MovieChat Forums > Jindabyne (2006) Discussion > They Didn't Do Anything Wrong, Really.

They Didn't Do Anything Wrong, Really.


I think the reaction of the townspeople was as bad as the fishermen's doing nothing, and all the church-going and aboriginal spiritual folk behaved as despicably by judging something based on half the facts-- or judging someone period-- especially the wife, who I found a bit cold. But if you stop and pay attention to what happened, it seems clear how things panned out for the fishing group was natural, and fair-- [during the trip,] from their shock they gradually calmed and continued their journey in the park. What stood out to me was a previous line, when it was jokingly said they'd return the younger of the fisherman a man. It was a spiritual journey of sorts, birds chirping over the kids headphones, etc, and an innocent happening, twisted by all the issues that had noting to do with it. Never mind the madman repairing the church, but the marriage, blame, anger, racism, sexism (I didn't think, why aren't they covering her body? I thought, she's dead, and there was a frightening beauty in the river scene, of something maybe like lost connection). In the end anyway, like that flooded town, the true feeling got buried by comparatively trivial things. I think that was a point of the movie, or story. It reminded me anyway of that recent film with Claire Danes, Little Children.

As a PS, yeah, I would have gone for help as soon as possible-- but then I wasn't there, so I don't really know how I would have reacted.
--

An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way -Buk

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I've seen the movie twice and I've always wanted to know...

What would have happened if one of the guys would have died on the trip (fell down a hill, had a heart attack, slipped on a rock, fell in the river and then downed).

There no chance of recitation, he's dead.

Would the rest of the group had tied him to a tree and continued on with the rest of their fishing trip?

I think not.

- Monica

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There are all types of 'what if's'. What if the body found was the killer's, whose identity no one had any idea of? Maybe he drank poison, from guilt. The point is the act wasn't premeditated, they weren't killers, they panicked and did what they thought was best-- not necessarily 'right', if anyone's qualified to be a judge of right or wrong. Then, the righteous town-folk treated them like less than human. That's kind of ironic.

It wasn't about a fishing trip, it was more meditative than a couple guys pounding beers.

And maybe they would have continue the trip had it been their friend. You don't know necessarily what effect grief or heavy emotion can have on a person's equilibrium, in such a situation.

I think in life it's not what you done but what you do. They might have been stupid, wrong, but the actions of their peers were worse.

An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way -Buk

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Maybe that's exactly the point of the central event in the film--to divide the audience into two groups, one that thinks the guys were really disgusting for what they did, and one that thinks "well, what difference would it have made one way or the other"?

I actually think that's the strength of the film, such as it is. It doesn't center itself around an event that is obviously and inarguably wrong.

You also have to look at the problem as if the characters and their relationships were real. What I mean is, from a distance, since the viewer has no personal stake in it, it's easy to think "eh, it's not like the guys did anything all that wrong." Maybe so. But if you knew you were sleeping with somebody every night who was able to proceed with whatever recreational thing he/she was doing, well...a lot of people would think, "You know, I'm not really so crazy about this." You might think, for instance, do I really know this person like I thought I did? I think particularly a woman might think, Jesus, he just went on fishing. I can't articulate exactly what's so bad about that, but it _seems_ bad, and I really just don't want him touching me until I figure this out. It's too weird. Not clearly evil or bad, but unsettling.

Anyway, that's what I thought they were going for.

You referred to what the "peers" did; I actually thought (as it appears you did) that was the weakness of the film, because it took the subtlety of what I was talking about above and turned it into something so definitely worth vilifying that it seemed to me the story lapsed into melodrama too often.

On the other hand, it's possible that the intended purpose was not to show that these reactions were justified, but rather to show how such an event can provoke a whole series of reactions that don't really inhere in the precipitating event so much as in what people bring to it--their own views and agendas, their relationship with the guys who were involved in the event (or lack of one), etc.

