Ridiculously pretentious
An incredibly sentimental and overloaded movie.
shareit wAS terribly pretentious, it had alot of potential, but it bacem very clicheé and stupid dialogue.
<I'll buy that for a dollar!>
Pretentious?!? Pfffffft!
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MovieChat Forums > Så som i himmelen (2004) Discussion > Ridiculously pretentious
I could not agree more. The sad part though is not how bad this movie is, its how everyone loved it.
/K
Agree.
Everybody found it charming, but I just fail to see it... And I normally LIKE sentimental movies!
You are SO right! I couldn't agree more. When I saw it, I'd heard so much good about it, so I was truly disappointed. And guess what we sing in my choir? The incredibily dull Gabriellas sång. It makes me crazy! Especially the lyrics, it doesn't make any sence, it's like they've just thrown in some words that fit the music and sounded important. And do you remember Michael Nyqvist using the exact same phrase two times? "Ända sedan jag var en liten pojke, har jag haft en dröm...etc".
Am I too aggressive? *blushing*
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I'm also from Holland and I've seen my share of foreign movies,including some Swedish ones,
when you start to watch you think, what a weird language, but after ten minutes you forget all about that, it even starts to sound familiar. And the movie itself was in no way pretentious or too sentimental, I thought it was just right, not too much of anything. It was better then the last Swedish movie I saw, already a few years back, was *beep*'Amal ('98) I think, allthough I've seen another, but don't remember the title and was on television, about a boy's search of his father, very heavy stuff, that's for sure. I like that now and then, but it has to be honoust and never too sentimental, just right and that's not as easy as it sounds, 'cause it's very difficult to make a dramatic movie and not use too many cliché's and most of all, be aware of false sentiment, it's very easy to go there and very hard to avoid it. But that's what makes these kind of movies special, because they don't use platitudes or false sentiment. The best example I can think of, is Brokeback Mountain, a very difficult subject, but so honoust and never too sentimantal and it leaves you with certain feelings, for me it was almost depressing. Their love in the movie is so deep, but they are both from a man's world, where this 'behaviour' isn't exepted, so they hide their true feelings and let them out once a year, when they get together (their wives think at first that they are fishingbuddies, till the wife confronts him with the facts and even leaves him after a while) When the movie ended, I felt such a feeling of loss and emptyness, I never felt so alone in a long time, I really had to cry, not for them, but for myself. THAT'S WHAT MAKES A MOVIE GREAT, WHEN IT LEAVES YOU WITH THOSE KINDA FEELINGS. But I must say that this Swedish movie isn't thát good, but it is certainly worth your time, as long as you don't mind the language.
You posin' for pictures? Or you gonna pull the trigger? (Crime Story)
Possibly a bit sentimental, but not pretentious at all - not *at* *all* - quite the opposite, no big heroics (as a Hollywood movie would have had), no flippant humour (as Hugh Grant would have had), no political message (as a South African movie would have had), no major melodramatics like a Soapie - just some ordinary people dealing with ordinary human drama. Sure, some of the acting was a bit stilted, but overall I felt drawn into the story, and so did the rest of the audience when I saw it this evening.
"Bad art makes you feel nothing, good art makes you feel emotions you have felt before, but great art makes you feel emotions you have never felt" - I don't know who said that, but by these standards this picture was good, bordering on great.
The first time I can remember an *entire* audience sitting right through the end credits. I thought Gabriella's Song was absolutely wonderful, the person who commented that it's boring or whatever s/he said obviously has different taste in music and should therefore (1) not sing in a choir or (2) go to movies about choirs. It's like Sir Neville Marriner going to a Guns 'n Roses concert and complaining the music was loud and noisy - don't be stupid, don't waste your time, and above all don't waste other peoples' time!
I couldn't agree more. This is not the kind of movie I would usually go to, nor have I ever been to anything like it before.
