Why does Agnes want to be thin. - The Crimson Petal and the White (2011) Discussion

[–] Flossieandflo 13 years ago

She says something along the lines of that when she doesn't eat she doesn't bleed - but to be honest I was unsure, from this series, of he exact nature of her illness, it's all rather vague.

Apparently in the book it's made clear she has a brain tumour which would account for her strange behaviour, but I don't think the TV adaptation stated this.

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[–] silverwhistle 13 years ago

She says something along the lines of that when she doesn't eat she doesn't bleed - but to be honest I was unsure, from this series, of he exact nature of her illness, it's all rather vague.

That's sounds like a way to avoid dealing with her adult sexuality and body: keeping her weight below the level needed for menstruation.

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[–] fred-889 13 years ago

Why do girls want to be thin nowadays?

Regardless of her madness, she wanted to be thin because it was considered attractive. Don't you remember her friend who gave her the pills remarking on how thin she herself has become thanks to eating nothing? Remember her calling Lady Bridgelow fat at the opera? And, remember her saying one must be very thin to wear white?

Mainly just fashion, and its cycles and pressures.

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[–] Flossieandflo 13 years ago

Yes, it does seem to be a classic eating disorder in this adaptation - and as Silverwhistle says the psychological reasons behind such disorders can often be a rejection of adult sexuality (I thought the same about the cessation of bleeding, but then she also mentions 'bleeding' in conjunction with Dr Curlew's visits, whatever the heck he does to the poor woman ). With her friend (I can't remember the name) the pursuit of thinness seems to be a classic fashion thing - but with Agnes I think it's an expression of a deeper derangement.

It is curious this adaptation doesn't refer to the brain tumour - it gives matters quite a different spin on them.

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[–] silverwhistle 13 years ago

but then she also mentions 'bleeding' in conjunction with Dr Curlew's visits, whatever the heck he does to the poor woman

I certainly assumed he was molesting her sexually, and that was why she feared him.

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[–] Flossieandflo 13 years ago

Yes, it certainly seemed that way and I think his character was fairly typical of the time - weren't Victorian doctors obsessed with 'hysteria' and the importance of the womb in relation to well being?

Not a good time to be a female and in anything other than robust health.

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[–] silverwhistle 13 years ago

Actually, this sort of medical preoccupation was only really a danger for the rich, because most people could only afford doctors if they needed them, and sometimes not even then.

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[–] mel-o-drama 13 years ago

- weren't Victorian doctors obsessed with 'hysteria' and the importance of the womb in relation to well being?

Very much so, in fact that's where the word 'hysterectomy' came from. Removing the womb was considered a 'cure' (or at least treatment) for many such illnesses. They also would physically 'manipulate' the uterus, since surgery was so very dangerous. In light of this, the doctor might very well have been acting in good faith, not realising the further damage he was inflicting on poor Agnes.
I haven't read the book ....yet, so I am not sure if they go into his motives.
Useless trivia - Apparently the first vibrator was a medical device that doctors would use to 'relieve tension' in overwrought women (it may have, but not necessarily when performed by the doctor!)

happiness isn't happiness without a violin-playing goat

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[–] mildredpierce 11 years ago

It is being hinted that her husband raped her the first time they had sex and it is not uncommon that people who are traumatized to deal with it through regession. In Agnes' case her she deals with her husbands actions by making her sexuality the culprit. Without it he wouldn't have been able to rape her and it is also one of the few things she actually can be in control of in her life and state of mind.

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[–] unknown_soul278 13 years ago

Why do girls want to be thin nowadays?

Seen any magazine covers, billboards, and movies lately? Thin is shoved down our throats by the media and society. Most men want thin women, so if you are overweight you can either spend your life trying to please men, or come to terms with your body and be happily single. Every once in a while a man comes along that likes bigger women but it is rare. It is much better to be single and happy than to be miserable trying to make someone else happy.

Dr. Curlew was, at that time, considered one of the top authorities on 'female problems. William insisted that he see Agnes on a regular basis and it may help her condition at some point, and he was called in for any tiny change (like a period). Agnes didn't seem too fearful to me, she just hated him. It's understandable; seriously, who wants to be subjected to a pelvic several times a week?

Agnes dissociates when anything is being done to her body, and since she was entirely ignorant of normal body changes.

She starves herself partially to stay thin, but mostly to stop her periods. She thought they were some sort of punishment for imagined sins, and she thought her pregnancy and delivery were the work of a demon inside her. To her, Sophie truly doesn't exist and she never made the connection. When she was young, being tiny was desirable, and she never let go of her early social success. Her mind was always that of a child.

The wild, cruel animal is not behind the bars of a cage. He is in front of it.

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[–] fred-889 13 years ago

Rhetorical question...

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[–] jobimfan3000 12 years ago

Actually being thin, especially as thin as Agnes is, was *not* considered attractive in Victorian England. In fact the women were very curvy and might even be considered pudgy by today's standards but wore tightly cinched corsets and bustles to accentuate their breasts and hips. For Agnes (like Anorexics today) it was all about a sense of control. She had no control in the rest of her life and the only place she felt she had it was in connection with her food.

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[–] fantasyescapist 13 years ago

One word: control. Her personal life is in turmoil and food intake is the only think she has control over, pretty much.
She also sees the white dress as aspirational and only thin women can wear white as she says.
And also, white has virginal connotations, so in her mind, its possibly a way for her to undo the molestation at the hands of her doctor and husband and become pure again. That's my take on it.

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[–] claire-aspinall 12 years ago

Personally, I think that because of her mental state she didn't understand menstruation, and therefore it confused and scared her, and she wanted it to stop.

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[–] unknown_soul278 12 years ago

She would probably have been capable of understanding if anyone had ever bothered to explain it to her. Her mother did not, and no one else even considered the idea that she had no clue what was really happening to her and why.

The wild, cruel animal is not behind the bars of a cage. He is in front of it.

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[–] alexanderds 10 years ago

This was how I took it as well. Nobody ever explained to her what menstruation is, so she assumed the bleeding meant she was sick. In the book this is explained better - it's clear she has no idea that this is normal, or what is happening, and is sure it's a sign of a terrible illness.

When she didn't eat, she didn't bleed, so I don't think her wanting to be thin had anything much to do with how she looked rather than stopping the bleeding and therefore, in her mind, the terrible illness.

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[–] ReganRebecca 10 years ago

In the novel it's explicitly stated that she realizes that when she starves herself the bleeding will stop and since no one has ever explained menstruation to her she thinks her menstrual blood is a sign of ill-health and does whatever she can to make it stop.

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