If that was the intent, though, I think it wasn't made particularly clear, which--because of film conventions, I suppose--leaves the viewer with the impression that the filmmakers intended to say that the reactions were at least roughly justified.

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Actually, now that I think about it, I may have to go back and watch the film again, because maybe I did miss cues that indicated the filmmakers' intent to depict the reactions of various people and groups in the town as being somewhat overreactive, oversensitive, and/or off-point way. This is the same guy who did Lantana, which, if you ever saw that, was done with real skill and subtlety, and on second thought it probably _would_ be a bit unusual for Jindabyne to have been as ham-fisted as it originally appeared to me in this regard.

It's worth noting that it is possible both for the event itself to be at least a little bit disturbing (which would make the Byrne character and his friends wrong), and also for the reactions to the event to be a bit out of hand and hyperdramatic; in other words, to depict hyperreaction and off-point reaction doesn't require that the original event be of zero significance, only that it's not of _sufficient_ significance, at least in the eyes of some. So you can't read hyperreaction, off-point reaction, etc., backwards into a determination that the original event wasn't worth worrying about at all. It's possible that instead of the usual movie formula of working backward from the conclusion, so the precipitating event is close to an exact match in terms of legitimate motivation for whatever comes afterward, here you have something more like real life where an event would be sufficient to motivate _some_ sort of reaction, but then that reaction goes beyond whatever would've been justified by only the event itself.

Really, don't events like this have a way of doing that? Everybody superimposes their own meanings on an event that may have been only sort of medium-bad to begin with; sides are chosen; real people are caricatured into players in a drama for consumption by readers of tabloids and such; and people interpret and use the event according to their own agenda. The actual truth and meaning of the original event almost don't matter anymore by the time it all gets ginned up.

Maybe I'm giving the filmmakers too much credit, I don't know. But I do remember thinking that's what it seemed to me might have been going on.

I do think a couple of the critics got it right in saying that the film tends to split audiences along gender lines, with men tending to think nothing all that bad happened, the girl's not any more dead than she was to begin with, etc., while women tend to think there's something profoundly disturbing about it even if you can't articulate the precise reason why. There's something very Deborah Tannen about that. ;-)

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Since the killer was never found, where else could they vent their anger. And in a way their actions, whether it was mere indiffrence or perhaps just reluctance to interrupt what could be a brilliant fishing trip, could have really hamper the investigation. The more time she is exposed to the elements the greater chance evidence can be worn away.

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>> And in a way their actions, whether it was mere indiffrence or perhaps just reluctance to interrupt what could be a brilliant fishing trip, could have really hamper the investigation. The more time she is exposed to the elements the greater chance evidence can be worn away. <<

Hmm. I hate it when somebody else thinks of something I didn't. You're absolutely right, of course.

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I could be wrong, it has happened once before back in '87 ;p
The original short story was written a few decades ago, i think, so the technology wouldn't have been available then to take advatage of all the physical evidence, but because they had mobile phones, i assumed it was taking place close to current times. If so that means during the drought, so what the heck was that Claire watering the grass in the middle of the day? and she'd the gall to call her husband irresponsible!

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Exactly, they could always go fishing, the river wasn't going anywhere, but the evidence on the woman was, and to ignore it was so selfish and immoral that they deserved all the grief they got, and more. The only good they did was at the end when they went to the funeral gathering and did not when the anger from the Aboriginals was directed at them.

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I actually think that's the strength of the film, such as it is. It doesn't center itself around an event that is obviously and inarguably wrong.

I believe it IS an event that is inarguably wrong - that's why we have criminal laws against it. Interfering with a deceased person is a very serious matter and quite possibly the last taboo no matter what culture you're from.

The fact that she was already dead and beyond help, and even what could be considered the very important issue of disintegration of evidence, have nothing to do with it.

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What a load of crap.

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Excellent point. I agree with you.



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I do think, at the least, that the man who killed the girl did wrong - are you saying he was right to kill her?

