Backward Easterners should be more like US - Ae Fond Kiss... (2004) Discussion

[–] openstorage 18 years ago

I hope your whole statement was said in a sarcastic tone!

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[–] philaleksandros 18 years ago

Why? You don't agree?

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[–] openstorage 18 years ago

Obviously there was no sarcasm! I don't talk to people like you, simple as that.

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[–] philaleksandros 18 years ago

LOL... Chill... If I was serious, I wouldn't talk to people like me either. This movie really rubbed me the wrong way... Here's someone who didn't have to descend to sarcasm to make their point. Article from the British Independent. Couple of excerpts below.

http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/film/features/article361930.ece

Asian films tell the same old story

Dominic Savage's new release, about multicultural Britain, is as barren
as all films about Asian experience, argues Kaleem Aftab

Published: 05 May 2006

"Dominic Savage's Love + Hate is the latest in a long line of films that
have left me in despair at British cinema's view of British Asians. As
with nearly all British films featuring an Asian protagonist, Love +
Hate is a predictable romance: a young Asian falls in love with his or
her white counterpart; family and custom get in the way; love conquers
all."

"The idea of multiculturalism being promoted in cinema is a misnomer. It
supports a single view of the world that promotes assimilation into the
mainstream rather than a celebration of cultural diversity. These films
taken as a whole give out the message that Asians must learn to adopt
the British way of life. This type of assimilation is the destruction
of difference rather than the promotion of acceptance."

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[–] c9552038 18 years ago

The reason the above film was made was due to the fact that many communities especially in areas of London where there is more integration are still unaware of the extent of racism from both Asians and Whites in certain areas of England. Whilst showing some stereotypes (which do exist in some places) and dealing with negative images it serves a positive purpose. The day these issues are no longer relevant to society is the day less of these films are made.

You pointed out how integration is important and the role of fitting into the British society, well this film highlights how important integration and acceptance of others is important.

If one action movie is made, no one criticises when another action movie is made. This is a story that has been done before, yes, but told in a different way. It has already won two awards for Best Film.

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[–] philaleksandros 18 years ago

c9552038

"The reason the above film was made was due to the fact that many communities especially in areas of London where there is more integration are still unaware of the extent of racism from both Asians and Whites in certain areas of England."
Yes, this movie does deal with the very important and topical issue of Asian and Muslim racism against the white people in Britain. The conflict and much of the dialogue stemmed from Casim's family's racism towards Roisin. I mean they hadn't even met the girl! They won't accept her just because she's white! The mum, dad and older sister basically imply that she's a whore, emotionally shallow, not capable of commitment, will betray Casim the first chance she'll get, leave him when he runs out of money or gets sick or gets old. All because she's white! I didn't hear any such racist assumptions from Roisin's family! Now, I don't live in Britain. But judging from this movie, I'm guessing that Britain has some serious issues with racism. The racism of Asians and Muslims towards the victimised and oppressed white population. The white people have been negatively stereotyped by Asians and Muslims and as a result are not accepted by the Asian and Muslim community.

"You pointed out how integration is important and the role of fitting into the British society, well this film highlights how important integration and acceptance of others is important."

I hope "Ae Fond Kiss" can teach racist Asians the importance of acceptance and tolerance of white people. But the movie is calling for more than just that. For Asians, its not enough to support the local football team or go to a Catholic school. It's not enough to hang out and nightclubs and spin some tracks as a DJ. They must abandon their backward and racist cultures all together. Including their backward families. What's with this multiculturalism talk? What we need is ASSIMILATION. The Asians MUST look, talk, act and think JUST LIKE US. No halfway measures. As a great man once said, you're either with us or you're against us. If Casim hadn't made the right choice of throwing away his cultural baggage, he would've become like his hypocritical friend. The one who has been going out with his white girlfriend for 7 years but doesn't have the courage to marry her. I wish Asians could just see how much more civlised and better the ways of the MAINSTREAM people are, like Casim did and just chuck away this Asian business all toghether.

"If one action movie is made, no one criticises when another action movie is made. This is a story that has been done before, yes, but told in a different way. It has already won two awards for Best Film."

You're right. We all know that Asians are only good for one plot line. The whole falling in love with mainstream Britain/mainstream British but denied freedom and happiness by backward Asian culture/family plot. Let's pop one of those out every year or so. It could be a whole new genre in itself. :)

This movie is daft on so many levels, sarcasm's the only treatment fit for it.

