Do re-feuling blimps really exist? - Stealth (2005) Discussion

[–] ross999 18 years ago

I am pretty sure that the answer is no.

They'd also be too predictable to track and probably pretty hard to refill. Besides, they'd be the first thing the baddies went for! But it'd be good peace of mind knowing there were always fuel stations in a relatively set place in the sky!

Interesting that shooting off the end of the hose means the fuel will free-flow out. Anyone in their right mind would put pumps and valves at the tanker-end of the hose.

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[–] jloper 18 years ago

Those blimps must really hauling it, considering their job is to re-fuel high performance jet fighters! ;)

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[–] cljohnston108 18 years ago

Well, I have a bit more military knowledge than you...
I waited for the DVD to drop below $10, so I'm just now seeing it.
The shot where this thing slowly comes into view had me saying, "What's this now? What am I looking at here?"
When it was fully revealed, I shouted, "Are they kidding? A frappin' BLIMP?! Did I put on 'Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow' by mistake?"

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[–] HybridCheeseMan 18 years ago

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that Artificial Intelligent jet fighters that fly solo without a pilot don't exsist either. That's crazy talk! Kinda like how they thought Jules Verne was crazy when he wrote 20,000 leagues under the sea about a Submarine! What a freaking g00n13.

At least Incubus had awesome music in it :D

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[–] mvlauritsen 17 years ago

Yes, Boeing has built the X-45 and Northrup Grumman the X-47. I worked on the X-47B, a pilotless UCAV being tested right now, Unmanned Combat Air Vehicle, the name they used in the movie for their jets. The X-47 uses the same jet engine as the F-16 manned fighter, to give you an idea of its size, and it carries its weapons in internal weapons bays, also like in the movie. It flies entirely by itself, that is to say, it's given a mission to fly, just like a manned mission, then it leaves the hanger and takes off by itself and decides how to fly to the target, how to best attack, and how to return and land by itself -- there is no Air Force pilot sitting at a console with a joystick flying the thing watching camera views out the cockpit. It's autonomous - completely automatic. I'm sure that someone is monitoring it's video throughout the mission and could abort it, or change it's target if desired, say if it's preselected target was already destroyed by another aircraft. The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter being built now for the Navy, Air Force and Marines is said to be the "last manned fighter" program.

As far as Stealth the movie goes, I enjoyed the flight sequences. I was surprised they actually made these exotic looking aircraft? They were fairly authentic, the aircraft carrier landings and takeoffs, the aircraft themselves, the UCAV's (Eddie's) vertical landings and takeoffs, and air-air combat sequences (like Top Gun) were quite entertaining. The plot was probably shot the minute the ink dried however. I'd put it in the cult-classic category of good air-air action movies, but not much else.

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[–] seenitall112 16 years ago

Christians once said the earth was flat and laughed preposterously like galahs when one said it was in fact, round.

A.I is a branch of Computer Science/Software Engineering that I am studying; currently researching & working on artificial neural networks.

Are we there yet? no. Is it possible? We humans always end up creating what we conceive, no matter how long it takes.

I thought the ending was quite bogus, but certain elements in it that were i thought quite good. They have captured what A.I is really about in the UCAVs personality; with the child like behaviour, ever so learning.

Like mvlauritsen said, they put a lot of work in to the jets and the flight sequences are some of the best Ive ever seen. So give some credit where credit is due. Just because you do not understand it does not mean it cannot exist in the future (the very near future)

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[–] falacta 15 years ago

> Christians once said the earth was flat and laughed preposterously like galahs when one said it was in fact, round.

Actually it was pretty common knowledge since ancient times that the Earth is round and early Christian monasteries were scientific academies because they perceived the world as God's creation thus beating the bible as primary source of God's will. They knew that the Greek had made experiments indicating the world is round. The wrong perception was that Earth, not the sun, was the center.

> I thought the ending was quite bogus, but certain elements in it that were i thought quite good. They have captured what A.I is really about in the UCAVs personality; with the child like behaviour, ever so learning.

Is there actually any sense in teaching a weapon to think that way? There is no real advantage to gain when the flight system is capable to steer through enemy fire and knows certain approach logics for aerial combat. The whole automated weapons thing gains alot solely by removing the G-limit of human beings and their reaction times. No need to think to be quicker and deadlier than a human pilot in most circumstances.

