MovieChat Forums > Kisses and Caroms (2006) Discussion > comments and questions for VinceRocca

comments and questions for VinceRocca


hey vince i saw your film "american pool" awhile back, at the time i thought it was abit so-so i didnt like all the clerks references....well actually i still dont i think when i saw silent bob-ish girl it started to get abit "you like kevin smith, i get it" plus that diologue and the use of her didnt really do any think for the story. where as the black jesus diologue was very natural and held its own with anything kevin himself or tarantino would write.

now as i said i wasnt overly that impress with the first watch, but that said the first time i watched clerks i thought it was the biggest piece of *beep* i had ever seen and turned it off less than 20 mintues in. so i have given it afew months and i have seen it again and i have to say with no *beep* i liked it alot more, not mindblowing better, but i fell i got my moneys worth. and i think i know why

firstly you movie is called american pool in australia, and really i think its a double edged sword. if you look at the cover alone it gives the impression that its part of the america pie franchise, so your movie has to deliver. but at the same time without doing anything the average guy sees your movie on the rack with america pool in red font on the cover with a hot body in the background the automatic association makes people atleast interested enough to pick it up and look at the box, which is a hugh plus.

i honestly think marketing wise AMERICAN POOL would have been a more profitable title, but from the artistic view Kisses and Caroms was the better title because it can only be view as your own.

ok now for my question...i have 2, one how the hell did you pull the movie together in 5days thats crazy the fact you had F-all of a budget only ads to my shock, oh and in that comment that some guy made blasting you film saying it was probly made with tons of money, well the fact he said that was a complement. ok so he thought your movie was *beep* atleast he thought it was done well enought to be a expencive piece of *beep* lol

and 2nd, how the f-ing hell did you manage to get such a hot cast of girls, in all honesty this is a indy flick, a good one but with a first time director/writer no less. yer, sure its a good script but with a budget lower then what my first car cost i just cant believe you managed to pull not just one hot girl, but one hot girl and one smoking hot girl

finally, i have my advice, more suttle references, its better if its suttle cause just like when kevin drops something about a old storyline in, its normally really just filler tall, but to people that know him movies its means alot more cause we know what the characters are talking about. keep your writing style. you can write funny *beep* on your own so you should cast your own shadow rather then stand in kevins. your good in your own right

reply

"black jesus diologue was very natural and held its own with anything kevin himself or tarantino would write."
Way to butter me up, I like you already.

"if you look at the cover alone it gives the impression that its part of the america pie franchise"
Their doing, not mine. I wanted to keep it "Kisses And Caroms" They wanted to change it. They asked me for a list of alternative titles, I spat out "American Pool" so it could be at the beginning of the new release section and get filed next to American Pie. They and apparently Video Ezy loved it.

On a side note when I told Kevin Smith about the re-title, he liked it.

"one how the hell did you pull the movie together in 5days"
Time for me to promote. I'm finishing up a book that has all the gory details in it, so look out for that in 2008.

Shooting in 5 days was first due to a script that is mainly one location. I wrote Kisses And Caroms with Robert Rodriguez advice in mind, "Write with what you have" I had access to the billiard store. Then taking a page from Hitchcock's career, "shoot in one location." This is what Kevin did with Clerks and why Kisses feels similar.

Next we had months of preproduction. This is where most indies fail. They shoot first, ask questions later. We planned everything. Assembled our production boards and labored over them. Hired a cast that could remember their lines and shot with two cameras. The two cameras enabled us to shoot a Medium and a Close up at the same time and keep them in perfect sync so they matched in editing.

In those 5 days we had one 14 hour day, the rest were under 12. We had craft service, and meals from Outback Steak house and Marconi Grill. We also had an air conditioned trailer on set to keep the cast cool.

Despite the low budget, and quick shooting, we made sure people were conformable. Except for me, I didn't sleep, shower, or have sex which might be tied to the shower. I also got a rash in my nether regions. Had we shot 6 days I would have died, but then we probably have enough footage for a sequel.

"how the f-ing hell did you manage to get such a hot cast of girls"
We auditioned! And paid! We got thousands of head shots and saw hundreds of auditions. There is no lack of beauties in So Cal. However the average indie is made in a hurry. They take anyone willing to work for free.