I myself have seen four things to imply it's a great - no, wonderful - movie. And all of those are just very... local. 1- I cried at the end, the first time I've ever cried in a movie. 2- It's been the only movie I've ever seen where everyone - and this was a full cinema - sat till the end of the credits, in *complete* silence. 3- It's still showing at my local cinema in Sydney, and it premiered 30 November last year (that's almost 6 months). 4- It created a record at the same cinema, being the first film to ever to have an increasing audience for every week of it's 9-week season (of course, it ended up screening longer than this).
To me, I just don't see how it's not a good movie. As previously said, I guess it's just not in the taste of anyone who thought it was anything pretentious.
I am absolutely stunned that some people would think that this film is pretentious.It is anything but,in my oppinion.Here,in Auckland,New Zealand,it played for about 6mths and came back for a lmited period of re-screening.I have seen the film twice and absolutely loved it,and was left crying both times at the end.It was voted film of the year by the local film club that I belong to.
The film has some wonderful themes,among them the idea of music pulling people together,of music opening people's hearts bringing forth honesty and love,and also the importance of being yourself to yourself and others.Music unburdened their fears,hopes and dreams.
All this was done without hollywood melodrama and mawkishness.....good grief spare us!.......no....it was simple,sincere,genuine,direct,and very affecting.
My mother is a musician and thoroughly enjoyed the film.She found the musical aspect of the film a honest portrayal.
As I am writing this,I am speaking to a friend of mine on the phone who has also seen the film,and as I am discussing aspects of the film with him,I am feeling quite emotional,especially about the scene where the conductor realises he loves Lena, and can't wait to tell her
.....IT IS THAT KIND OF FILM......HAVE WE ALL NOT AT SOME TIME RESTRAINED OURSELVES FROM DECLARING OUR LOVE FOR SOMEBODY AND REGRETTED IT.......absolutely!!!
It is a delightful film.A film to be seen again and again,and again......I have it on DVD.
Do go and see it,it is a very special fim.
quote:
I thought Gabriella's Song was absolutely wonderful, the person who commented that it's boring or whatever s/he said obviously has different taste in music and should therefore (1) not sing in a choir or (2) go to movies about choirs. It's like Sir Neville Marriner going to a Guns 'n Roses concert and complaining the music was loud and noisy - don't be stupid, don't waste your time, and above all don't waste other peoples' time!
I've sung in choirs most of my life and currently sing in one at least two nights a week. I did not particularly like the song Gabriellas Saang. It is not representatitive of all choral music so it makes not a whole lot of sense for you to say that people who do not like that one song should not sing in a choir. You may be right about not going to movies about choirs. I find that most choral movies are overly sentimental about choirs and what it means to be in one.
I saw this tonight at a screening in our village hall. We are members of a village choir. I 100% agree with your comment.
shareI saw this movie yesterday at a Film Noir cinema in Hobart (Tasmania, Australia). And I witnessed something that I've never seen before. As the movie finished and the end credits began to roll, not one person in the audience moved. Not one person spoke. Not one person left the cinema. The audience was blown away by this powerful and emotional film. Men and women alike were crying.
But it wasn't sentimentality. It was emotion. There is a difference. Sentimentality can be soppy. Emotion can be anything ranging from happiness to sadness or even anger.
It wasn't overly sentimental.
There is nothing sentimental about violence in any relationship, whether it is bullying schoolmates or abusing a member of your family. There's a Conny and a Stig everywhere.
Yes, it was emotional, but what is wrong with that! What is wrong with having something positive come from something as negative as violence! The movie was about overcoming fear and the negative things in life. It was about living life to the full.
Have any of you ever experienced extreme bullying or relationship violence? I have, and this movie represented it perfectly, without undue sentiment.
g'day Julie, Sophie,
I just saw this tonight at Roseville in Sydney -- is that where you saw it, Sophie ? -- and the cinema was packed. And at the end, no-one moved throughout the whole credits -- the woman working the door came striding through the cinema the second the credits rolled and flung the doors open wide, but not a single person moved. Everyone stayed in their seats until the very end of the credits, and then the whole cinema burst into applause.
It was so uplifting. So I personally don't agree at all with the comments of this movie being pretentious; some of it was a little clumsy in its construction, but I found it very emotionally true, and it quite obviously struck a chord tonight with every person in that crowded cinema.