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[–] c9552038 18 years ago

I was commenting on the film Love + Hate not Ae Fond Kiss, read the previous posts I was replying to!!!!

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[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] c9552038 18 years ago

"We all know asians are only good for one plot line"

Hello, what about Naveen Andrews in Lost and Parminder Nagra in ER. There are plenty of talented asian actors out there wanting to do work like this but the writers, producers, directors etc need to play there part to create these roles and opportunities.

As for your criticism of backward easterners have you not stopped to think that Casims parents are an example of a small minority of asians and not all asians are like that. What you see in the film is an example of an attempted forced marriage by the use of emotional blackmail, this is completely different from the concept of arranged marriages which are not forced, nowadays arranged marriages are similar to dating agencies where the parents introduce their kids to each other then the kids chill out together, go out, spend time together etc, this is how it has happened with the majority of my asian friends, its a bit like Brad and Jen being introduced by their agents who thought they wud be a good match (but thats a bad example). Going back to the issue of forced marriages yes I agree that needs to change but to change something you need to understand it, to understand it you need to watch it, this film serves its part in explaining to people not familiar with the concept what it is about, Casim makes a good point in the film of how his parents are in a different generation and it is too late for them to change, and its up to the youth to change, you can see this happening nowadays when you look around.

You seem to group asians all together as one group and your posting seems to imply that all asians are like the ones that are in the film, thats just pure ignorance. If you see a Black or Chinese family in a film do you assume all Blacks and Chinese are like that.

Also why should everyone be "just the same". The beauty of the world is that we have different people with different cultures. We should all try and get along and adapt to each other. What some asian parents fail to understand is that their children in this country grew up being British Asian and this is a different culture to them, its a blend of the two, hence the parents need to realise that their kids may think differently and they should adapt to this, but that doesn't mean they have to be just like everyone else, they should hold on to all the positive aspects of their culture.

Oh and my previous posting was in response to a different film.

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[–] searching-girl 18 years ago

I am from Germany and I know this kind of behaviour (to judge ybout some, even w´hen not have seen this person at least for one time...) from Germany as well as from for example Turkish 'rooted' citizens as well.

You seem to be disapointed, that the Asian has to go mainstream.... that there should be an integration...
Fine, I think the same. But the reality is often that the 'foreigners' = in another culture based citizens often do not want it themselfs!
Many of them are more (100% Turkish / Italian / .... then the citizens in the countries where they come from. That includes Germans in the USA as well as other countries.
This typ of people gives their children no chance to integrate themselfes in the new country without leaving their families, or at least after big fights over that theme / decission / wish. I do not mean the changing / transforming to the 'new' culture, I mean only the mixing of 2 cultures! Integration means for me, to stay with at least a lot of the 'own' culture, but also to be curious / open for the 'new' one.

What I do not like about the posted article is, that it sounds (for me) like it critises the movie for showing a situation, what the writer thinks it should be in another way (= new politcal correct variation) and did not accept, that there are still other realities in the real world.

BTW, do you have an idea, how strong the pre-judge against Germans is still today for example in the south of France? My brother once WANTED to marry a girl from there....

searching for open minded people

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[–] c9552038 18 years ago

I am not disappointed at all, you have not understood what I am trying to say. I am all for integration but I don't feel you need to let go of all your cultural beliefs and values in order to integrate. Differences between people should be embraced not rejected. Everyone does not need to have identical values and beliefs in order to integrate. We are not a bunch of sheep. If two Asian people are happy with an arranged marriage and it works for them then why should we criticise it. Likewise if two Asian people want a love marriage thats cool too. If an Asian wants an arranged (and yes it does happen) or love marriage with a non-Asian thats great too. Mainstream roles are brilliant and so are the roles teaching others about the problems that some Asian people face.

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[–] searching-girl 18 years ago

No, I do not think that I have misunderstood you. I think you see not what others have written here really, that counts for nearly all answeres and posts here, that are in connection with you.
I have understand before more then 35 years, what you try to 'teach' us, but you seem to oversee, that sometimes someone has to chose or never will get his / her 'peace' back.
Yes, in Asia the muslims males are allowed to chose themselves, but especially in Asia (all religions!) it is often common too, that the family tries to, formulated in diplomatic way, interfere (mostly sucessfully). The same counts for example also for a German family, were the daughter wants to marry an African man of an muslim or (=someone of another culture). Or... wherever you want to look after this behaviors, it's common in ALL countries. Means not in EACH family, but much to often.