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I think one of the things that makes this film less easy to react to for Americans is that it's undercurrents of racism don't seem as obvious to us. My experiences with my Australian friends leads me to believe that theirs is still a largely segregated society and closer to the American South of the mid 1960s than it is to present day American race relations. They don't have whites only drinking fountains but there'sd a real Us and them attitude in areas with large populations of "abo's" as I hear aboriginals refered to (when they aren't calling them "Blacks").

I'm not familair with the story this is based on ( "So Much Water So Close to Home" but I would assume it's set in the American South and the filmmaker translated the story to rural Australia.

The question of whether or not they did anything wrong is not answered in any one way in the film on purpose. rather, the director and writer simply show you who thinks it was wrong and why. The focus of the story is on Laura Linney's character who is an outsider bringing american values to the incident. She wants to do what is so common these days in the USA - make a public gesture, sing kumbyaya, hold hands and make it all better. That she seemingly can't do that and can't interest anyone else in doing that spurs her on to a deeper exploration of her unease. It's just as easy and tempting to judge her for her clomping around like an insensitive lout, poking her finger into the wounds caused by the event and her husband's seemingly callous treatment of the corpse.

I was pleased with the ending. I thought it was going to go somewhere much darker. Did anybody else think that was where it was heading?

I thought that having left her husband, nobody would think to look for her if she met up with that maniac and ultimately wound up in the river herself.

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Daverat--

I agree with pretty much everything you say here, esp. the very significant cultural contexts and how not only Linney's character but everybody else seemed to react in ways that were self-focused--except for the abo community, of course, which was the one that experienced the real loss. Some of my own lineage is through Australia, and I have relatives there, so I recognize the on-point nature of what you're saying here.

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the abo community


you seem like an intelligent person from your other posts so i'm going to assume you accidentally took your cue from an above poster here.

but just letting you know using that word is a BIG no-no - pretty much the australian equivalent of using the 'n' word, and not in a 'reclaimed, friend-zone' sense...

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Actually didn't take the cue from another poster, but from colloquial discussions I've heard from being around Ozzies and NZers. (I do have Australian relatives, but I'm not talking about any conversations involving them.)

At any rate, all apologies. Had no idea it was offensive, no.

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no worries 

colloquial discussions I've heard from being around Ozzies and NZers.

yup - most likely racist aussies and kiwis, or at best ignorant aussies and kiwis - but definitely most likely the former, as the latter would have to be living under a rock.

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They don't have whites only drinking fountains but there'sd a real Us and them attitude in areas with large populations of "abo's" as I hear aboriginals refered to (when they aren't calling them "Blacks").


while you are correct in your assertion that in some areas there is an 'us versus them' mentality (particularly around areas with large indigenous populations and also large red-neck populations) exists, i just wanted to let you know if your friends are referring to aboriginal people as that shortened version that you mentioned, they are spreading the usage of a very racist term. it's the equivalent of using the 'n' word in america, and not in the reclaimed manner...even just saying 'blacks' can sound bad in the wrong circumstances.

more acceptable slang if you need to have a word for indigenous people/aboriginal people, and don't know what mob they're from - blackfella (for a girl is fine too).

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"I do think, at the least, that the man who killed the girl did wrong - are you saying he was right to kill her?"

Are you asking me? If so, of course it was wrong.



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They were derelict in their duty by not summoning help sooner. There's no doubt about that. But the girl was beyond help, they were confused, and having waited a certain amount of time, there was no going back. What I did find objectionable was the fact that they compromised the crime scene by tethering her - better to have let nature take its course and let her drift where the stream took her. IMHO. Or they could simply have said that they didn't even find her until late on the Sunday night - that's a lie, but so is what they did.

It was her hard luck that that horrible man caught up with her, and their hard luck that they became involved. With the added frisson of her being an aboriginal, of course, and all the instant accusations of racism, etc.

