MovieChat Forums > Sud pralad (2004) Discussion > Love or Lust between the two?

Love or Lust between the two?


Having read all the reviews in IMDB, Amazon and MRQE, I am shy to post a long negative review so let me just leave a message on the board. I am an Asian, a gay. I am a film buff and I look forward to seeing Tropical Malady but was extremely bored by the inadequacies and amateurishness of the film.

I too have been have in the position of the soldier Keng, wanting to fall in love with the country boy Tong, hoping to win his affection in a simple and pure manner. But this could have been just my lust wanting to "get into his pants", so to say, as he seems to be straight and hard to get. I have not really planned a way for our future co-existence, our co-habitation, regardless of what people say that the Asian relatives seem to be "acceptive" of the lovers. The country boy Tong, who is not gay, would become a husband and a father in another five or ten years. It is indeed going to turn out to be unrequited love.

Tong's response to Keng's gay advances is actually very typical in Asia - a slightly amused feeling, tickled, abashed, and being good-natured, he would most likely acquiesce to Keng's request for physical contact to some degree - unlike the fear, anger, and retaliation we see in Western culture when a straight is cruised by a gay. But essentially, Tong is just playing along with Keng, until he is ready for heterosexual commitment.

The second part of the movie is very slow and contrived. I do not really want to see a tame South China tiger of the zoo sunstituting for a real jungle tiger of the Indochina peninsula. All that animal tracking and paw prints are very laughable. The editing here is really terrible, and the usage of on-screen text to tell us what Keng is feeling really does show up the imagery's inadequacies. The second part of the movie is really wasted, when we wanted to see more development of the relationship between the two protagonists.

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Hi there, i'd like to say that i've another point of view, as your saying above : <<<<I too have been have in the position of the soldier Keng, wanting to fall in love with the country boy Tong, hoping to win his affection in a simple and pure manner. But this could have been just my lust wanting to &amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;get into his pants&amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;, so to say, as he seems to be straight and hard to get. I have not really planned a way for our future co-existence, our co-habitation, regardless of what people say that the Asian relatives seem to be &amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;acceptive&amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; of the lovers>>>


I'm an asian as well. But in my point of view, the first part of the story is "surreal". True, that in Asia, homosexuality is quite tolerated but not at that point as showing in the first part of story :


(SPOILERS)

The scene of the two protagonists resting in a pavilion. Keng is lying on Tong's lap. A lady comes, smiling and greeting them as the scene of two men acting all lovey-dovey, is the most natural thing in the world. It's too UNREAL to me. Already in Asia, the lovey-dovey things between girls-boys in public are not that much appreciated by the senile, but why all the people in the story(Tong's family, Keng's soldiers friends, the lady et cetara) see the love between those two as something so natural ?

(End of SPOILERS)


That's why i'm not agreed with you about the film being amateurish; it's no point to be interested if it's Love or Lust, since the story we see is not real anyway. For me, it's just the director's intention to make the first part very UTOPIAN, just like some memories one chose to remember : everything is beautiful, everyone is smiling, the love for someone the same sex is not unrequited, and even accepted by the others.

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I just watched this film, which I missed in its general release, on Dvd. And by the way I am not Asian, although I am gay.
Here is my take on the film, after some time for deliberation. Admitedly, my immediate reaction at the end was confusion and annoyance that the central thread of the narrative seemed to get lost somewhere along the way.

The major clue to me (note the original title) lies in the opening text about the beast WITHIN EACH OF US that we need to 'tame' in order to be integrated into the human family and what you might call ones proper destiny. In the Soldier's case it seems that this Beast is his innate homosexuality, or at least his deep, sensual, yet in a sense delicate, attraction, bordering on love, to the peasant boy. This attraction rises to it highest tide immediately preceding the highly symbolic, quasi-mystical, extended episode in the jungle (their mutual kissing of each other's hands). At this point the peasant is an equal partner, if not the aggressor, in the mating dance that has begun. FORGET his being shy or straight.

So the Soldier enters the forest (often a symbol for the UNCONSCIOUS in literature and myth) on something not unlike a Hero's Quest to subdue this inner demon or Beast. He has his gun with him, food, etc. He knows that the Beast is elusive, cleverly hidden, even disguised, and formidable.They alternately track each other and both physically and spiritually wrestle with each other. Survival itself is at stake. One or the other must succumb.

BUT at the end the Soldier offers himself to the Beast (i.e., his HOMOSEXUALITY, or more specifically his love for the peasant boy). He indeed exorcizes demons, but not the ones we had been led to believe that he would--quite the opposite: the cultural/tribal/familial/religious rules socialized into him over many years that he now sees as inherently false or at least not applicable to him These are precisely the source of his deepseated doubts and fears). At last he can integrate ALL the parts of his Identitiy/Consciousness into a unified whole. He is now ready to go BACK to the world, announce his love to the boy, and commit himself to some kind of meaningful relationship. In hindsight the final moments of the film visualize in exquisite detail the unique human passage, that hopefully we have all experienced or will experience at least once, when one totally accepts the engulfing madness, the metamorphic power, the sacramental blessing, the human miraculousness of love.

