Simple question. Are we supposed to feel bad for Alan? Are we supposed to sympathize with him? Are we supposed to see him as being an innocent kid that gets picked on by malicious bullies?
Because, honestly, I hated him. He was worse than anybody else in this movie, and I thought he deserved everything that happened to him.
Anyone know what the director was going for?
Possibly. This film sure needed a little rewrite.
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He was immature and childish for sure, I hated him too, he did need to get his ass kicked, but he was honestly just an awkward kid who wanted to fit in, besides, nobody deserves what happened to him. So after a while I did kinda feel bad for him. But you're right, they could have made his character a lot better.
The left call me a fascist
The right call me a communist
Just because we rooted for Angela in the original, doesn't mean we root for Alan in this one.
Alan is just a red herring, it was easy to make us think he could be the killer because the kid who got picked on in the original was the killer.
"Cinema is everything to me. I live and breathe films -- I even eat them!"
- Lucio Fulci
but he was honestly just an awkward kid who wanted to fit in, besides, nobody deserves what happened to him.
I have no idea what the director had in mind. I think that we are supposed to think he is the killer, but once the "sheriff" shows up it's obvious who the real killer is going to be. I think we are supposed to feel sorry for him for being picked on, because our killer decides to kill to exact revenge for him, but honestly, I think Allan got what he deserved. He was just as much a bully as everyone else and in a camp seemingly filled with nothing but people you want to see die he's the one I felt should have gotten it worse then anyone.
~*Copulate me nonviolently with a mechanical gas powered tree cutting device!*~
If Alan had been victimized from the getgo,not a complete *beep* who deserved it; then maybe I'd feel bad for him. I didn't have a single ounce of sympathy for him. I had more sympathy for the victims,even though they all seemed bland in my eyes. Maybe if he was dealing with someone about five times worse than Judy and Meg,perhaps. But he's not worth it.
They should have planned this out more,instead of making him the obvious red herring. And question,if 2,3 and 4 are non-canon and just AU; then what happened to Angela during the 20 year gap? Is it taking a bit from 2 and 3;where Angela got a sex change and therapy? All I recall is that Ricky visits Angela once in a while.
I feel like I'm surrounded by a bunch of dumb people. - Sophia from "Kid Nation"
The script is obviously just badly written and incoherent.
shareThat's the real PROBLEM with the movie. in slashers generally in the FIRST in the series.. you ROOT for the main girl.. and after that, most of the characters are rather bland and just cannon fodder for the BAD guy. This one was built around the whole is it Angela or Alan? NOT a real mystery (as others said ONCE that cop showed up).
The thing about the original was that Angela was quiet.. and shy.. and awkward. You didn't want to see her die. And you felt bad she almost got molested. This one? the MAIN "red herring" as it were.. he's obnoxious, nasty, and just.. flat out crazy. Granted he may have a developmental disorder of some sort. Which does illicit a certain level of sympathy.. BUT his actions pretty much rule that out. And him being VICTIMIZED and tortured.. well hell I think I would have been first in line to slap him around.
So.. you don't have a kille really, since its just.. you don't know. And you have ZERO likable characters.. its just an exercise in special fx, which.. weren't all that great I hate to say.. then the FINAL REVEAL.. just cheesy as all hell, and like I said NOT a real shock to anyone watching the movie.
For 25 years of WAITING.. if it had meant a BETTER movie I could have waited another 10. But considering this somehow first got MADE.. then they spent 2-3 years on "digital fx" work (so the posts I read CLAIMED.. where were these fx anyway?).
I think this was supposed to be like Halloween H20, which erased 4-6 from canon (3 if you count that, too). We're supposed to pretend the other sequels never happened, I guess.
I saw it last night, it wasn't bad for a "reunion" film, despite the imperfections.
My head hurts.
"I'll go,because I am Cinema!" - Ben (Man Bites Dog)
What Alan did was nothing compared to what everyone else did to him. Alan played little innocent pranks on people. He didn't shove people up on some stage naked for everyone to see. Alan did NOT deserve all that he got.
Your chains are still mine, you belong to me! - The Phantom Of The Opera
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I'd go through stages of hating him and feeling bad for him. Feeling bad for him when they would tease him but then hating him when he was such a douche to some of the smaller kids.
It was making me so grossed out how that shirt he was wearing just got dirtier and dirtier.
"Alan is the greatest character ever written in the history of film making!"