Oh, and I have to admit: I burst into tears at the end, when the singing started. Not really sure why -- it wasn't out of sentimentality, but maybe simply because I found the sound itself amazingly beautiful. After, as we were all leaving the cinema, a little old lady smiled and handed me a tissue -- she was maybe five foot, and I'm six foot four, about two hundred pounds, and bearded. It must have been a real sight !!
Nice to see Så Som I Himmelen is also much appreciated in Australia!
So 'Ridiculously pretentious', mte-6, come on..? Bofff/ what is wrong with that anyway? -If this feeling meanwhile gets across from Holland (where I live) to Australia, it must be something true or universal about it, n'est pas?
IMO, a very honest and true made movie. I have family in Norway (Oslo + up north), and I recognized much of this "Scandinavian attitude" in this film... ---> any personal feelings, rather not... (sorry to say)
Go see it, great film!
Cheers,
John.
Saw it tonight in Melbourne....am still numb. It was the most wonderful film I have seen in years. Grateful that it was made. Is it based on a book?
It's not based on a novel, but the writer/director, Kay Pollak, wrote a book called No Chance Enounter: Meeting Yourself in Others in 1997, and I think (although I haven't read the book), that a lot of concepts from it are in the film.
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I can't help but think that some of the negative opinion directed to this film, is that the hollywood megaproductions with all their special effects, do dull the senses to boring, ordinary things like real life, and human emotions.
Also, I tend to believe that the nature of this film, and the issues it presents, are targetted so that people relate to one or more of the characters. In my case, I have been a professional musician, and (without suffering a heart attack) I did experience the loss of joy that comes from taking music and making it a career. I took a sabbatical from playing, and subsequently rediscovered the fun of music by getting myself involved in a good community orchestra.
Other people will relate to other characters - the long-hidden desire of the elderly couple, the violent marriage, being overweight, or being in a marriage where the spark has gone.
I thoroughly enjoyed watching this film (Up at the Avoca Beach Picture Theatre - if you're on the Central Coast of NSW, give it a go!) and am quite happy to recommend it to my friends and colleagues.
Cheers,
Ian
corny? at times. sentimental? indeed! bad movie? not at all! even corny flicks can be good movies if they are done with honesty and respect to the audience.
This kind of movies usually aren't my cup of tea but Så som i himmelen is the exception to that rule.
They who believe that the money does everything, end by doing everything for money
I thought it was beautiful.
No-one in the cinema moved or spoke until the curtains closed over the screen.
I haven't seen a movie at the cinemas that's made me that emotional in years.
I kind of want to have see it at home so i can bawl my eyes out and not have to restrain myself!
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Certainly not the marvellous film we were given to expect.
And how is it that there were no police to protect the battered wife.
I found the film unsatisfying and remarkably silly.
I agree that the movie was pretentious, and believe me, good neighbours, it is not because I'm Norwegian (one of the few funny parts of the movie was when Lena told the Norwegian/Swede joke, and attempted to speak Norwegian!)
The movie was so packed with stereotypes it was ridiculous: the depressed man returning to his home town, the young girl who loves everyone, the charming mentally challenged boy, the priest who is so condemning at first, but who might change his ways, the elderly woman who is the moral voice of the village, the abusive husband and his wife who it is clear from the first two minutes will find her true power and leave him... It's like so many "small town"-movies packed into one.
I see that many on this board liked it, good for you. It was amusing at times, but these stereotypes and the simplified portrayal of small-town people and women (Lena as a mother godess archetype, ever so impulsive and emotional...) were just too much to swallow for me.
I also thought the plot was very weak; the conflict with the priest was unclearly motivated and unbelievable. The way everyone in the choir suddently started opening up and confessing various things just seemed odd to me. They should have tightened the narrative and the plot, if anything.
But I have not given up on Swedish film! I saw "*Beep* Åmål" recently, an excellent movie (with at far more realistic portrayal of a small town) which I recommend to everyone.
