MovieChat Forums > Helter Skelter (2004) Discussion > What movie should i see original or '04?

What movie should i see original or '04?


I haven't seen these movies yet. What one should I see? Or are they both fairly good? Thanks

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If you want to see the murders watch this version, want the trial watch the original. I personally like the original better, actor Steve Railsback is the best actor to bring Charles Manson to the screen. He's also the only actor to look really scary in the beard and long hair.

You could see both. In a way this one is like a prequel to the original.

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I would suggest the original. It's just a far better and more believable movie that the 04 version. Both have their mistakes, but the new version is just so over the top.

they aren't really the same movie though, so see both of them

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Thanks for the advice. I'll put both in the netflix queue.

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They are not the same movie at all. I would not call the '04 version a remake as it is a very different take on the story. Unfortunately, the PC Police sanitized some dialog in the '04 version which I always object to. In the end I think both are equally good. I'd recommend seeing both.

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I would suggest watching the original first. After you have seen the original, watch this version.

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The first version is a police procedural mired in a "70s establishment versus those bad hippies" viewpoint. It's like the story is told from your grandparents point of view. I thought Steve Railsback was over the top and the clock stopping sequence was goofy.

The second version illuminates more of what was going on in the Manson family, at the Spahn ranch, and in the crimes. I found the 2nd one to be more interesting.

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they had the watch-stopping thing in the 2nd movie was well. Personally, I preferred the first one as it felt more realistic and Steve Railsback really captured Charles Manson on screen. He was freaking scary, though Jeremy Davies was rather good as well, but I just didn't believe he was as twisted and as daunting as Railsback's charlie.

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I saw Bugliosi speak at a college in Minnesota in the early 1980s. He really drew a big crowd and was very interesting to listen to. When someone asked him 'What was the strangest thing that happened during the Manson trial' he commented that his watch stopping during the trial was probably the strangest but he also added that the TV movie presented it much more dramatically than it really was. Probably because it was the end of the first night and they wanted to leave the viewing audience with something eerie to bring them back for part 2 the next night. So it really did happen but not like it was portrayed in the 1976 version. I don't remember seeing it in the 2004 version. I just thought Bruno Kirby, who I always liked, was a bit too old to be playing Bugliosi. Sad he would never get much older.

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The clockstopping was shown in the 2004 version, though it wasn't emphasized so much. Still, it was a cheesily done, implying that Manson's intense staring at him caused it.

Clocks stop everyday, every minute, somewhere in the world. Coincidences occur just the same.

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Vincent Bugliosi said the watch-stopping thing actually happened.

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I haven't seen all of the '04 version, but I have read the book and saw the '76 version. Personally, I do not think "remakes" every capture the same emotion as an original, especially in this case. The murders were less than 10 years old and still fresh in most people's minds. A remake 35 years later just won't capture that same feeling, sorry.

Watch both and compare.

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Watch the original. It was made only six years after the murders and still has a lot of the feel of the era. The ending is a bit of a letdown now that years have passed but I can say that it was very effective at the time. I should know because I saw it when it was first broadcast.

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The original trumps the 2004 version in every sense. I watched the original on TV when it first aired during the 70s, and it certainly did give me the creeps all over again. I had already devoured the book. As for the earlier post about the watch scene in the original being goofy, that's just ridiculous, as Bugliosi's watch did indeed stop. Granted, the film heightened the drama for effect, but it worked at the time. The 2004 version seemed plastic, phony and cheap. The actors had horrible wigs that were really distracting. The whole production felt overworked and dull. The original's suggestions of the violence, rather than the 2004 version's emphasis on gore, felt much more chilling. The 2004 also stopped far too soon. Half of the story is the trial, and the newer version skips right through nearly all the trial. Then again, I just rented both versions so I could compare them. The original still wins hands down.

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i like the '04 version more - (characters are) more fleshed out. ;-)

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Steve Railsback's performance is so good in this that when I see the real Manson on TV I think " hes not doing it as good as the other guy ( Railsback)!"

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I remember when I first saw this movie in the video store on the shelf and thinking it looked like a crappy low budget direct to video movie with an actor playing Manson that didn't really look alot like him, I thought I'd first come to imdb to read some reviews and read through the message board to see what people thought and most people didn't seem to think it was very good and that the first Helter Skelter was so much better so I didn't bother seeing this version. Over the last 6 months I've taken a big interest in Charles Manson and I've read Helter Skelter, I've watched various interviews with Manson and I've watched a wide variety of interviews with all the Manson family. I just watched a documentary on Foxtel a couple of days ago with Gypsy talking about Manson and the hold he had over the family. On my day out yesterday I hired some movies and came across the new version of Helter Skelter and thought I'd give it a watch and see if it was any good. I was very impressed with the film, all the scenes play out precisely how they're described in the book and the dialogue is pretty much word for word. Jeremy Davies did an absolutely superb job portraying Manson, he had his voice and mannerisms absolutley down pat and the rest of the actors all did a very good job, Clea Duvall as usual was excellent, the woman who played Susan Atkins was spot on in the way she acted and she looked just like her, I thought she did a better job than the actress in the first Helter Skelter and I would like to have seen more of her in this movie. The actor that played Bugliosi was the only weak link, I've seen many of Bugliosi's interviews and speaches and he looks, sounds and acts almost nothing like him but even still, I liked his performance, especially when he sees Mansons hand shaking as he's holding the glass and leans over and asks him if he's scared, that was terrifically acted. The murder scenes are not gratuitously done at all unlike what most people are saying, you never once see a knife going into someone graphically at all, the film uses a certain effect, I don't know what it's called but it looks like x-ray vision when they show someone being stabbed. The murder of Sharon Tate in the movie is quite disturbing, especially when she begs for her baby to be cut out of her while she lay there dying, that was hard to watch.