LOL!!... XD
Alan is... different. At least he's original, that's for sure lol. I agree with the guy who said the script needed to be rewritten in places, then this movie would have been great.
This movie was...a movie. I can't tell if it was supposed to be a comedy, horror, thriller or mystery. It kinda just exists in a movie genre limbo. I know I was supposed to feel bad for alan at certain points in the film, and I almost did. Then I remembered him saying 'your ass stinks' and I lost any tiny bit of sympathy that I could possibly muster up. He was a DOUCHE. I see people kinda defending him in a way, but i honestly think he brought it all on himself. I mean to start of he's a total dick to his bunk mates and then tries to flame-thrower them. Then he disrespects his counselor guy that night and in the cafeteria. If anyone went too far it would be the counselor, but jesus christ on a cracker alan was annoying as *beep* I would hate him too if I were a counselor. He clearly knows right from wrong, he's not that slow, and then he uses the 'im sick boo hoo feel bad for me' bit. Its irritating that ronnie and petey believe alan over everyone else at that friggin camp. He used his 'illness' (god only knows what that is) as an excuse to get special treatment. He threw a knife at someone. No. Seriously. Think about that for a second. Cause he THREW a KNIFE at someones FACE. How does that not get someone kicked out? I don't care if you're a bulimic autistic 10 year old with brain cancer and leprosy, if you throw knives at someone you shouldn't be around people. End of story. I have a lot more that I could say about him, but I'm sure it would just be repeating other people. So, to end on a note that may sway you towards hating alan, your ass stinks.
P.S. I know that my "bulimic autistic 10 year old with brain cancer and leprosy" thing was kinda extreme, but I think it helped me get my point across. Everything I mentioned (besides leprosy) is something that I have dealt with, either me personally or someone very close to me. I don't know if knowing that would make it less offensive to anyone, but I don't take any of those things lightly. Except for being 10. Being 10 years old can be taken lightly.
actually i thought your comment was pretty *beep* funny. but i can't say i blame you for adding that at the end. actually Alan starts out to be a guy you feel bad for. but than he just gets worse & worse. & one of the MAIN things that did it for me was this kid's acting.
it was *beep* TERRIBLE! really the ONLY who could act was "Issac Hayes" the fat guy "Vincent P." is a good actor but it wasn't one of his better acting jobs that's for damn sure. the special FX i think were when that kid got killed by i believe firecracker. & i thought that looked pretty cool actually. a lot of people didn't like that it was CG but i don't honestly care if it was or not.
& when that dude got skinned alive that's another FX that was later added on. if they actually DO end up FINALLY making the last one. they should do EVERYONE a favor & recast Alan, don't get me wrong if they want to use the same Character Alan i can live with that. but 1st get a MUCH BETTER actor who you can deal with.
& who is a guy you can actually care about & who you don't want to get killed plus have him not talk as much as well. i say recast him cause they left us on a cliff-hanger. like i said GET A BETTER ACTOR!
i think one of the things that also screwed this movie up is if someone doesn't make a movie for a long period of time. like the Director & Writer of this one. they forgot how to actually write a film. he wrote a better script with characters we can actually care about & the acting was a little better in the original as well.
we also had the mean kids as well. but they had little kids who could actually act & it had comedy & heart. & the comedy wasn't written badly like it was in this film. none of that carried over in this film. i believe the director/writer is a lawyer? i forget what his profession actually is so bear with me.
my point is he went like 15-20 years without writing anything to my best of knowledge so that's why his script was so bad. if i recall he did do treatments for he other sequels but was turned down. for part 2 at least. that would have been great IF they had used those.
oh i also forgot that "F.Rose" was pretty good in this. when she played "Jerry" it wasn't that great but once she was able to play Angela her acting improved. & that's why it pissed me off when it ended when it did. cause i saw someone who could actually fawking ACT! anyways that's my rant sorry about it's length.
my point is he went like 15-20 years without writing anything to my best of knowledge so that's why his script was so bad.
i agree sean, he should have done that. which is why i hope the next one is at least a decent enough film. in short an upgrade to this one. i didn't expect this one to be as good as the original to be honest. nor do i expect to enjoy the next one as much as the original but i do expect to not want to have the lead
character who we are SUPPOSE To *beep* care about to get killed at some point.
so in short i don't expect much, nor do i set my standards to high either man. but i guess i put them kind of in the middle maybe? i dunno what other way to put it.