I find the word "pretentious" rather an odd choice!
I disagree with the OP, and also with the poster immediately above me.
This is a take on village life. And it is indeed not uncommon to have a movie about a person returning home to a place that they have left in unhappy circumstances. One does wonder why he goes there. Can I suggest that it is because, once deprived of his career, and with no family, he has nothing. He needs to begin again. Perhaps it is the memory of the wheatfields that draws him.
For me, the depiction of village life was starkly realistic. I have been there. I have lived there. I have seen the gifted child, the fat child and the child with a disability tormented until their mothers sent them on long bus journeys to different schools. I have seen the woman with missing front teeth and bruises round her throat buying pain-killers in the village shop, and not one person prepared to go to the police about her husband. I have seen the self-righteousness village pastor ruling his family and his flock with intimidation. And I have seen the holier-than-thou village gossip, condemning and criticising, causing trouble wherever it can be caused, and always in the sweetest and most dutiful manner possible. For me, all these characters and their situations rang true.
I particularly like the characterisation of Arne. One can see so "much that is good" in him. It is his blustering determination, more than anything else, that keeps the choir together. But all his life he has bullied people. He is not the fearsome, oversized menace that Conni is, but his bullying and his jokes at the expense of other people cause wide-ranging grief. I love the scene where Holmfrid challenges him. I was thoroughly convinced by both Inger and Siv and their stultified sexual relationship. I loved the scene in which she told him that God did not condemn. Her view was of God the loving Father, while, perhaps, Siv only knew a father who was condemning and critical. I have known a clergyman just like Siv, who never understood the loving nature of God and lived in fear of eternal damnation instead of looking joyfully towards Heaven.
I thought Lena was just right. She was not simply an "Earth Mother" figure. She was a woman who had been hurt and disgraced in a very public way. She had nothing to do but go on putting a brave face on things and continue with her life. As the shop-keeper, she knew, and was known to everyone. She was obliged to be friendly to everyone. And endure the snide conversations about her, that went on behind her back. The autistic Tore and the loving relationship with his sister is perfectly conveyed. I liked the fact that Tore, in typical autistic fashion, reduced emotion to its most basic elements, so that the feelings of everyone became manifest through him and could not be ignored.
As for the people opening up, and saying things that they had never said before... yes, this happens when a lot of individuals who are only aware of their differences, suddenly become bonded by a common cause. Music of itself, can be uplifting and releasing. But these people had shared far more than just going to a concert together. They had done all sorts of inhibition-releasing activities. They had lain on the floor and laughed together. They had learnt to listen to each other. It was because of the depth of their listening that they could then lead every person in the entire assembly of choirs to each find their own voice. I loved that scene. It was so much more powerful and conveyed so much more meaning than if they had simply gone to the eisteddfod and won it.
I was watching a translated version. But it seemed to me that the name, "as it is in Heaven" pertained in part to this notion of everyone having a voice, and all together, by listening to each other, being able to jointly make a glorious sound of praise...
My only disappointment was that I wanted to see more of them singing in church, singing "Ave Verum" or "Jesu Meine Freude", or some such...and they didn't.
"great minds think differently"
I have to disagree although I respect your opinion of this movie. I think the movie contained many different aspects of life to some of us and for that I found it inspiring. The town was never the same after he returned for many different reasons and after watching this movie last night, I can only say that some of us just don't see things the same way. Perhaps this is because we all have different lives and will never see the same because of it. If you get something out of this movie, it's to help as much as you can when people are suffering from domestic violence and that is never helps to keep something form people, always be upfront and tell them, even if they may not like what you're saying. Honesty is the best policy.
I also loved that it was game enough to show the world that religion has many faults and no-one, no matter who you are, is far from perfect. There should be more films highlighting this fact. Religion is extremely damaging to our society.
~Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe~
"I also loved that it was game enough to show the world that religion has many faults and no-one, no matter who you are, is far from perfect. There should be more films highlighting this fact. Religion is extremely damaging to our society."
