Possible Plot Hole??


In the movie Stuart plan is to cash in his check, get the money and then repeat the process. Since he will be getting the same bills from the teller, wouldn't he end up with bills with the identical serial numbers?

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Yeah he would, I thought about that too. He could easily depostit these in an atomatic teller. He could probably even deposit them with a human teller. No one would notice the matching serials for a long time, if ever. The bank wouldn't be missing any money, so there'd be no reason to investigate. Essentially, he's doing 4th dimentional counterfitting.

Here's a thought, what happens if you used the PDA while barefoot?

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> what happens if you used the PDA while barefoot? <

I assume you're referring to the fact that his bare feet would be "touching" the ground. And supposedly anything you are "touching" should travel back with you.

I don't think that is the definition of "touching" ... as in, it required your skin to make contact with an object. We don't see somebody with socks and shoes losing their shoes when they travel (as the skin on your feet don't touch your shoes if you're wearing socks). Or somebody wearing a long sleeve shirt and a jacket and tie doesn't loose the jacket and tie (even though they are not touching your skin). Or if you're carrying a bag full of money, then time travel would result in you having an empty bag (as your skin is not touching the contents of the bag).

So, no, the logic of the film doesn't address what "touching" means. It also doesn't address why some objects you are touching get duplicated, but people don't. Or why the laptop he borrowed didn't come back with him, but the pilot's uniform did.

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<<I don't think that is the definition of "touching" ... as in, it required your skin to make contact with an object.>>

I never really got the definition either. Technically, for someone wearing shoes, would only an infinitely thin layer of the shoe travel back... or the entire thing? How is an entire "thing" defined to this machine? Who knows, but I overlooked the plotholes because the movie wasn't *that* bad for a low-budget movie.

I was more bugged by the police procedure and the dumbness of the crooks as they were escaping by weaving through traffic in the most obvious getaway possible.

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No, he wouldn't be getting the same bills. From the theory of time-travel portrayed in the film, objects in their possession were moved -- not duplicated -- including the time-traveler; the bills would disappear from her cash drawer, and he would receive other, unique bills.

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I guess I missed that.

In that case, he's screwed over the girl he likes, because her drawer will be $2000 short. (Or $4000? I know he got at least twice the money he should have, but at the end of the film he ended up right back at the count out, so that's 3 times.) I used to be a bank teller, and when your drawer is $20 short, bad things start to happen and you have to go back and look at every transaction. At $2000 or $4000 short, the police would be involed and no matter what, she would lose her job.

THough they will be very puzzled when reviewing the security tapes to see Astin quick change into a Pilot's uniform. THey will probably conclude that the tape was tampered with and it was an inside job going beyond a single teller. Many people will lose their jobs for this.

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You guys are all just speculating. They never did explain if it duplicates it or not, just like they didn't explain much of anything. This is how I speculate they were thinking, "We'll just do whatever we want, who cares if it doesn't make sense, we'll advertise that lord of the rings Sean Aston is in it!"

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logical conjecture! not speculation :)

The film was entertaining, but back to the original thread topic: plot hole; i'd say the key plot hole was people retaining their memories when they shouldn't have. Besides that, everything else fits in if you reason through it... with a few added assumptions of course.

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I liked it, in general, and didn't notice anyone remembering things when they shouldn't. But the inverted frames (what do you call it, film people?) that happened several times was freaking me out (Bus door on left side). Was this intentional, sort of an inside out affect?

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Um, way too many holes.

1. How does being 10,000 feet in the air cause the radio tower on the ground to bypass the 10 minute mark? The device was simply a remote control.

2. Yeah, why don't they just shut the tower down instead of chasing after him?

3. I really hate it when they decide things like "everything you touch goes with you". You're touching everything, think about it.

4. At the end when they go back to the beginning, you see the shake being thrown on him and him shot outside of the bus. Those timelines were erased, very lazy.

I hope a lot of people get fired for this piece of garbage.

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Your Answers:

1 The height enables uncut acces to more towers, resulting in more energy to the device, which in turn enbales him to bypass the 10min window,imposed by ground access problems.

2 Even if they shut down broadcast towers, the device could supposedly use other sources of power, like he mentioned in the intro, garage door openers, TV remotes, etc.

3 That is true.

4 Yes,they were erased, because the past before them was changed, so they never came to be.

5 In my opinion, this movie was a great one, I enjoyed (nearly) every moment of it.

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"I really hate it when they decide things like "everything you touch goes with you". You're touching everything, think about it."

Oh yes, so true. Not to mention, that we pretty much touch everything at least by chance => air molecules. So even jumping up wouldn't help, apart from it being extremely stupid a thing to do in a bank... ;-) Why would I think so? I can already hear some of You saying "but the time machine captures one moment of time since it's become active". Well... not quite. If we consider the machine's power cycle, it'd require a few moments to 'catch on' and examine the timeframe before using it. It's pretty much impossible to make a machine that'd catch a timeframe of infinitely small size (exactly as impossible as drawing a "dot" of an infinitely immeasurable diameter in mathematics - those brainiacs haven't figured that one out yet :P), and I do believe that in such a case we'd have a timeframe that's pretty consistently encompasssing the entire world... But I'd like to speculate / elaborate a bit further on the topic... ;-)

There are several time travel theories. One of them implies that once the device was set, everything - including the person/group willing to go back in time - would be reset to that time. No memories, nothing. This would seem to be the most plausible outcome, but it would keep us in a loop. More on that in a moment.

