Just a broad thought but recently seeing both of these I felt there were a few connections between the two in provoking the depths of human emotion. Personally I believe Synecdoche was much more effective. Anyone else feel the same?
"May the wind always be at your back and the sun upon your face"
That's interesting. I genuinely despised Dogville, but I am in love with Synecdoche, NY.
share
Yes I was very frustrated with Dogville. I hate it when movies try too hard and Dogville fell into that category of trying so hard to be artsy that its annoying, while Synecdoche was simply like watching a work of art being painted. I found Dogville's message very shallow and one demensional while Synecdoche a complex puzzle that adresses everything.
"May the wind always be at your back and the sun upon your face"
Dogville was like a guy yelling into your ear with a bullhorn
SNY was like listening to a symphony
That's a good description of every Lars Von Trier film. He's like a terrible local lo-fi band who insists that poor production quality is a virtue. I guess charlatans have to find SOME way to stand out.
shareThat's postmodernism right there! If you call a postmodernist out on the basis of technique or aesthetics, the response given is that one shouldn't conform to 'dominant narratives'. Thus, poor production becomes a virtue simply by not 'conforming' with technique.
We must not check reason by tradition, but contrawise, must check tradition by reason - Leo Tolstoy
Dogville was poorly produced? Really? Do you honestly think that they forgot to add regular sets due to incompetence? If anything, Dogville was the pure antithesis of postmodernism since it attempted to illustrate the universality of the human condition, something that any postmodernist would disagree with. So no, the production choices there were not made due to some postmodernist conspiracy. Disagreements with that kind of use of Brecht's techniques would be at least aiming at the true nature of the film, but calling it postmodernist especially in relation with something like Synecdoche doesn't make sense to be honest.
What's pretty odd though is that all that nonsense that postmodernism stands for, the lack of objective meaning, subjective truth, no "grand narrative" or any human universalities, no two readings of the same text are the same, anything goes etc. are actually pretty well formulated in Synecdoche. The protagonist fails to find meaning, he tries to recreate life but he ends up getting lost in endless variations and repeatings because the readings change randomly. That's postmodernism right there actually.
In a way, Synecdoche is mocking an attempt very similar to the film Dogville. Where von Trier made up a symbolic representation of regular people in a little regular city and introduced a character to expose their true nature, Kauffman's protagonist attempts to absurdly recreate a huge city and by that act alone, he wants to let the truth flow from it but without having a central idea of what he's looking for first. Naturally the second guy fails. And the mockery fails as well, because at least to me, the protagonist is a farce of a human as is the concept of Synecdoche. You are obviously not going to find meaning if you don't believe there is meaning to be found and I didn't see any attempts of the protagonist to find it except those times he visited some sort of shrink.
By the way, isn't it more than a little postmodernist to use a photo of Kropotkin while quoting Tolstoy?
You are all gonna die.
Both films were conceptual stunts - show-off attempts to be different for the sake of being different - but Dogville was far more successful, and did a much better job of surprising me with a genuinely good movie made out of what, on the face of it, looked like a moronic idea.
shareDogville actually provoked thought, whereas SNY provoked reassurance that there will always be some people pretentious enough to praise even the most banal and pointless of Godard-wanna-be exercises.
shareOr is it possible that the fans of the film had a deep emotional connection to the film?
Is it possible that even though you personally didn't connect to the film, which is absolutely fine by the way, that the film has genuine substance given that there are people out there such as myself found the movie to be incredibly powerful?
Slamming its fans as pretentious annoys me because I have a feeling that a majority of the film's fans were genuinely moved by it. I am sure there are some that would pretend to like it on the basis of its abstract nature rather than genuinely liking the film, which would be the same crowd that would only defend it solely based on its underdog/weird status, but I have a feeling that that crowd has slowly weened its way away given that those folks have fleeting attention spans and would champion the next weird film regardless of its substance.
[deleted]
Is this the thread where all trolls are gathering? Too bad no one is taking the bait.
shareWhich people do you think are the "trolls" - the ones who don't think much of Synecdoche, the ones who don't think much of Dogville, or both, or neither?
I know people usually use the word "troll" to mean "person expressing disagreement with me", but if we don't know what counts as disagreeing with you, this rule of thumb isn't very helpful.
Anyone know what this guys talking about? He must just be that much smarter than us since we dont know what the phrase 'troll' means. Im glad I dont, you should be too. It means that you dont spend your life on the internet in your mothers basement..hey I think i just figured out what it meant!
"May the wind always be at your back and the sun upon your face"
Maybe you're not a troll Spleen, and these aren't fan boards and disagreement is inevitable, but:
Dogville actually provoked thought, whereas SNY provoked reassurance that there will always be some people pretentious enough to praise even the most banal and pointless of Godard-wanna-be exercises.
The thread is titled "Synechdoche vs Dogville". Its labeled like a duel. So if there are any "trolls" they're actually the people acting all 'holier than thou' because they are so 'respectful' that you can't even tell what their opinion of these films was.
Every time I actually express what I actually think about a film I get called a "troll". Apparently you can't really say anything on these boards without being deemed a "troll".
People seem to genuinely expect that every poster agree with them. What the *beep* is wrong with you guys? GEt a backbone. This is getting nauseating. The whole thread has now turned into a debate over 'who the troll is'.
I liked the film because I thought it was very funny. I liked the burning house scene because it was a little absurd. I don't think it's a particularly hard film to 'get' so I don't slap myself on the back for understanding it. I just like quirky films such as this and even 'I heart Huckabees' that wear a lot of their existential themes on their sleeve.
On the subject of the OP though - Dogville (which I've watched once) is excellent. I need to see it again, but I'd be hard pressed to choose between this and SNY, it's like comapring chalk and cheese. Lars Von Trier interweaves philosophy and psychology much more subtly and personally I think much more masterfully than Kaufman. That's not to criticise Kaufman though, I find Kaufman much more visually stimulating and I really like the absurd worlds he creates.
Every time I actually express what I actually think about a film I get called a "troll". Apparently you can't really say anything on these boards without being deemed a "troll".
You're still on about trolls ...
shareYeah, and Dogville fails miserably whereas SNY is a masterpiece that expresses universal themes beautifully.
Anton Chigurh is dead and Spider-Man 3 is superior in every way to Funny Games.
Both movies are great but very different. I think Dogville is better, Lars von Trier knows how to express exactly what he wants. I liked Synecdoche but it did not affected me as much. Just my opinion.
Dogville wins cause Kaufman cant direct.
shareAs much as I absolutely love Lars Von Trier as a filmmaker, I can't deny the fact that he is sadistic.
http://7capitalfilms.blogspot.com/share
[deleted]
Re LVT being sadistic: probably refers to the fact that the lead female characters in his movies tend to suffer throughout the story and get killed in the end.
Also, how dare you say you like both films/directors when the discussion here is clearly polarised ;)
[deleted]
I am sorry, but Synechdoche, NY does not even come close to Dogville. At least, Dogville does not make use of an annoying score to get me feel a certain kind of emotion like Synechdoche did.
shareI feel dogville is the superior film, unique cinematography, brutal cynical dark story which is handled and narrated perfectly. Synecdoche is a better film to watch about dealing with existential crisis tho.
both are high quality and must watch movies
Agreed, but I much prefer Dogville tbf.
share