In absolute cinematic terms, in order to better understand the pacing, silences, and contour and landscape of the interior struggle with ones unseen but powerful and most palpable demons that dominates the final sequences of this film, see the recent masterpiece "Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter...and Spring". These sequences cannot be rushed, nor these lanndscapes glossed over hastily, without sacrificing or at lease seriously compromising their existential authenticity. Not to mention the combined terror and awe that we experience when confronting them.

For me this film is a kind of meditation or poem on the mystery of love, specifically in this case
male/male love, and is to be cherished as such. I fear that we in the West are too literal in our coming to terms with such films. The cardinal rule is always in Art TO ENTER THE REALM OF THE ARTIST OR ARTWORK, not to force him/her or it to conform to ones own experience, biases, preconceptions and. experiential limitations. How can we grow otherwise, or gain wisdom!! And Art is one of the Master Teachers that life has given us. If possible, anesthetize the left brain, that linear part of us that prefers judging, analyzing and organizing experience over experience itself, before sitting down to view a film.






Film is such an amazing journey into other people heads, and other wondrous impossible places.

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In hindsight the final moments of the film visualize in exquisite detail the unique human passage, that hopefully we have all experienced or will experience at least once, when one totally accepts the engulfing madness, the metamorphic power, the sacramental blessing, the human miraculousness of love.
That is beautiful, simply beautiful. Now why can't I write like that.

"All coming to presence...keeps itself concealed to the last" - Martin Heidegger

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Poetry - but why not just show the real thing and continue part 1?

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Because a traditional romance wouldn't be nearly as powerful and spellbinding. Without the sensory, hypnotizing experience offered by the second half, the film also loses its thematic complexity and depth.

Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.

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It seems to be a matter of preference.

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Like all art, sure it is. But there's no denying that a more traditional approach would have made this film less of a standout.

Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.

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What an excellent review:)

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Amaturish or not the movie was amazing and beautiful and the story was told well

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Excellent post.

Where's my elephant?

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This is the best post I've ever read on IMDb.

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[deleted]

He is now ready to go BACK to the world
Exactly, and this evident in the tiger icon the camera glides over around the 1:48 time mark, near the very end. A golden tiger kneeling in a crested branch, perched to prance, looking down upon a man kneeling in adoration, supplication, repentance, or what you will, an aureate glow haloing his head, a breath of golden rope emanating from the tiger's umbilically connected to the supplicant's halo, nourishment streaming from the tiger to man. The film dialogue at this moment - I give you my spirit, my flesh...and my memories.

Tiger Tong's dialogue, leading up to and during the camera gliding over the icon - Once I've devoured your soul, we are neither animal nor human. Stop breathing. I miss you...soldier...Monster...I give you my spirit, my flesh...and my memories. Every drop of my blood sings our song. A song of happiness.

The monkey chirped/clucked - kill him to free him from the ghost world, or let him devour you, and enter his world

Or let him devour you, and enter his world.

Keng lifting up his burning head (deepseated doubts and fears) to th gracious light of Tiger Tong, like the man in the icon, allowing himself to be devoured and nourished by the spirit and flesh and memories of the Tiger/Tong, devoured and nourished by the metamorphic power, the sacramental blessing, the human miraculousness of love, Keng healed and reborn and renewed, ALL the parts of his Identitiy/Consciousness into a unified whole., prepared to return to the real world.

The oriental icon, a collective imagery of mythology and folklore that resonates across all cultures, introduced and lingered on for less than a minute, encapsulating the crux of Keng's transformational journey through the intoxicating, raw, jungle of love, of life, of his psyche.

An icon proving how important it is for humankind to rediscover the images, values, myths, folklore, religious practises, philosophies, etc, comprising the history of man's past, diving rod images that help guide man through the tangled confusion of a modern life increasingly isolated and severed from its "mystical" past.

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The cardinal rule is always in Art TO ENTER THE REALM OF THE ARTIST OR ARTWORK
I concur completely. The director's earnestness in providing a more conventional framework for the second half of the film via subtitles and title cards to explain the allegory fueling the visual feast create an air of mystery and intrigue, undoubtedly. But what makes this film such a successful, potent experiment is the thematic connection between the two halves. Keng is wrestling (quite literally, in some scenes) with the doubts and fears that begin to plague him after Tong finally reciprocates his romantic advances. It's about the fear of failure and rejection, the fear of submitting yourself to another, the fear of being too vulnerable, the fear of being hurt. The film's climax sees Keng accepting the price for, as you put it, that metamorphic power, the human miraculousness of love. A sincere and optimistic ending, especially taking into account that bleak opening.

Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.

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Well, I've experienced such similar responses to same-sex relationships and behaviour between same-sex partners such as the scene in the pavilion (where the lady comes to greet them) by people of all ages in the Northeast of Thailand, where I think the film is set, that the first part of the film seems quite realistic to me.

One Father's Day, for example, when we went to see my Thai partner's elderly farmer parents in their village, I was included in a ceremony where his father blessed his sons and their partners, and afterwards he joined my partner's hand and mine together, held them in his hands and smiled as he murmured over them. His mother always welcomes me warmly, and when we stay overnight, his sister makes up a bed for the two of us to share.

I have also had the experience of a Thai partner lying with his head in my lap when we were in the company of a family in a village upcountry. Onthat occasion, we stayed overnight with my lover's older brother in the married officers' quarters on an army base. My lover and I and his gay friend were put to bed together in the couple's double bed.

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That's nice to hear! One of the most beautiful scenes in the film is at the pavilian, when the lady comes to sell them flowers and tells them a parable about greed. She never bothers that Keng's head is in Tong's lap, that's just not an issue.

I could go on and on about how this kind of encounter could take place in the US, and one possibility is exactly like that in "Tropical Malady." But another example is given us in the truly horrible film "Brokeback Mountain."

At any rate, what I think is that Keng's love for Tong is so strong that he is willing to give up his ontological individuality in order to be with Tong. And the only way Tong could be with Keng is if he were someone or something else -- in this case a half human / half wild animal. In that form, Tong needs Keng as much as Keng needs Tong, 'cos clearly Tong is very tormented in this animal form, and everything the monkey and Tong as the tiger say points to this how much Tong now needs Keng. What I don't know is whether this is all a dream on Keng's part, that they are now apart and he dreams of a way they can be together. (This is all complicated by what happens in the cave, when Tong wants to go further and Keng pulls back, and then Tong plays with Keng, and Keng is self-conscious with the lady present.)

"Tropical Malady" is beautiful and wondrous and mysterious and sad, and the scene with the cow just about had me in tears.

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The film left me confused - not unlike an experience of looking at some types of modern art and other modern Asian art films, like "Ashes of Time" or "Welcome Back To The Dragon Inn," which also feature slow pacing and difficult to piece together narrative. To a certain extent I agree with all of the previous posters -- part of me thought it was a beautiful symbolic artistic rendering and part of me was annoyed by trying to figure out what was going on and bored by the pace of the second half.

I started to re-watch the movie with the director's commentary in the hope of getting a better understanding. As far as I watched it, it wasn't terribly illuminating. One thing of note, however -- the interviewer asks about the use of the ice factory and the director responds that he's not sure, but that it was so hot during filming that the ice factory provided contrast. Oddly enough, later the same day I watched John Woo's, "Hard Contact," an older movie which is set in Thailand and features similar scenes of ice being cut and shaped. "Hard Contact" features an over the top, stereotypically gay villain opposite Chow Yun Fat as the hero. I found myself wondering if there had been any conscious or unconscious incorporation of and response to Woo's imagery. It also contained a scene of a long fluorescent tube being lit in darkness.

All in all, I'm still not sure what to think of Tropical Malady.

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i truly feel that Tong is not 100% homosexual, rather he is either bisexual or curious (or lonely), and don't feel his connection is true love (not saying that u cant be bi/curious and be in true love, but in this instance i dont feel so). early in the movie he is clearly seen smiling flirtaciously with a beautiful young woman on the bus, before he is interrupted by Keng driving by. I really feel he is more love-starved than anything else, and willing to accept any sort of attention. I fully agree with lovemedo-1 here, i think tong is just testing the limits of his own comfort level
That said I'd like to discuss some of the scenes mentioned and offer my own take. The scene with Keng laying his head on the lap of Tong and the old lady offering to sell them flowers i feel is mis-understood. I don't believe she thinks they are homosexuals, just two guys enjoying the afternoon. I base this on my own experience in SE Asia. I remember one day lying at a friends house watching tv with a large group of people, and resting my head next to the lap of a friend. the friend then began to stroke my hair, and then stroke my arm. While this did not "bother" me, I distinctly remember feeling how in America this would be classified as taboo for heterosexuals (i am one and i assume my friend is too); seeing me and my friend as such would be similar to seeing Tong and Keng lying there. And many signs we would consider as being openly gay in our culture would be considered very natural and normal between close friends in that part of the world; Tong gripping Keng tightly as they rode through the small town at night via motorbike, or even the open touching of one another in public; these are just part of the SE Asian culture.

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