All right, I haven't seen it, but I have to say - it's just a frickin' TV series!!! Do you think anyone would give a flying *beep* if the series were "The Clintons" and it was making up *beep* about *their* marriage? Well, ok, maybe the liberals would scream bloody murder, too, but somehow I doubt anyone would be making death threats or boycotts.
I will concede that it's not very nice to hit a guy who's ill with Alzheimer's. But entertainment isn't about being nice.
It's not mass hysteria (most ppl here are paid puppets as seen by reading their over the top silly posts). By looking at the quick way CBS relented (after stating that it will air this series despite protest), there must have been a concentrated effort by a certain group and high level individuals that used economic leverage and threats to pull off this show cancellation.
I agree with you. This series is just entertainment (Reagan is a public figure) just like every "based on facts" movie or tv show (screenwriters make up stuff all the time to introduce drama which is necessary for a movie/tv show to be exciting). If the Reagans want to sue, then they have the right to sue. But why would anyone else get offended, especially if people have not seen it yet?
During the past few years, they censored the news under the guise of necessity (read bbc news website and you will see how much they censor in America). Now, they (this money group) is effectively censoring entertainment media. This so-called democratic society is growing ever more oppressive with increased erosion of our free speech and expression rights.
Also, this is not mainly a political move (despite the fascade of A vs B). It's class domination. The rich and powerful and dominating the poor and middle class populace. Just look at the way our rights are diminished and their pocketbooks are fattened and secured and you will see the truth.
Never trust words of human beings, look at their action instead.
BTW, I don't have Showtime and I was curious about this series since Reagan seemingly had more of a personality than our recent official. I don't favor or disfavor Reagan as a President. But, I was curious how his life was going to be portrayed. Now, we aren't allowed to see this. And I'm slightly peaked.
Censorship is what I'm against and this is clearly censorship via economic/political pressure.
Follow the money and you will discover the ones behind the power moves.
Being in Australia, I can't appreciate how much of a storm the TV series has made in the US, but isn't America always telling the rest of the world how much they value freedom of speech, and how that's one of the reasons it's the greatest nation on earth?
Now here's a TV channel forced to put their show on another, less popular channel. Seems like just one level above censorship to me.
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"I agree. Whether the series is completely inaccurate or not, what CBS did was above censorship. The producers should file a lawsuit again CBS."
I love it. Now CBS is required to show anything a producer asks them too? Get real. CBS can show whatever they darn well please. If they don't want to show a given miniseries or movie, that's okay, and is -gasp- freedom of expression. They are a network and can choose to air what they like. Or does freedom of expression only count when your a liberal?
There is "freedom of speech" but there are also laws against defimation of character. You cannot intentionally hurt another's repution -- there are libel/slander laws protecting individuals - even public figures. Now I haven't read the script - only seen bits and pieces - so I'm not saying that was the case for this film.
A few points though:
1. If there wasn't something that CBS's lawyers were worried about, why pull the film -- especially after all the free publicity?
2. No one "forced" CBS to do anything - they could have gone ahead as planned - critics be damned.
3. There is freedom of speech for both sides -- and people are free to dislike the film based on what was released, and they are free to speak out against it.
I have a problem -- with any film -- that uses public figures and historical accounts and completely fabricates quotes and events. I don't understand the point of bastardizing history.
Well said, nr91! The free market allows CBS to pull the plug if it looks like they're going to lose money on it. How would anyone feel about losting massive amounts of money for no reason? They made a mistake, but they were able to correct it before they really screwed themselves! CBS may be a liberal love-fest but it's also a business. Businesses don't run on belief--they run on money.
'Nuff Said.
nr91,
Ahh c'mon, freedom of speech is becoming a joke in the US.
When was the last time you saw a dead American soldier arriving from Iraq, or a soldier's funeral?
What's that? You haven't seen one this year?
Maybe that has something to do with the fact that the Pentagon has banned all coverage of soldiers' funerals and footage of injured soldiers until further notice. Of course, the ban is purely in the interests of the soldiers and has nothing to do with keeping bad news out of the public eye.
Sure, there's freedom of the press, and freedom of speech... so long as the government approves of it.
What does that have to do w/Reagans? Which was not cancelled, but moved from CBS to Showtime.
This was a decision made by CBS executives. It was not censorship...it was not government mandated...there were no laws created saying "CBS cannot broadcast this television psudo-documentary. People were free to cricize this docu-drama, and CBS was free to televise it. They chose not to. Perhaps you should ask them why.
As for your comments re: injured soldiers...saw a bunch of them arriving in Germany following the helicopter crash (the first one). You're right about the ban, and you're right, it is wrong -- but it hasn't stopped the media's backlash against the war.