When I auditioned, I looked for someone who looked the part, acted the part, and was someone I could be friends with.

One girl had knocked my socks off, but she was a pain and I wasn't going to have a bad apple on set. Another girl had an awesome reading, but I wouldn't date her if I was blind. We also saw plenty of SLAMMING hot girls, but they thought acting was talking.

"your good in your own right"
Thanks.

reply

well your welcome, i think one downfall of the dvd was the lack of a audio on it by you, the making of the movie in itself sounds really interesting. i didnt know what it cost or how fast you made it till after i saw it and looked it up on here. even though i dont ever plan to make a film i think there is always going to be someone out there that wants to but doesnt have the first clue at what they are doing, or like me and just interested. i think the reason smith and tarantino are held up so high is there back storys are just as interesting as there films are. neather went to film school they just took short courses and kevin kept the rest for start up money, like you.
im really into indy flicks like 2:37, clerks, kenny, gabriel, saw, wolf creek. i think its more interesting when people such as yourself dont have the option of just throwing money at a problem. stuff like getting the music for the movie, things you came up with onset handy hints, you convos with kevin about the movie, how stuff after the film works like trying to get it run in festivals, working out how to get it released, working with distributors and stuff people should lookout for if they are trying to get there foot in the door. it will more then likly be in your book but it would have been good as a dvd extra-you could have just gone into stuff in less detail

well i can tell you i dont think i would have rented it with the title Kisses And Caroms so the title change worked. P.S i loved the dreamworks rip off lol and the shot of Nicole Rayburn looking like she was getting pummed from behind, i pissed myself laughing with that shot.

reply

"one downfall of the dvd was the lack of a audio on it by you"
The US version has 2 commentary tracks. One cast, one filmmaker, I partake in both. I sent the Aussie's both of them, but I guess they didn't use 'em? I also supplied 3 behind the scenes bits, a photo gallery and a short film.

I have an American Pool DVD, but I haven't been able to watch it because it is Region 4. I need to locate a Region free player.

Tell me, what is on the disc?

"shot of Nicole Rayburn looking like she was getting pummed from behind, i pissed myself laughing with that shot."
Wish I could take the credit for that shot, but that is the genius of our DP Alfonso Aguilar.

reply

Best scene in the movie is the when the unemployment guy walks in, that whole scene got me.

reply

It's one of my favorite bits, although it is part of the 12 page scene that was tough to shoot. That is is so good because of Tom Ayers. He is such a funny guy. FYI, he's married to the Blond, Nicole Rayburn.

reply

What!? really? Congratulations to that guy!

reply

its chalker1 im on my bros computer

reply

hey sorry it took so long i was moving house and i couldnt find a box of my dvds well 2 boxes and seen that i have near 400 its *beep* crazy to notice 80 dvd i found them so im happy i can now enjoy day watch and endless futurama.

back to your question the dvd has nothing just the movie chapter select and the trailer. yer i have the directors cut dvd copy, i cant seem to find it in any retail stores in sydney so i just rented out the copy and then said my car got broken into and asked them what the damage was to replace it, all in all cost me like 21.95. ha ha ha now i dont want to brag but thats what you call a die hard fan, and they replaced the copy so it all worked out in the end

oh just saw this movie funny as *beep* thing called "waiting" it has ryan reynolds and justin long in it. that *beep* is shenaniganz. i think this is actully a better cross between clerks and waiting then with american pie.

ok now i have a question you made this movie a straight to dvd movie and i get that, this is what i dont get, you no how they have box office taking i know you dont see all that money the cinema takes a cut or others must take a cut. but what are the costs of putting it up on the screen do you have to pay like a set fee like $500 a screen to have it up because if it was free and they just took a cut there would be nothing 2 lost from having it up on the screen cause its money you wouldnt have had. i know if this was going to hit the screens you would have only have it run on short release. what im asking basically is what are all the costs and how do you balance out if its worth the risk, because i no after that paris hilton flick bombed on 110 screens that would have been better to be a stright to dvd movie cause the costs of that stuff up would have hurt them.

reply

"i just rented out the copy and then said my car got broken into and asked them what the damage was to replace it, all in all cost me like 21.95. ha ha ha now i dont want to brag but thats what you call a die hard fan, and they replaced the copy so it all worked out in the end"

Wow that really is die hard. I'll tell you what, visit http://www.kissesandcaroms.com/MOVIE/contact/ and send me your address, I'll mail you a US copy. It has all the bonus on it. It is region 1 though.