It's called tradition, not to confuse with religion.... what very often especially this kind of families seem to confuse (=> not you, I think).

searching for open minded people

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[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] c9552038 18 years ago

Searching Girl !!The point that I have tried to put across is that if an Asian person is HAPPY with an arranged marriage and ALL parties involved are HAPPY and AGREE there is nothing wrong with that tradition. What is wrong is FORCED marriages as represented by the film. That culture of FORCED marriages I agree is wrong and parents etc should change their attitudes. The majority of Muslim males AND females are allowed to choose who they want to marry whether it be arranged or love. None of my Muslim friends have been forced. I have Muslim FEMALE friends that are in inter racial marraiges either to Whites or Blacks and their parents approved. Maybe this is not the case in Scotland, I don't know about that, but where I am from the film is not representative of Asian families. There is a lot of good in some of the tradtions (not the ones in the film though!!!!) As long as cultural and religious beliefs and traditional beliefs do not harm another person or urself people are entitled to live as they wish. We do not need to be exactly the same and live to the same ideals, integration should embrace difference and accept. My friends are Sikh Hindu Christian Muslim etc we all have different cultural beliefs. I accept them for who they are and they accept me. I don't need them to live like me in order to bond with them.

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[–] searching-girl 18 years ago

Again the same. Had I sayed one word AGAINST in this?
I know this all too, no need to repeat agin, what is said again and again. But you had missed in your past posts (not so much in the last 2 posts) the other side of the possibilities. Only like it should be for all ... and is fortunatedly now for many (depending the area) or few or most...

Your first posts sounds, for me, like a 'rant' about not showing the ideal way to solve a situation like that. That it should be accepted to let all be like they are, if they like it so (what is also the meaning of all other posters here too!). NO ONE HAD SAYED IT SHOULD NOT BE IN YOUR WAY!
But it is not the only way, in the real world are a lot of other variations too. Not all are o.k. for me and a lot are absolut o.K. for me. I am simple AWARE of the real life's different realities. Your last posts imply, you know it too, but you seem be on a kind of 'crusade'. It is your formulation, for me not balanced enough, not your intention / meaning / ideal. Have you understand it now? It is very difficult to explain something like this in a foreign language.

BTW: I think NOT that it is necessary that ALL have to agree with someones or a couples choice. I think you mean that too, you mean probaly only the 2 within the marriage and not all of both families... Your formulation is probably for the moment a bit like you feel... engaged, or? ;-) And I think, that is exactly why also other people post answers like mine, you sound very absolte... forcing... at least for me.

searching for open minded people

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[–] c9552038 18 years ago

"The Asians MUST look, talk, act and think JUST LIKE US. No halfway measures. As a great man once said, you're either with us or you're against us." from a previous post by another poster.

This is what I am responding to, this comment that Asians must be JUST LIKE US.My comments are aimed at this.

That is what I don't agree with. Don't take things so personally, my comments were not aimed at you directly.

"BTW: I think NOT that it is necessary that ALL have to agree with someones or a couples choice."

I agree with you on this one.

I am also aware that some couples suffer due to their families not agreeing to their relationship and the community.I think thats unfair.

As for thinking that we should accept people the way they are, it is hardly forcing. I am not forcing people to agree with me, I'm simply stating my opinions, if people think otherwise like the person that posted the original comment they are free to voice their opinions. It is a forum after all.

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[–] deliawinkle 18 years ago

you ignorant pig

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[–] agitatoruk 17 years ago

What's with this multiculturalism talk? What we need is ASSIMILATION

Well, what is wrong with that view? Assimilation can be progressive and there can be no real integration without assimilation. The question is - what sort of assimilation should be fought for? One that is democratic and voluntary and comes from below? Or one from above which invariably means assimilating the values of official/establishment Britain? I think the former.

Multiculturism is just a continuation of classic establishment divide and rule tactics. It groups us into our particular sects and therefore we're far easier to manage. God forbid we should unite along class lines? We can't be having that!

It also panders to the racists in that it affirms difference. We're all 'different' and you have a right to be 'different'. Lets celebrate our 'differences!'. Yep and the BNP fully agree with that. They think we're all different too! What about a right to be the same? Assimilation from below as opposed to authoritarian Multiculturism from above.

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[–] philaleksandros 17 years ago

AgitatorUK,

Sorry about the late reply... I have a feeling we are of the same opinion, but running circles around semantics. By assimilation I assume you mean venturing out of one's "ghetto" area for education/work/friendship/relationships etc... That is great. I'm all for that. As I read in a blog lately "the more mash the less clash". That's good "assimilation" or "integration" as I'd put it.