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[–] venem123 15 years ago

recently there was a story about a test flight of a plane like the one in stealth except there was a human in the cockpit. the computer took control of the plane from the pilot (whomever decided that was a smart idea.. wow). the computer couldnt decide how to control the plane properly so it just floated there and wobbled until it flipped over and crashed. luckily the pilot had ejected after some effort (the computer wouldnt let him eject either).

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[–] Phidippides 18 years ago

Yeah I also thought it was a bit too much like a page out of "Sky Captain". What were they thinking with this?

Producers:

"Well, since we're talking about cool futuristic-looking planes, and we need to get past this fuel issue, maybe we can just throw in a futuristic metallic-looking refueling blimp that people will assume is so top secret that they've never seen it before!"

History discussion forum @http://www.westerncivforum.com

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[–] Guysmiley777 18 years ago

No, in the most emphatic way possible, there is no such thing as a floating blimp tanker. This (I'm guessing) is the result of a producer snorting too much cocaine in one sitting ala An Evening With Kevin Smith and the Giant Spider debacle.

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[–] Just_a_critic 18 years ago

Yes that's why we have Acid Rain,

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[–] r-1 18 years ago

There are no such blimps! They tried them (no, they didn't! :)), but they fall of the sky all the time because they forgot that thin air is not buoyancy enough for something without aerofoils!
It's too bad, isn't it.

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[–] gijane71 18 years ago

Proably gonna catch it for this - remember -the way they tried to get away with crap like that is that the movie is supposed to take place in the future.

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[–] kenw929 18 years ago

yep - it'll go alongside the underwater toaster to be invented in 20 years time.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] aaid 18 years ago

Well, with helium it is possible.....ha ha if you make it 100,000 times bigger than what is shown!
And the fighter would drop out of the sky before the blimp because it couldn't fly that slow. You could never make a blimp fly fast enough to keep up with a jet even at the jets slowest speed.
The blimp is shown to have a metal frame.....that is not a balloon!
You should engage brain before mouth.
Did you know that gullible is not in the dictionary?
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If you look to see, you are gullible.... :)
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Doesn't matter how high you get, except the higher the lighter the air and the FASTER the jet would have to fly to keep from stalling out.
There would be less air to keep the jet flying.
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Anyone reading your reply can tell who is mentally retarded.
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The bottom line: the blimp is absolutely Hollywood!
Just like the types of trees in North Korea 22 miles from the border....what a laugh.

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[–] ShamanGogo 18 years ago

Im laughing at every one exclaiming that the blimps would have to travel as fast as the jets for refuelling...

...its seems you all forgot the jets in this film have a hover mode much like harriers.

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[–] cheeseycom 18 years ago

Edi can hover, but the rest of the jets can't.

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[–] sinister_prog 17 years ago

The hoses trailing behind the blimp would have to be ridgid if the blimp is moving slow. Watch how the hose behaves when EDI shoots it. That is one seriously fast blimp in the movie.

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[–] nighthawk936 15 years ago

u burn more fuel to hover than the pace u receive
also at 30,000ft, u cant hover

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] cheeseycom 18 years ago

Umm.. you do know that high altitude balloons and blimps do exist, right? Without aerofoils.

and they go much higher then that fake-ass blimp would have been flying, if it existed.

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[–] CGSailor 18 years ago

r-1,
You are right but for the wrong reason.
Yes, there are no refueling blimps or anything like that.
Not even on the drawing boards.
At least the UCAV's are a developing concept ( The X-45) being developed by DARPA
But its not anything to do with the boyancy of air. You write...

they fall of the sky all the time because they forgot that thin air is not buoyancy enough for something without aerofoils

The Current World Altitude record for manned balloon flight is 34,668 m (113,740 feet) set April 5, 1961. Commander Malcom D. Ross and Lieutenant Victor A. Prather, Jr. (US Navy) Strato-Lab program, USS Antietam, in the Gulf of Mexico. Lt. Prather died when his pressure suit filled with water on landing.

The altitude record for unmanned balloons is (1991 edition of Guinness Book) 51.8 kilometres (170,000 feet). The vehicle was a Winzen-Balloon with a volume of 1.35 million cubic metres, which was launched in October 1972 in Chico, California, USA. This is the greatest altitude ever reached by a flying object requiring the surrounding air. Higher altitudes can only be reached by ballistic vehicles such as rockets, rocket planes or projectiles.

Sir! Put the mouse down and step back from the keyboard.. slowly

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[–] Spartan-Echo 17 years ago

Yes they do, I think they send them up and tow them up and then they have their own low-fuel engines to keep them flying in circles.