I think the movie did the best job possible covering the events that it did. We got to see Linda Kasabian move into the ranch and see how the family lived which was very interesting and Jeremy Davies was just briliant showing how manipulative Manson was and really made Manson believable in how he was able to brainwash this merry band of misfits.

I really have no idea why so many people didn't think much of this version of Helter Skelter, it was totally accurate in accordance with what happened and had so much more detail of the earlier events than the first Helter Skelter did. I've seen the original Helter Skelter numerous times and it is a very well made movie and Steve Railsback is absolutely fantastic as Manson but the movie is soley about the trial and really lags at alot of points in the movie. If people are more interested in just the trial then you'd like the first Helter Skelter more but for people wanting much more of an insight as to what happened and how the family operated and behaved then I highly reccomend this new version of Helter Skelter. Infact just watch both movies as they're both really good, there's no need to compare them and say this one's better than that one, they're both good and both definetley worth watching.

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Didn't Susan say that Sharon begged for the baby to be cut out before she was stabbed? I remember when this movie came out, many people were critical of the scene you mentioned because they said it was innacurate. No matter what, she did beg for the life of her baby to be spared so it's heartbreaking no matter which way it happened.

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This movie features "pre murder" scenes between the victims. In one scene it shows Sharon, Voytek, and Abigail Folger in the kitchen chatting and laughing. Abigail expresses concern about Voytek and herself overstaying their welcome. Sharon laughs her off and tells her not to worry, as they are welcome to stay as long as they want. It also shows Abigail and Frykowski as a very lovestruck couple.

I have read that Sharon was very displeased with having either one of them at her house while Roman was away, was not that friendly with them, and kept her distance as much as possible. She was polite to them, went out to dinner with them that last night, however she probably was not laughing it up with them in the kitchen as is portrayed in the film...telling them to stay as long as they want. In real life, I think she wanted them gone ASAP. Especially with her two weeks away from giving birth to her first child.

Abigail and Voytek were also not that close in the end (from various accounts). Folger was fed up with his constant drug use, wanted to quit drugs herself and fly straight, and the two fought constantly that whole Summer.

These scenes are interesting to watch. And no one, except for the testimonies of the various house help and associates, knows what really transpired during the final hours of the victims.

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I certainly can't speak for Sharon Tate, but in the last few weeks of my pregnancy, I most definitely never wanted to be alone...just in case I needed a ride to the hospital.

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Being alone and being with people who're dragging you down are two different things. I'm not all that familiar with some of these stories so I can't comment about the reality of their relationships. As a husband, though, I wouldn't have been very happy with my very pregnant wife sitting around in flowered panties with her former lover, but then I wasn't a 60s celebrity jet-setter either.

The only thing that really bothered me about Charlie in HS'04 is the way they showed him dancing around and sing-song voice ala L&O:CI's Vince d'Onofrio's Goran. The 70s version also was truer to the looks of the late '60s (obviously they didn't have to change much) and George deCinzo absolutely nailed Bugliosi compared to Bruno.

HS'04 is more of Ed Sanders "The Family" while HS'76 is more of Bugliosi's "Helter Skelter." They're not exactly bookends, but with the real docs and books available on this horrific event, they do compliment each other, and while '76 is way better in my mind, both are watchable. I'd say the definitive Manson miniseries/movie hasn't been shot yet.



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The only thing that really bothered me about Charlie in HS'04 is the way they showed him dancing around and sing-song voice ala L&O:CI's Vince d'Onofrio's Goran.

Agreed. Davies' delivery was immediately recognizable as a parody of Manson, but the real Manson simply doesn't talk like that.

Other than that, I preferred the '04 version. Admittedly that puts me in the minority. But to answer the OP's question IMO -- if you prefer a whacked out, psycho Manson, go with the '76 movie. But if you like your Manson more creepy and subtle, then it's '04. Which is one of the reasons I like '04 better -- Davies had a more complex (and IMO realistic) character to portray, and other than the weird voice and a couple of specific spots, he did it very well.

HS'04 is more of Ed Sanders "The Family" while HS'76 is more of Bugliosi's "Helter Skelter."

If you're endorsing Sanders' book, I can't agree. Too much faulty logic and groundless conclusions. "X knew Y; Y knew Z; therefore X had to have known Z" -- that sort of thing.

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I enjoyed Sanders' book for weird reasons, like his descriptions of what they ate. It made you feel you were witnessing things. That wouldn't necessarily make a better movie, of course.

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I say see them both. Watch this one first and then the 1976 version. There were some things I didn't know about the family and case before I watched this version since it wasn't mentioned in the remake. I.E. the whole Dennis Wilson thing, the fact that Linda left her daughter there when she ran away, etc, But the same thing can be said about the 1976. IN order to get the most out of the case you need to watch both.

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I like Steve Railsback's portrayal of Charlie the best. He was truly scary.

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