I'm also wondering why the word assimilation is never mentioned about the majority. Is assimilation a birthright for every member of the majority? How "assimilated" your average sociopath, regardless of religion or ethnic origin?

This insistence in the movie that some arbitrary cultural values are superior to others really gets up my wick. The idea that only the "west" knows how to conduct love, marriage, relationships etc, while the rest should mutely learn from "us" - you'd think those were past their time. Especially among "liberal" film makers. Uniting along class lines shouldn't mean that we have to give up our individual traits, some of which surely arise from our varying cultures and religions. Individuals are "different". No country, however homogeneous it believes itself to be, will get anywhere without accepting that. The racists at BNP think in terms of "superior", "inferior" and "purity". That's the opposite message IMHO.

Multiculturalism has come under a lot of fire lately. It has particularly brutal consequences when unelected (usually government-appointed) "representatives" are taken to speak for entire groups united only by an ethnic or religious designation. No one ever assumes Blair or Brown speak for all Brits (even if they were elected), but ideas of individuality seem to be harder to apply to the monoliths of ethnic minorities. Just like feminism has been abused to suit neo-imperialist agendas, so has multiculturalism. This doesn't mean we have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. :)

Lastly, I think it'd be unhealthy to have a situation where people from the majority insist that people from OTHER cultures and/or religions change and become a certain way, before they are willing to accept them. Now whether that's becoming "assimilated" - or "civilized" to use a more old fashioned word - into the values of the official establishment, or the values of self-declared guardians of democracy or the working man, they'll both have the same effect. When there are so many pre-conditions to acceptance, so many judgments, so much scrutiny under the microscope, people from ethnic minorities are just going to stop bothering to socialize with people who are ethnically or religiously "different". Would you want to go through some test of fire to be invited to your neighbour's barbecue? So, if people insist on a checklist, ultimately societies will just end up more ghettoized.

Best of luck with the agitating :)

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[–] agitatoruk 16 years ago

This insistence in the movie that some arbitrary cultural values are superior to others really gets up my wick. The idea that only the "west" knows how to conduct love, marriage, relationships etc, while the rest should mutely learn from "us" - you'd think those were past their time. Especially among "liberal" film makers. Uniting along class lines shouldn't mean that we have to give up our individual traits, some of which surely arise from our varying cultures and religions. Individuals are "different". No country, however homogeneous it believes itself to be, will get anywhere without accepting that. The racists at BNP think in terms of "superior", "inferior" and "purity". That's the opposite message IMHO

Sorry for my even later reply! :-). Yes, I don't think we're far off agreeing but on this quoted part:

This hasn't been the case with the BNP since they adopted the 'Haider approach' around 7 or 8 years ago. The same tactics that have also worked so well for the likes of Le Pen and all the other Euronationalists. In that time, they've gone from having no councillors to being in the hundreds and are the fastest growing party in the country. So these change in tactics have been important. Now even Nick Griffin claims to be an anti-racist. Rubbish of course, what they're really about is what you described and the mask often slips but the logic of multiculturalism is partly to blame for their rise.

It promotes diversity as an end itself. Obviously that has left the door wide open for the BNP to simply talk about that in terms of white British people just being 'different' and not 'superior'. They go into white areas and exploit real or imagined senses that other groups have got more political representation and so get more favours ('community leaders') and simply talk about representing white people in the same way. The BNP aren't suddenly gaining support again because white people have got more racist. In fact, this is surely illustrated by having to adopt the Haider approach in itself. They can't get anywhere talking like they used to.

For this reason Multiculturalism absolutely has to go. It is a boon for all racists of all kinds. No that doesn't mean I want my neighbours to adopt my culture if I invite them around for a barbecue :-) it means that shouldn't be any attempt to herd individuals and peoples into their pre-defined, officially designated ‘culture’. It would mean an end to the effective racialisation of local goverment that started in the early 70s. It would also mean an end to the corrupt culture of anti-racist jobbery and grant handouts (ie, community centre politics). This would kill off the BNP inside a decade and make any chances of further clashes between various communities in places like Oldham, Bradford, Birmingham etc considerably less likely. As it stands, things are just going to get worst and multiculturalism will be firmly to blame.

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[–] Desertman84 16 years ago

This movie is a love story that tackles inter-racial romance and how their lives have been affected by their love.Simple as that.