Another one tells us that whatever we remember goes back with us. Retaining whatever we were touching is simply an extension of this idea, but an illogical one. While it might be theoretically possible to 'remember', it wouldn't be so in the case of 'hold'/'touch'. ;-) Unless, of course, we're already talking about moving the traveller outside space-time transcontinuum, which would imply that we're already changing future by simply attempting the travel. That has many implications... ;-)

But tell me - how does one future result from the previous one? Backward time travel does seem like an easy topic, but it's also very, very dodgy. For example, it would be logical to assume that the 'past' we're experiencing after the travel is a sort of a loop that extends to the future, therefore it would be crucial for our 'original' to still make the travel in the first place (otherwise the continuum would be broken, and thus we come to the first possible inconsistency [further referred to as time paradoxes or simply paradoxes]).

The second one comes to mind a few lines back - duplicates and originals. If we see time-space as a continuum, as with each of those we can fold it in loops, however we would NEVER be 'coming back' to any place in time, if we were going to retain our memories, experiences and (possibly?) things we carry. Each time You fold a piece of wire or rope, You end up having TWO pieces of the same rope closely together - You don't end up 'merging' them with each other. Ergo - we would have a duplicate of our traveller, and one that shouldn't be seen by his original. This is imperative, since the outcome of the meeting might somehow change the should-be 'safe' future event of the original making the time travel, thus making the 'returned' traveller 'vanish' (he never got there on that time, it all never happened etc.), which would leave us with that meeting not happening, which would make it happen... We're in a loop, and that's the second paradox we encounter.

The third paradox is closely related to technical aspects of the time machine. Unless You fold the time-space continuum like a string, You would have to have some sort of a 'time wave' (name it accordingly) extending into the past in order to place our traveller back there. Third paradox - once we've travelled the smallest slice back from the moment the machine was activated, it wouldn't have been activated, so we're a split second before we push the button, and we push it... We're, once again, in a time-loop extending into infinity (or, more like, lasting a split second in both directions) for us. Not merry. ;-) Of course, if the device is supposed to break the continuum and act upon one specific place in time, we wouldn't be 'rewinding' time like a tape, we'd be folding it - and we're back to the 'duplicate / original' theory again, which is clearly NOT the case in the movie. ;-)

There's another time-travel movie, in which the traveller goes inot the future, for a change. I believe a lot of You have seen it (can't remember the title, though). It's a good movie, but it has a major flaw. Moving forward within the time-space continuum would require a time dilation device instead of a time travel device. In such a state, we'd appear to the outside world as if we were literally not moving for generations. Someone would've moves us eventually. And I don't believe natural disasters wouldn't harm us... ;-) There's no place on this Earth that I know of that would be left alone for 100 years, not to mention a few millenia... ;-P And if we decided to build a time travel device that would operate outside time-space instead, the effects would've been quite different from those depicted on the screen. ;-) There. ;-P


All that aside, I'd like to propose a nice time travel movie to see - "Primer" ( reffer to => http://imdb.com/title/tt0390384/ ). The movie, despite it being low-budget, tries to address quite a few time paradoxes we usualy encounter in poorly made flicks on the topic. Even though the camera man isn't well trained (his shadow can be seen in a few shots), the storyline is rather well thought-out, for a change. It may not be the best choice for those seeking easy action, as there isn't much action in the movie anyway. It does, however, ask a few valid questions, and even answers some. A couple of valid points are made, and by the end of the movie, they still stand. Weird, huh? :-> I must say that I was a bit skeptical at first, but when I chewed on... The movie isn't too easy (and that's my way of saying that You need to put at least SOME brains to "get" it) and it wouldn't be bad to blow the dust off of Your brain's lobes (especialy the ones holding information in regard to physics). In today's movie industry, it's a rare pearl. I mean, someone actually sat down, thought the idea over for a change, and came up with a pretty consistent plot. Well worth watching; I seriously doubt many people will complain about two hours taken from their bios they'd like returned...


Best regards to intelligent, THINKING people.
Egon_Freeman


PS.
Please excuse my grammar mistakes. English isn't my native language (I'm Polish) and I doubt that I shall ever get in terms with Your tenses' construction... even though I try hard to. ;-)

PS. 2
It's not intelligence that makes the difference, but how it's used. Also, for anyone wishing to contact me, feel free to write to egon [at] eter [dot] sytes [dot] net.

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I really hate it when they decide things like "everything you touch goes with you". You're touching everything, think about it.


It was just a matter of convenience. If they didn't decide this, there would be a lot of nudity in this movie.



Too much, too soon, too long, too strong, too many,
to fix.

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Heres a thing too (I just saw this movie a couple nights ago) If being higher up meant more power from the towers, then where did all the extra power come from when the plane was nose first in the side of a mountain? No longer higher, and certainly the mountain would be an impediment to getting any signal, let alone one that strong. Did I miss a tower on top of that particular mountain?

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I didn't think about your theory, but probably he would get the same bills. By touching, he could keep an object from a time line while it was rewinded/erased. Otherwise, those pilots would end up naked. :)

Anyway, what would happen if someone uses the device barefoot? LOL

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Yes, I disagree with spammehard. Items you're touching or wearing do seem to be duplicated (which is why he was doing this at the bank). So yes, he would have ended up with duplicate serial numbers. Although that is unlikely every to cause a problem for him. (Who checks serial numbers?)

However, this is not a "plot hole". A plot hole is two events that happen in the movie that are logically inconsistent.

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if he touches someone and goes back they go back with him, they aren't duplicated. If he touches money and goes back the money is duplicated when technically it should appear back where it started or disappear from where it started, not duplicated. It makes no sense.

"sir, sir, i gotta check and see if you've soiled yourself, I'll get to you in a moment, sir!"

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