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The movie stunk.
But, why the fuss about the guys not reporting the body right away? As a former real-life homicide detective, not just a watcher of movies, I knew of hundreds of witnesses who refused to share their knowledge of who committed atrocious crimes with the police. These are the cowardly wrong-doers who should be condemned and ostracized not a couple of mopey fishermen who had no evil intent or action. The movie seemed to care only about the fishermen and not in the search for the killer

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It's been hammered into our heads here in America - well, mine, anyway - by the overabundance of crime shows on TV that when you come on a crime scene you

1) Don't disturb anything so as not to compromise the evidence, and
2) Notify the authorities immediately.

I could not believe that Gabriel Byrne's character touched the body at all. He should have left it alone, not moved it, not tethered it, not changed ANYTHING about it, and called the police.

But that's not what happened, is it? Even so, I don't think the four friends' inaction warranted the reaction they received from their wives and girlfriends and the other townspeople. They were simply negligent, possibly somewhat selfish.

What about the killer? He never gets found out. What about the police? They didn't try too hard to find the killer. How about sending a little rage their way?

I don't think the four were racist or sexist, regardless of accusations along those lines. I don't think it would have mattered to them if the dead person were white or a boy. They didn't want to interrupt their long-awaited fishing trip, that's all. Judging by their reactions, the body had already decomposed some, enough to stink anyway, and there wasn't a whole lot they could do to help at that point. I wish at least one of them had said something like that out loud. That seemed a reasonable enough attitude, if they weren't going to drop everything and spring into action. If only he hadn't tethered the body with fishing line, leaving obvious damage, they could have just lied about when they discovered the body, saying they found it on Sunday and called the police as soon as they got to their cars. But noooooooo ...

Someone mentioned being satisfied with the ending. If you're talking about our "heroes" attending the memorial and, after some inital resentment, being more or less welcomed, then sure, OK, that was nice. But they still had to sit on their side of the clearing without really being accepted. And nothing ever happened to the killer, except getting stung by a wasp. The story was unresolved - very frustrating. I felt very let down by this.

If this were the X-Files or The Twilight Zone, he would have been allergic to the sting and died a horrible painful death. That would have helped make this movie worthwhile. As it is, there's an awful lot of nothing going on here.

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If you don´t report a crime as fast as possible, there´s less chance of the perpetrator getting caught. It´s really simple.

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It did seem pretty callous that they didn't report it right away. Although they had hiked pretty far away. But, to go on fishing is just wrong.

What REALLY bugged me about the movie was that nobody cared or worried about the murderer. He's following them around...and he's still free at the end of the movie. Why didn't he mess with Laura Linney's character?

I thought the movie was pretty interesting though. It had me sucked in at 1:00 in the morning.

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Clair Danes wasn't in Little Children. Kate Winslet was.

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I have been in that area and it's days drive to anywhere. There is no indigenous community it's a park you have to pay to into that whole area. Building a fire would get you arrested. It is a film not a documentary. It is also aboriginal not to talk about the dead at all. So all the sub text and moral high ground is anachronistic.

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I thought it was a good movie. But contrary to some of the posts, the fishermen definitely did the wrong thing. It's sort of like me on my way to a party on a Friday night, stepping over a dead body, and saying I'll deal with it when I get back. Not morally correct. As well as they didn't know whether or not someone else could have been in immediate danger in the park and in need of help.

"We're building a Starbucks inside of Starbucks so you don't have to leave to go to Starbucks!"

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They definitely 110% did the wrong thing and anyone who says otherwise has no sense of morality or compassion. What they did was heinous.

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They definitely 110% did the wrong thing and anyone who says otherwise has no sense of morality or compassion. What they did was heinous.


exactly - regardless of all the crime scene issues people keep talking about, surely ONE of the first things that pops in to your mind is that somewhere, someone, is wondering where the hell their missing family member is and is going through HELL!! probably still even holding out useless hope...

if anyone i knew did what the fishermen did - let ALONE a partner - i would seriously be questioning if i want them in my life anymore...

i would definitely want to know what was going through their heads and i would EXPECT an answer, that's for sure.

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