MovieChat Forums > Oliver Twist (2005) Discussion > Fagin A LIL Cold Hearted This Version

Fagin A LIL Cold Hearted This Version

posted 18 years ago by Nubian-3
8 replies | jump to latest

I love the 1968 Carol Reed Academy Award winning musical version,have watched it close to a hundred times.I have my own copy of "Oliver" on vhs.I love Roman Polanski's touch equally as well.

I only find it strange that Fagin's character was extremely wicked this time around.The idea that he would agree to Bill Sykes' plan to do away with Oliver by drowning the kid just painted a totally different view of Fagin for me.In the musical he was a wicked old man too.But you actually grew to find him likeably funny,enough to overlook his roguish ways.

I can't recall whether Dickens intended Fagin to be so cold hearted as we see him in this film?

[–] angelfish81 18 years ago

In the story, basically Fagin works with/for Monks to make Oliver a criminal so that Oliver will lose the inheritance from their father's will. He was nice to Oliver to bring him into his group, so he could set him up.

Fagin doesn't care about Oliver, he only cares about the money he can make out of the situation, IMO. The musical portrays him as a more likeable character than he really should be (check out the BBC 1985 version if you get chance, IMO that version has a great portrayal of Fagin, IMO).

[–] Nubian-3 18 years ago

angelfish81

I've been reading so much about the BBC version,people have praised it a lot.Think I just might order a copy.Thanks

[–] angelfish81 18 years ago

I hope you enjoy it (all 6 hours of it, lol). It's a pretty complete version, they actually had the time to get *all* the story in, for once. Monks is creeeeepy...

(I got my DVD copy off eBay, it has Dutch subtitles set up to come on automatically, but they can be removed via DVD remote/player.)

[–] ashleymark83 18 years ago

Roman Polanski's Fagin is much more congruous with Dickens' than Carol Reed's "romanticised" version.

It is abundantly clear that Dickens utterly despises his own creation in Fagin. The character's very presence is depicted with distaste and unease; animal metaphors are used to describe his movements and appearance, as though imbuing him with human characteristics is somewhat insulting to the human race; indeed, Dickens more often than not drops the name "Fagin" in the narrative, in place of "The Jew" which causes much Anti-Semitic controversy and debate.

Fagin isn't supposed to be "amusing". He's actually a more wretched creature than Bill Sykes in the book. He's the epitome of evil, though I find it interesting that Polanski not only portrays his wretchedness but, it could be argued, infers a strong degree of insanity.

Credit for that ought to go to Ben Kingsley too for his amazing performance.

[–] Nubian-3 18 years ago

ashleymark83

Thanks for the enlightening.I think Ron Moody's portrayal was superbly best for the musical rendition,and of course Ben Kingsley was nothing less than astounding.

[–] trinitymplayers 18 years ago

I personally feel Kingsley's Fagin falls between the cold-hearted original and the romanticized musical version. True, he seems to go along with Sikes' preposal to kill Oliver, but at the same time he nurses Oliver through his injury with more care that you might have expected of him. Also, he doesn't incite Sikes to kill Nancy as he does in the book, Sikes pretty much does it on his own initiative. However, Fagin does threaten Oliver with a knife at one point, does threaten him when Oliver is recaptured, and even hits him with a club when Oliver tries to run away. Complex portrayal of the character in this film.

[–] Nubian-3 18 years ago

Just watched "Boy Called Twist" (2004) directed by Tim Greene,another good version of this classic.Fagin is played very creepily in this one.

The setting is South Africa.A well put together version here also.

[–] propast 14 years ago

Kingsley's Fagin was a fascinating character, so pitiable and pathetic. He's not so much an incarnation of evil as he is a sad old opportunist, but it's notable that he generally tries to avoid violence and that he's saving most of his boys from far worse fates (as we see in the first twenty minutes or so, since Oliver goes through a good chunk of them).

His last scene is absolutely devastating. It's hard not to feel a bit of sympathy, and Polanski clearly wants that - notice the addition of the line "You were kind to me."

Paranoid is what they call you in an effort to get you to drop your guard.