JasonCav,
Frankly, if any news media wanted to show dead Americans, they could, and they did if you remember. Perhaps you also remember the public backlash against that too? The media has a freedom of speech. However, the public also has the freedom to protest. When a company, such as CBS, does something that is going to upset the public, the company has to weigh the advantages and disadvantages. Usually, this is in money made or lost. CBS realized that they were going to lose money and decided to be American and protect their investments.
By the way, I belive the Geneva Convention outlaws certain things, such as showing the dead bodies of soldiers. Just thought you might be interested in that fact.
The Geneva Convention does not outlaw the showing of dead soldiers' funerals, which was what I said in the first place. However, in America, the Land of Freedom, the Pentagon is trying to censor the media from showing funerals, and here are American sources to prove it:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/World/iraq_funerals_031114-1.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38338-2003Nov13.html
If any news media wanted to show dead Americans, they can't.
Sure, freedom of the press is important, so long as it shows you what the government wants you to see.
There is "freedom of speech" but there are also laws against defimation of character. You cannot intentionally hurt another's repution -- there are libel/slander laws protecting individuals - even public figures. Now I haven't read the script - only seen bits and pieces - so I'm not saying that was the case for this film.
Still missing the point here...CBS pulled the "docu-drama" -- actually they only moved it to Showtime. The government didn't pull it...the protesters just gave it more free publicity. CBS pulled the "Reagans." I don't understand why this is so hard to comprehend.
Maybe there were protests when those other shows came out -- maybe the networks ignored the protests and ran with it anyway. Maybe the inaccuracies didn't defame the subjects -- but merely dramatized certain situations. The Neo-Cons didn't pull the Reagans, and who cares what they think anyway.
If you want to stick to strict formalities and ignore the reality of ths situation, then YES, you are right, CBS made the final decision to pull the series. But at least acknowledge that CBS made no intimation of cancelling the show until the GOP (the current ruling party) got wind of the script and started making noise.
Having worked with networks before I know how involved they normally are with their productions and TV movies. Generally the network pre-approves the script before backing it, and then has a network guy on the set to oversee production. None of these supposed inaccuracies should have come as a surprise to them. However, lo and behold, when the party that controls the White House and Congress objected they suddenly "discovered" how inaccurate it was.
It seems that you are the one ignoring reality -- I'm saying that this isn't censorship because CBS moved the film to Showtime. The government didn't move the film -- some members of the GOP party complained -- but CBS still could have run with it.
CBS also would have had huge ratings if they ran with this, particularly because of all the negative publicity. They chose not to pull it, but to move it to Showtime. If anything, sponsors pulling out might have swayed CBS' decision to move it to Showtime.
If there was nothing wrong with the flick, why all of the heavy editing? What was CBS so afraid of -- is this part of some vast "right-wing" conspiracy?
The only reason for them editing "inaccuracies" would be the threat of successful legal action against them -- that is, that the film in its original form was a character assassination against Reagan and it's intention was to defame through intentionally inaccurate statements, situations, etc.
New York Time vs. Sullivan and subsequent Supreme Court First Amendment cases make it nearly impossible for a Public Figure or current and former political officials to sue for defamation. The plaintiff suing has the heavy burden of proving what the Supreme Court has defined as "Actual Malice," which all the media lawyers I've seen on TV said could Not Be Proved with this mini-series.
In Short, the Reagans have no case, as the court would have been forced to throw it out before it even reached the jury. Also if they could have sued, do you think Showtime would have risked liability by airing it?
So why did CBS not run the show?
You already conceded that this would have boosted their ratings, so clearly it was not on account of lack of potential viewership.
The only argument you are left with is the formalistic one that you keep going back to -- that it was CBS executives that gave the final order to pull the show. Strangely, I already conceded that what you say is technically correct.
Now I am asking you to take a step back and look at the reality of the situation. We have a show that would have made CBS a lot of money and that would not have been legally actionable, but was still pulled off the air.
I don't believe a conspiracy is going on here, as that would imply secrecy. What IS happening is that a very powerful party that controls the government is overtly flexing its muscles to pull a show that purpotedly demeans a popular GOP icon. That my friend, while not technically illegal or unconstitutional, is a very frightening spectre.
First, I don't know if the parts that were cut were "legally actionable" or not...but I agree that winning these types of cases are extremely difficult.
Maybe this thing was set up by CBS suits to fail...maybe they wanted to curry favor w/the GOP, so they leaked some of the "most objectionable" parts, expecting the firestorm of controversy. They ship it to Showtime, cut out the worst parts, and look like gold in the eyes of the GOP.
Interesting theory. I never thought about that. I wonder if CBS came out on top with the Republicans in the end by capitualiting.
shareIf it were the Clintons, it would be telling the TRUTH that would have Liberals in an uproar. Death threats, cmon get a friggin brain, nutcases are just nutcases - not party related. Your stupid.
shareConsidering that you CAN buy The Reagans on DVD, but you CAN'T buy The Path to 9/11 on DVD, you were utterly *beep* full of *beep* asswipe.
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