That might not be right but I know for sure they do exist and they are used for re-fueling fighter planes

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[–] certifiedsane 18 years ago

Off topic but there were experiments in the 1930s (I think) with using blimps/zeppelins as aircraft carriers. A few aircraft could be carried, launched and recovered while the blimp was in mid air. Perhaps the movie makers had something like this in mind when they thought of the fuel blimps.
Cheers.

After the revolution the revolutionaries become revolting - R. Miles

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[–] kodax2 18 years ago

OK..I dont think its that beyond the realm of possibility. There is no reason to think that thing is a blimp. It may have been a giant unmanned tanker that hovers at high altitude using its own fuel. There is also no reason to believe that it hovers permanently. It may set down once in a while, it may have been on route somewhere..perhaps to deliver the fuel.

After all, there are oil tankers floating around all the time...some of them make up the US strategic oil reserve. They are vulnerable targets in times of war but just another ship in times of peace. Since this movie was taking place during peacetime, its not that improbable to have floating refueling vessels.

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[–] Lonehawk1 18 years ago

Man this thread is awesome. What a fun read! More argueing (did I spell that right?) please! LOL!

Ok, also, it was not a blimp. Sheesh! Don't you guys know anything?! This was a "U.S." floating fuel carrier. It was "obviously" floating--not with old technology--but with the latest anti-gravity generators they backward engineered from the spaceship they have at Area 51! Wasn't that obvious? :P

The only reason it "looked" like a blimp is because they couldn't make the anti-gravity generators very small with our present materials and technology. So they housed it where the "helium" would go in the old days. And yes, of coarse they are always up there ready to fuel the ever watchful U.S. jets/stealth planes/space ships/porto-stargates without being seen; because they have cloaking devices to protect them when not in use! (Of coarse EDI could "decloak" the thing even if he couldn't get the password right. I mean c'mon, smart as EDI was, he was still just a youngster!) :P

Did anyone else go through a box of Kleenex when EDI "sacrificed" himself for our two stalwart young heros at the end. I mean, wow, that was deep. It really got to me ya know? Right here. (Ooops, that was the--too much munchies for one movie--talkin'. Ah well, I felt "something")

All in all, I can't wait for the sequel. But maybe this time...could we have a flying, AI controlled then comes to life underwater toaster like a previous poster said? I think that would add more drama and emotional connection for me really. He he.

==If time flies when your having fun; how does it get around when you're bored? :P==

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Miklos7 18 years ago

You could get Zeppelins to refuel....They are larger.

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[–] CGSailor 18 years ago

OK..I dont think its that beyond the realm of possibility. There is no reason to think that thing is a blimp. It may have been a giant unmanned tanker that hovers at high altitude using its own fuel. There is also no reason to believe that it hovers permanently. It may set down once in a while, it may have been on route somewhere..perhaps to deliver the fuel.

In the context of a Sci-Fi (Fi means FICTION by the way{FICTION Means NOT-TRUE by the way})
But the OP was asking if they are real, and they absolutely are NOT real. By your post you show that you have as much military knowledge as the OP admits to having. i.e. NONE
Your next line shows you have even less...

After all, there are oil tankers floating around all the time...some of them make up the US strategic oil reserve. They are vulnerable targets in times of war but just another ship in times of peace. Since this movie was taking place during peacetime, its not that improbable to have floating refueling vessels

First off you propose these aerial floating tankers exist because we have oceanic tankers... O M G what a leap of illogic!
Then you go on to say that some of these make up the strategic oil reserves.
{cough} {Cough} BULLS###T
Our US Strategic Oil Reserves are stored away underground in mined out salt domes located throught the USA. not on tankers floating around somewhere in the air or on the ocean.

Now I Love Science Fiction and I love debates that spring up on many of the sci-fi movie boards trying to explain things that aren't real in real terms. Taken in that context I thought your post pretty interesting. But you missed a key point in the Original Posters question...
ARE.
THEY.
REAL.
?
To post what you did claiming they are real when they arent just goes to show your own ignorance. please don't.
Sir! Put the mouse down and step back from the keyboard.. slowly

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[–] myk-harwood 8 years ago

I know I'm necro-posting here, but I think you might have over reacted a tiny bit. I didn't get the impression that the guy was claiming that these things actually exist, but just suggesting that they might be possible.
Apart from being almost completely useless as a front line military asset, and therefore extremely unlikely to attract development funding, I don't really see why such a craft would be impossible to build.

--Myk

I'm probably being sarcastic...

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