"what im asking basically is what are all the costs and how do you balance out if its worth the risk"
A 35mm print costs around $3000.00, so that would be the cost per theater, then you split the tickets with the theater owner. Some theaters offer digital and the cost to supply that could be nothing. Still the biggest cost is advertising. Often a movies advertising budget exceeds its production budget.

reply

As far as balancing the risk? If you can afford the advertising budget, or you can find an investor (studio) who can afford it, then you take the risk.

reply

hey buddy im back, thanks for the offer for the free movie but i feel cheap. but i have a few more question for you that only you or kevin smith could answer, and seeing i dont know him i think i will ask you.

im just starting to write my first script/story. i have the setting and the dialogue is going well and i have "what i think is alot of stuff" but i have no idea how much i actually have. is there like a rule of thumb or should i read it out just as i want it to be acted and time it to get at idea?

as i said i have the dialogue and i have the location and im even writing what i know but im having a problem with the timing of the film, your film was set to take place over just one day but mine needs to take place in a video store over atleast a great deal longer cause like a month or so. the problem is i cant get it so time feels natural for my story and it feels jumpy. if i add new locations would that help the time line cause as it stands if i set it all in one place it will just cant see it working...i just thought of something but im not sure if it will work any tips would help

ok, im going to just say it i dont really have a interest in directing i just want to tell my story and maybe play a small role in it. is it easy to get someone to direct or is it easyer to diy it....i just remember you said no shortage of actors, is it the same for directors

and the last one is the music thing i have been thinking of the tracks i want to use if it gets made mostly 70's and 80's funk music most are well known oldies do you have any idea what it costs to get tracks in general....i only want to know cause i dont want to set things up in my head that just wont happen

when you made your film did you watch films you wanted to use as a guide structure wise, at the moment im watching swingers, clerks plup res dogs superbad harold and kumar, waiting, and mallrats for diologue or a visual reference.
chasing amy, 100 girls, 100 women singles, super troopers, 8 days a week, bachelorman, garden state, the last kiss and yours for structure and tone.

how do i not make your mistake and not have a scenes that are to long, "when you said you had that one massive thing to shoot and only like 2 takes" i figure your the best to ask so if i get to that point i dont hit the same snag. was it just the fact you couldnt cut away cause of the shot you set up or was it you just put too much dialogue in the one shot but at the same time needed to have it in the film?


reply

> is there like a rule of thumb
One page of a properly formatted script equals one minute of screen time. Get a program called “Final Draft” it is an easy to learn screenwriting program. Invest in your writing and buy it. If you can’t afford it, you can find free “Word” screenwriting templates online, but they are cumbersome to use and inhibit work flow.

> or should i read it out just as i want it to be acted and time it to get at idea?
Once it is complete and on the page. Arrange a group of friends or find a theater group or buy dinner for some actors and do a table read. Record this read. It’s the cheapest way to watch your script come to life.

> the problem is i cant get it so time feels natural for my story and it feels jumpy.
Transitions and establishing shots. If you have a shot at night and the next shot is a quick morning establishing shot of a building, you just conveyed passage of time. If you pass a lot of time, another trick commonly used is the seasons or holidays. Show Christmas, new years, brown trees, snow, blooming.

> is it easy to get someone to direct or is it easyer to diy it.
In this town you can throw a rock and find a director. The diy way is 1. to preserve your artistic vision, or 2. to do it cheap. Often a director makes the script better, not always in the eyes of the writer, but he interprets the script into a visual medium that speaks to the audience. In “Back to the future” the time machine was originally written as a refrigerator, not a Delorean.