I found it incredibly hard to feel bad for Alan, really. Right from the get-go, he's cursing at people, and acting like a bully to others around him. Sure, he probably developed it from the people who made fun of him, but I hated his personality. He was a a total jerk to people, and then turned around and played the "I'm such a sweet, but poorly treated boy, you should give me food :(" card whenever he was around Ronnie or Petey. But even around Frank you saw his true colors!
Sure, he could be sick, which grants one small iota of sympathy from me. Sure, he's continuously made fun of, and probably was before that. Hell, with a step brother like Michael, I could imagine that his life is less than sunshine and roses. The way he's almost insane about how people make fun of him, I wouldn't be surprised if he has been stuffed into lockers and made fun of his entire life. But that doesn't give him the right to turn around and be a jerk to others.
Here's what I think the director was going for:
Alan being bullied a lot led him to think that if he bullies those that are smaller and weaker than him (like the younger kids in his cabin) then the cool kids would find him cool in return. But they don't and still bully him. And the only ways Alan can feel better is by hanging out with his frogs or lash out at everyone else in retaliation, but it makes the situation worse.
I think we really weren't suppose to root for anyone because everyone was bad in their on way. Alan was bad for being a crazed, anti-social bully. The (so-called) cool kids were bad for picking on him in the worse ways imaginable. The owner of the camp and other counselors were bad for not doing anything to stop the bullying.
Does that help?
"Don't be stupid!
Be a smarty!
Come and join the Nazi Party!"
-The Producers
Here's what I think the director was going for:
Alan being bullied a lot led him to think that if he bullies those that are smaller and weaker than him (like the younger kids in his cabin) then the cool kids would find him cool in return. But they don't and still bully him. And the only ways Alan can feel better is by hanging out with his frogs or lash out at everyone else in retaliation, but it makes the situation worse.
I think we really weren't suppose to root for anyone because everyone was bad in their on way. Alan was bad for being a crazed, anti-social bully. The (so-called) cool kids were bad for picking on him in the worse ways imaginable. The owner of the camp and other counselors were bad for not doing anything to stop the bullying.
Does that help?
It's right there in my last post "...because everyone was bad in their own way." Not everyone is a good/innocent person. It may not make sense to you, but it did to me. Ever seen A Clockwork Orange? The main protagonist starts out as an antagonist, and the things Alex Delarge and his friends did to people were, in a word, *beep* *SPOILER* After Alex goes through a treatment that rids his feelings of sex and violence, everyone treats him like *beep* In the end, you feel more sorry for him than anyone else. Look at reality, you wouldn't root for every human being on earth, would you?
"Don't be stupid!
Be a smarty!
Come and join the Nazi Party!"
-The Producers
It's right there in my last post "...because everyone was bad in their own way."
Not everyone is a good/innocent person. It may not make sense to you, but it did to me. Ever seen A Clockwork Orange? The main protagonist starts out as an antagonist, and the things Alex Delarge and his friends did to people were, in a word, *beep* *SPOILER* After Alex goes through a treatment that rids his feelings of sex and violence, everyone treats him like *beep* In the end, you feel more sorry for him than anyone else.
Look at reality, you wouldn't root for every human being on earth, would you?
Actually, not all the characters are bad. There's the one counselor that was always there for Alan when he was being "mistreated." Ronnie accuses her of being Angela.
shareA very few people. The script still needed work.
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I don't mean to come across as condescending, but the obvious answer as to why a writer would make so many of the cast unlikable is so we would root for the killer and enjoy seeing them get what was coming to them.
I do agree that Alan wasn't well written though. Seeing him misbehave enough to be disliked by the others would have been smart, but they overplayed that aspect and made him an unlikeable character that we have no real sympathy for. I disagree that the actor playing Alan was s h i t though, I thought he played the mix of awkward and obnoxious quite well.
"Kid vicious did the heavy lifting. Cordy just mwa-ha-ha'ed at us."
I don't mean to come across as condescending, but the obvious answer as to why a writer would make so many of the cast unlikable is so we would root for the killer and enjoy seeing them get what was coming to them.
Yes.. but I hated Alan from the first scene to the last. And every other single character too. The thing is you should have a single character you find decent or could sympathize with. Otherwise characters are nothing but meaningless cannon fodder. Which they were.
The case of Alex from Clockwork Orange you follow him and at first are appalled and slowly throughout the changed forced on him you do sympathize with him because he is made defenseless. Alan is as much a bully as he is a victim beginning to end.