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[–] pwil508127 18 years ago

Allah forfend! When trampling flower beds is funny then bring on some art. If Ken is a Cannes winner, I will have to renounce my love of French cinema.

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[–] Stirling00 18 years ago

I think you're using over-the-top hyperbole and sarcasm to make your point. Clearly, there are SOME instances where West Asians [or other immigrant groups] have to adapt to their host culture. I can certainly understand the parent's position given their upbringing in Pakistan- but they're no longer in Pakistan and you must sacrifice certain aspects of your culture to assimilate with your new surroundings. They CLEARLY went too far to bring Casim back into the fold- the emotional blackmail and manipulation they used on their own son made me lose my sympathy for them [and it WAS there].

This is not to to say that one must become ENTIRELY British- faux Protestantism, bad food and football hooliganism- but when you emigrate certain things are expected of you and if your son wants to marry a white, British [or Irish as the case may be] woman you give it your blessing. I would not emigrate to Pakistan and search out only white Christians as a mate for either myself or my children.

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[–] c9552038 18 years ago

As I stated previously I do disagree with the parents in the film and that is an example of a forced mariage not arranged. Also I do think people need to integrate but that doesn't mean changing every single thing about u. In Islam an Asian man is free to marry a woman of another race or religion so this family is not representative of all Asian families. There is nothing in our religion that says Casim cud not marry the girl, but I think when people watch this film they misunderstand and assume all asian families are like that. Therefore Islamically there is no reason why Asian parents (Muslim ones) can not give blessing if their son wants to marry a white British girl.

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[–] salahdua 18 years ago

Regarding the original post, yes, I got the sarcasm. I watched this movie after hearing how balanced it was, it was even marketed as "non-judgmental" about Casim's family on the Sundance channel website, but watching it, especially at the end, brought back bad memories of "East is East." I did initially feel that they tried to portray the family as one that had suffered the hardships of racism. They really did not show the "balance" of more widespread, and shockingly acceptable, racism against Muslims living in Europe. This movie just feeds the idea that native Europeans who regard Muslim immigrants (no matter what generation they are) as backward are *justified* in holding such beliefs. Not all Asians living in Europe are the caricatures that European cinema seems to enjoy portraying. If this movie had been made and marketed in the US, and if they substituted, say, African-Americans, Latino-Americans, or Asian-Americans in the role of Casim's family, you can bet we would have all been deeply offended. At least in America, we TRY to step outside our little boxes.

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[–] philaleksandros 18 years ago

Ah Salahdua, why do so few people get sarcasm? Even when it comes clearly labelled. :)

Yet another movie with Asian characters that are backward and intolerant. To the people screaming "but that doesn't mean its saying they're all like that!", please take a step back and think about it. How many positive depictions of Asian characters do you see in British movies? Can't they all be neatly categorised into "bad Asians" who subscribe to some alien culture or "good Asians" who discard it and become just like us ie. accept "British" culture? In this ethnocentric world, only life-styles popularly associated with white anglo saxon individuals will be classified as British culture. Not the traditions of Caribbeans or Asians regardless of how long these populations have been in Britain. Aren't movies like these just driving a wedge between who they define as "us" and who they consider "them" and asking people to choose sides, instead of accepting or at least tolerating each others differences? One or two movies aren't the problem, but when the vast majority of Asian characters fall into this narrative, can you not see how this can influence the audience's thinking? At least for some people, however subtly?

Stories in movies don't exist in a vacuum. Britain is a country where Afro-Caribbens and Asians have been facing hostility and racism from some qaurters for a long time, from Enoch Powell to the Neo-Nazis to BNP. The terrorist attacks in New York, Washington and London and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have currently made Muslim Asians the new visible target for these types of groups. Just in the last couple of years, a Brazillian has been shot by the police because he was unfortunately "Asian-looking" and an innocent Asian man shot in his own home from police raids.

So, when an acclaimed director like Ken Loach decides to have a male Asian Muslim protagonist in his movie, you expect better than for him to depict the Asian family as so backward and racist towards white people. I totally agree, trying to force your son to marry his cousin is barbaric and despicable. The family's attitude towards Roisin was at a level of racism that you only expect to see in the caricatures of the baton-weilding Southern Sheriff. Now I'm sure that there are Asian families like that. However, the irony of Loach choosing to depict Asian racism towards white people rather than vice versa in 2004 is almost funny. But in the bigger scheme of things, what was Ken Loach's point exactly in making a movie about such a family? In the context of modern Britain, how does his narrative veer substantially from the "clash of civilization" pundits or anti-immigration groups?