> do you have any idea what it costs to get tracks in general.
Budget $10,000 for each popular song, except for the Beatle$, Elvi$, and Rolling $tones, forget about tho$e. With $10,000, if you don’t get the rights, you can rerecord the song, but don’t get hung up on music. Rarely does the writers vision of music make it to the movie. The music in Clerks was completely redone as was the music in Kisses And Caroms. There are many talented people with more experience in music than the writer. They have their own profession called “music supervisors.” Leave the job to them.

In the case of our budget conscious Kisses and Caroms, where I became the music sup. I originally placed popular songs throughout the movie, then I searched for indie bands that sounded like what I wanted. For example: I originally used Beastie Boys “Girls” It was changed to Copperpot “Go Girls” not a rap song, but kept the girls message I wanted.

> when you made your film did you watch films you wanted to use as a guide
Yes, but maybe I watched too much of Kevin’s stuff while making Kisses and Caroms.:-) So I’ve expanded my library and have watched well over 200 movies that are similar or inspiring to my current project. I watch a lot of award winning and top 100 movies, not that I feel like my writing will be that good, but if your going to be inspired you might was well be inspired by the best.

> how do i not make your mistake and not have a scenes that are to long
If you are using Final Draft, just break any scene longer than 3-4 pages up with a new Slug Line. That was my problem. The twelve pager starts when Tom Ayers enters looking for a cue stick and ends when Drew Wicks leaves for Ginger Lynn’s house. Originally I thought the scene was broken up with Tom’s dialogue and the UPS guy, but it wasn’t. It all remained in the same room with no breaks.

> "when you said you had that one massive thing to shoot and only like 2 takes"
We had many takes of the whole 12 pager. We shot many angles of many people from all over the place. What happened was things got so confusing that a couple shots I only had 1 or 2 takes on. Because the scene was so big, I lost track of the coverage. In editing it was cumbersome to be limited to a few choices and having to chose the lesser of all evils which was not necessarily the best performance.

I asked Kevin what advice he has for an indie, his answer was “coverage” he didn’t shoot enough coverage on Clerks.

Coverage and inserts save the day. They fix angles and allow more choices to cut faster and make a better paced movie.

> was it just the fact you couldnt cut away cause of the shot you set up
I didn’t have any scene scripted to cut to. I could have written some bits with Ryan Parks making deliveries and cut to those, but I didn’t know.

> was it you just put too much dialogue in the one shot
Nope, just not enough Slug Lines in one shot.

reply

Vince Rocca, what happened to your next film? Weren't you going to do a sci-fi comedy flick? I recall a IMDB page listing it in pre-production.

I really liked this film alot & I bought the DVD, but I like the Australian title American Pool 100x better!! Before seeing this film I had never heard the word "carom" before & I'm not even sure if I pronounce it right.

reply

> “Vince Rocca, what happened to your next film?”
I’m working on my next right now. It’s a comedy about a flat chested girl competing in a big breasted world. I’m still in the script first draft stage, but we hope to shoot this year.

> “Weren't you going to do a sci-fi comedy flick?”
You’re referring to "Waste of Space" http://pro.imdb.com/title/tt0765485 I’m just a lowly producer on that. It’s still in post, it’s CGI needs to be perfected.

> “I really liked this film alot & I bought the DVD”\
Thanks, always nice to hear

> “but I like the Australian title American Pool 100x better!!”
Kevin Smith liked it better too, but I feel that “American Pool” works well in Australia, it implies this is America’s version of billiards, but here in America it would imply that the movie is about billiards. Plus it would pigeon hole us as an American Pie knock off and there are already too many “American BLANK” movies trying to cash in on that limelight. I think most consumers dismiss these knock offs and never watch them. I could be wrong, but I dismiss them.

> “Before seeing this film I had never heard the word "carom" before & I'm not even sure if I pronounce it right”
You’re not the only one. It’s pronounced CARE-UM. If I could do it over I’d retitle it, but it’s too late now. Live and learn, and I did learn, I’ve chosen a simple easy to pronounce title for my next flick.

reply

hey buddy just finished restacking my dvd collection its now somewhere around 600 or so 700 if you count tv shows anywho just wanted to know if you have been writing any new scripts

reply

Still working on the flat chested girl script, it's now titled Gals Panic.

reply