I don't know where you are coming from, but showing religion in a negative way is very common in movies and literature. A moviemaker doesn't have to be at all game to show Christianity negatively. Because Christianity is a religion of tolerance, Christians do not go around threatening the life of moviemmakers just because they don't like the way that their faith has been presented.
In fact, this movie did not show "Faith" badly. It did show that a religious practice that is founded upon rules rather than the love of God and love of humankind (as taught by Jesus) is destructive. The wife of the Pastor showed a greater understanding of God's love than her husband did, and therefore a greater understanding of Faith.
In fact, if you knew more about Christian teaching, you would have better understood what you were seeing. Much of the movie was about the nature of Christian love. We saw a man who was religious, but self-righteous, brought low because of his lack of understanding of the true nature of love (God's love AND human love). The conductor, who could not express himself in words, was able to express love (both forgiveness and compassion) for the man who had only moments before, had threatened to kill him. The pastor, in turn, tried to express his love for his wife, by his gesture in packing her things and going to the bus. he took a very big step forward from his proud and self-righteous position, when he asked her, in humility, to come back to him. In other words, he was showing true Christian love, by humbling himself.
Within Christianity, religious organisations can be badly run, self-serving and corrupt, like any other organisations. It has to do with the nature of humanity, not the faith itself.
Saying that religion is extremely damaging to our society seems quite ridiculous to me. If you are in Europe, the Americas, Australia or NZ, then the laws of the society that you live in are all based on Christianity. The concept in law that you are innocent, unless proven guilty is a Christian concept. Are you suggesting that we should abandon it?
"great minds think differently"
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I enjoyed this movie, but I don't think that it was academy award stuff either.
"great minds think differently"
'Mandyjam'
I don't know where you are coming from...
In fact, if you knew more about Christian teaching, you would have better understood what you were seeing...
Saying that religion is extremely damaging to our society seems quite ridiculous to me...
Are you suggesting that we should abandon it?...
1. Wouldn't expect you to.
2. How do you know how much I know about Christian teaching? Or is it because you deem yourself by your Christian powers to know more than me? I think you are the one who should get your head out of the sand and learn a little about the real world!!
3. Abandoning you sounds good!
Now you can climb back on your moral high-horse and preach to someone who cares!
~Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and Im not sure about the the universe~ share
The movie was so packed with stereotypes it was ridiculous: the depressed man returning to his home town, the young girl who loves everyone, the charming mentally challenged boy, the priest who is so condemning at first, but who might change his ways, the elderly woman who is the moral voice of the village, the abusive husband and his wife who it is clear from the first two minutes will find her true power and leave him... It's like so many "small town"-movies packed into one.
I lóve this comment. Because it makes my imagination run wild!
"How could the director have made the movie for this poster to like it?"
The ideal movie for this person:
featuring
- depressed man does nót return to his hometown, but stays depressed in the big city (THE END?)
- young girl doesn't love everyone, but doesn't hate everyone either, much like everyone else in the world (INTERESTING!)
- mentally challenged boy is not so charming. In fact, it's Leatherface from the Texas Chainsaw Massacre! (WHOAAAH!)
- the priest who is condemning at first, stays condemning throughout the whole movie! (AND HE'LL BE IN THE SEQUEL; 'CONDEMNING WITH A VENGEANCE!')
- the elderly woman who is not the moral voice of the town. In fact, she's just senile and nobody cares about her, much like the real world (INTERESTING!)
- a wife that does not leave the abusive husband, but gets beaten and beaten and cries and gets beaten and beaten and cries and (THIS MOVIE WILL BE GREAT STUFF!)
Make no mistake, I respect everyone's opinion. I'm just trying to think of what kind of movies the people dó like, when they say 'As it is in Heaven' is 'clichéd and predictable and therefore I don't like it'*
I for one, thought it was somewhat clichéd, and still wept like a schoolgirl at the end. And mind you. I was nót a schoolgirl at the time.
*Maybe http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388318/ which is about the most depressing movie I have ever seen. share
Only a pretentious, loveless, frustrated, cynic would call this movie "Ridiculously pretentious".
And it takes one to recognize one.
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