Here's how I feel personally about some movies with Asians:

Thumbs down:

'Ae Fond Kiss', 'East is East', 'Bend it like Beckham' - all fall into the "us" vs "them" trap.
'Bride and Prejudice' - Mostly about fetishising Indians.

Thumbs up:

'My Beautiful Laundrette' - Intelligent, subtle, just plain great.

Neutral:

'Monsoon Wedding' - The Asians are depicted as real people, which seems to be something to cherish in itself.

'A Touch of Pink' - same as above.

'My son the Fanatic' - Disappointing from Kureishi (who also wrote 'My Beautiful Laundrette')

Do you guys know about other movies depicting Asian immigrants? Anyone seen 'Mississippi Masala','Mistress of Spice' or 'Love+Hate' for example?

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[–] c9552038 18 years ago

I get your points and do think more needs to be done as you say to make different kinds of movies with Asian characters in and not just the typical backward stereotypes, I wish people in the Arts would address this but at the moment film-makers and writers seem to be churning more of the same stuff.

Love + Hate - uses both asian and white stereotypes living in a racist town, shows extreme racism from both sides and acceptance from both sides, avoids the cliche of forceful parents instead has a hypocritical older brother, good acting from the cast though and for some people this way of life is a reality,aimed at a teenage audience, message is racism is wrong and comes from everyone not just whites.

Mistress of Spices - have not seen it but would presume it is close to the book.

Other movies with Asians

The Guru - typical stereotypes

Bollywood Queen (or it could be princess)

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[–] philaleksandros 18 years ago

'Harold and Kumar go to White Castle' - was really funny and pretty good in my opinion.

I really liked 'The Guru' actually.

******************************SPOILERS FOR 'THE GURU' AHEAD***************

Perhaps I am overanalyzing it but it felt like they were showing the stereotypes just to poke fun at how absurd they are. Especially the common hippy perception of the spiritual, mystical, exotic, 'tantric', wise sage type Indian. The American Dream too comes in for some scrutiny. I liked the scene where the main character (forget his name) is told to use the tradesman's entrance, almost shades of the segregation era. And of course, Bollywood had to be thrown in. I was pleasantly surprised by that movie.

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[–] c9552038 18 years ago

yeah I though it was amusing and sweet in places but some of my Asian friends found it really offensive, I don't understand why though.

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[–] philaleksandros 18 years ago

"Head On" or "Gegen die Wand" from 2004 is a German movie where the main characters are second-generation Turkish immigrants living in Germany. I haven't seen it but it's meant to be truly excellent. So what if Turkey isn't Asian but European and Germany isn't Britain...

OK come on people! There has to be more movies about this topic that are really something to get excited about - other than 'My Beautiful Laundrette' from all the way back in 1985!

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[–] fiona-dancy 18 years ago

Have you seen "Yasmin" by Simon Beaufoy / Kenneth Glenaan?

"Gegen die Wand" is excellent, if you can stomach the excessive (but not gratuitous) violence.

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[–] matthias-locker 17 years ago

"The house of sand and fog" is also a better and more subtle movie than "ae fond kiss" on cultural clashes between east (Iran) and west (US) - although its not really based on a love story.

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[–] philaleksandros 17 years ago

IMHO, neither is it really about cultural clashes. It's just a whole bunch of people going through tough times...

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[–] bluezorrs 16 years ago

look, in comparison with the west muslim culture IS backward. specifically, the vast majority of muslim men in their attitudes and relationships to women are, to put it mildly, grossly immature. i first realized this when traveling in egypt back in 1981 and ever since then all my interactions with muslim culture and individual muslim males has confirmed this. the only way forward is full assimilation into liberal western attitudes regarding the status of women in society.

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[–] cherrycool 15 years ago

"Do you guys know about other movies depicting Asian immigrants? Anyone seen 'Mississippi Masala','Mistress of Spice' or 'Love+Hate' for example?"

'East is East' would probably fall into your thumbs down category; Pakistani father arragnes marriages for his sons and disowns them when they refuse, as they have lived in Britain their whole lives and consider themselves British. 'Us versus them' essentially, but I quite liked it, it was quite funny at times. Also, their mother is a working class white woman, so that is a bt of an interesting twist; the father constantly goes on about how white women are no good for his sons (one of them is seeing a white girl) and yet he himself married one and made a life with her. Interesting film, but good enough.

God Rest Ye Merry Hippogriffs

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