.

[–] erkur 8 years ago

I already said it above, you won't find as many flaws in Cristies novels.

[–] zephiale 13 years ago

Well, it's not impossible to plan something like this, but it IS highly unlikely it would unfold as such. That being said, Dodger planned for everything, and it just happened to work out for her, one step at a time. If it had fallen apart at any moment, yes it would have stopped, but evidence would not point to her, so she basically had nothing to lose. I assume she would come up with a new plan, had this one not come together so well.

So Dodger pretty much got lucky, and went with it after determining that she could not be caught (the only time really would be shooting the woman and planting the gun). Apart from those two moments, she could play everything off as a prank, if caught. This is what makes the plan so brilliant, in my opinion.

Consequences will NEVER be the same!!!

[–] kai_venice 13 years ago

I fully agree with your post title. Having said that, I don't believe that her ultimate plan was for Owen to kill the teacher. Initially, I think she just wanted to completely remove any possibility of suspicion of her being the townie girl's murderer. What better way than to create another killer? As events progressed she changed her strategy and goals. Owen's rejection sent her on a different path. I think her goal with Mr. Walker was to ruin his life, not necessarily end it. His death happened as a bonus.
Also, there is no reason to take anything she said as truth. She spoke what truth was necessary to earn trust, the rest was deception. Whereas hints of truth were definitely given by other players. That the initial crime was one of passion. That the killer could also have been a woman.
One thing she did say that was absolutely true, she was playing chess while everybody else was playing checkers. They were pranking at being murderers, while she WAS one. She was on a higher level playing a completely different game.
Based on the chess analogy, I don't see any plot holes. She controlled her pieces and executed her moves masterfully, and took expert advantage of every other players moves to fulfill her goals.
Owen was also a good chess player, which is why he could figure it all out in the end, but she was still a grandmaster compared to him.
I think this movie was brilliant.

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

[–] vanbemmelb 13 years ago

Well said Kai. People have no idea of the brilliance of this film.

[–] david-bacon 13 years ago

I agree with Kai, the plan was to frame the teacher, his death being a bonus. All she had to do was to lead Owen to the teacher's room and have a showdown there. Once a gun was found, *beep* was going down with the police, the fotos would be found and the teacher would go to jail. I believ that was the plan.

[–] bite_me_loser_86 13 years ago

I guess you're one of the lucky few that are 'brilliant' enough to understand this masterpiece of a movie.

To the rest of us it was just another poor attempt of a teen slasher trying to be clever by a delivering ridiculously far-fetched twist at the end.
The silly hints about chess and checkers do not undo the fact that this film is trying way, way too hard.

[–] megaruda 12 years ago

I wished people were smarter, this movie is not that hard to understand, and all the arguments that have been brought are so easily explained that is even frustrating and makes me angry.
"It's like you are playing checkers and I'm playing chess"

He helped her because he wanted to impress her thats what i got from the awkward silence at the library.
She knew his kind and she knew all her friends for years... she was way too smart for almost every person.
And you are just proving this by trolling random fake arguments pretending to be smart.
He shot him because he thought he was a killer it is way too obvious, his reaction is too real it was the smart thing to do that a lot of people would do in real life. Basically the reason to bash this movie is that is too logic and real. The only real comparison is cruel intentions.

I'll just laugh about the silliest comment i read.
"Why wouldn't she killed him herself?"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[–] bite_me_loser_86 12 years ago

It's not about his reaction at the end, it makes perfect sense that he would shoot him in THAT given situation. It's just very unlikely that EVEYTHING would fall into place so perfectly, I mean the situations leading up to that point were so complex and depended on SO many different factors, many of whom SHE had no control over.

Your explanation 'SHE WAS SUPER DUPER SMART, YOU IDIOTS!!!!' is just retarded. because it's not only about INTELLIGENCE, it's about luck and chance and the likelihood of everything going according to her complicated plan is SO small that this entire thing becomes too faar-fetched to believe. Thus the movie was trying too hard!

[–] megaruda 12 years ago

Well for some things you are supposed to have some common or sense or think a little bit, in first place it wasn't her plan... it was rhandall's and the fat guy. She was lucky and used it to her advantage, telling him where the gun was, probably her plan was only to get him to jail in revenge for cheating her with Becky, but if he got killed it was even better. Of course her plans kept on changing through the whole movie, first she only wanted to incriminate her teacher for Becky's death, she probably knew police would consider it a passion crime. you are right about something
it's not all about intelligence but also luck, she was lucky but also smart enough to change the plan accordingly to what was happening. The entire thing is too real to be a movie.
But seriously i feel sorry for explaining this people should get all this information by themselves with their own "brain"...

[–] bite_me_loser_86 12 years ago

You're an idiot. I already responded to you in a different thread, can't be bothered to type the response again, so go read that other thread.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] philoj 7 years ago

I always think of these "what are the odds" type scnearios in movies in a multiverse style:

Sure, there are a million different ways it could have played out. In one universe, everything went exactly as planned, the teacher got shot, and Dodger walks away free.

That's the story we saw - the one where everything went right. It's like when you see a video of a Rube Goldberg machine - there were a thousand takes where things went wrong, and one take where everything went exactly right. And that's the one we watched.

--
Philo's Law: To learn from your mistakes, you have to realize you're making mistakes.