MovieChat Forums > Dying at Grace (2007) Discussion > Euthanasia

Euthanasia

posted 16 years ago by Lychnobite
9 replies | jump to latest

First and foremost, I have to commend and thank those who died and their families for allowing themselves to be filmed for this documentary. What incredible dignity and bravery!

All I could think about while watching these people die is that, if they were animals, we would consider it cruel to allow them to suffer. Of course, such a controversial thing should always be a personal choice (and it may not have been their choices,) but it should also be a right. If I am ever in the same terminal position as these men and women, I hope that I am in a place where they will allow the pain medications to "put me to sleep" as soon as I decide I am suffering too much, or if I am lingering near death and having such difficulty breathing. That is not murder, it is compassion.

Yes, I know that the nurse said that the breathing sounded worse than it felt to the patient, but I just don't know how they could know that. The patient wasn't always themselves, or responsive, but that doesn't mean that they didn't feel anything. It seems to me that the issue of pain was, in large part, glossed over. Perhaps it might have detracted from everything else because most of us are more terrified of the pain than the dying.

Most people find this film to be graphic and disturbing. I wonder whether they understand just how tastefully it was done? There is so much emotional and physical suffering that wasn't shown. Incredible documentary, however, and one that truly makes you think about your own death which is something we are all loathe to do in Western society.

[–] enginecapt 16 years ago

Dying at Grace blew me away. Anyone not affected and forever changed after watching this amazing picture is made of granite.

Alan King is a master at the art of invisible camera documentary pictures.

"Ehhh ehhh ehhh?"

[–] nanafee 16 years ago

I agree that this documentary is powerful, affecting and enlightening, especially in dealing with such strong subject matter.

I did miss the first 20 minutes or so but am still somewhat confused. Was Grace a hospice or not? It seemed not, because in the US anyway, at hospices they usually give a morphine cocktail, as opposed to percocet and make the patient as comfortable as possible with a relatively cheerful atmosphere. These people who were suffering so much at the end of their lives did not seem to be able to be helped very much from the staff to lessen their pain and leave their lives peacefully and painlessly. The relatively young pastor was struggling for what seemed days on end and it was quite upsetting to see.

Maybe in Canada they view morphine as euthanasia. I don't know but in a way it seemed almost cruel the way they died. Still, I applaud the participants and director for their courage.

[–] notdenizen 16 years ago

Apparently percocet is used often to treat pain caused by cancer (I think everyone in the documentary had cancer). There is also some evidence that percocet doesn't cause hallucinations like morphine does, which may be why they made the choice.
http://opioids.com/oxycodone/pharmacokinetics.html

I don't honestly know though since I'm in no way a medical professional. It seemed to me like they were doing everything they could for the patients. Those I've talked to who have watched their loved ones die say that the body fights very hard to stay alive. I think that was pretty evident here.

[–] enginecapt 15 years ago

Was Grace a hospice or not?

The whole thing took place at the palliative care unit of Salvation Army Toronto Grace Health Centre. (palliate: to relieve or lessen without curing; mitigate; alleviate.)

Maybe the fact that it was a private Christian hospital is why they didn't get into the morphine sulfate treatment.

[–] totallyforgiven 16 years ago

I wanted to commend the families for allowing this documentary to be made, I know it has to be hard to deal with a dying relative, then have movie crews around all the time too.

This was an awesome documentary. Everyone should watch it, to give them a clue on what goes on when a person is dying.

The one that bothered me the most, was the older lady that they showed dying at the end. She was there all by herself, if there was anyone with her, why didn't they stand there and rub her hands, arms heard, tummy and talk to her, to make her feel loved, in her last moments. I feel that she died, lonely, because no one was there talking to her when she was dying. YES, I have witnessed and was with a man when he died. I was with him, his last day, the biggest part of the day, I stood beside him, talking to him about things he loved, telling him he was special to me and that I loved him, I was also rubbing his belly and chest, his arms and hands, his head. I also prayed for him, outloud, so that he would know that I was praying for him. I wanted him to feel special and loved, his last moments here on earth. Would you like to be laying there dying and not have anyone talking to you and comforting you?

[–] treetoad 16 years ago

totallyforgiven -
Was that Eda? Yeah, I thought her bro-in-law was around, but I didn't see him (or anyone else) either. I also wondered where the staff was. Surely there had to have been someone who could have been there with her. Unless, of course, she asked ahead of time to be alone.

I worked in hospice for several years. It was in the clients homes where family and friends could be with them 24/7 doing what families do best - cooking, cleaning, sitting around the kitchen table, and wandering in and out of the loved ones room to be close while dying. I was always surprised that, regardless of how the client felt about NOT wanting to have "extra" pain meds to ease themselves into death, their families usually begged it be done once they saw how difficult dying actually appears to be. And tho it was never discussed between anyone of us among the hospice workers, it was a well known fact that the Dr and the nurse had some type of arrangement that allowed this to take place without calling it an "overdose". And the patient always got morphine. I've never known any patient to have had anything less potent than that when in hospice. Maybe it is just in the U.S.

Ya know, even after seeing many, many people die, this show actually made me cry. Especially Lloyd. When his mother finally fell apart after he died, so did I. She was too stoic up to that point. And his partner was the best! The entire ordeal just moved me.

"There's so much pollution in the air now that if it weren't for our lungs there'd be no place to put it all." ~ Robert Orben

[–] totallyforgiven 15 years ago

Made me cry too. You know there is nothing you can do, in the last moments, other than pray for them and talk to them, even if they appear to be way out there. I would rather talk to someone, in that case and they not hear, than not say a thing and they think they are dying alone.

[–] OrsonSwelles 15 years ago

She had asked the hospital staff not to contact anyone other than her brother-in-law.

"...cinema is truth 24 times a second."

[–] Marazmatique 10 years ago

I found Lloyd's death a lot more upsetting. I know that we all have different emotional needs and different ways of coping, and I don't think any of us could predict the emotional state we're going to be in when our time comes, much less that of another person, but... I think Eda's death was much more peaceful. I think I'd rather go like that, rather than while being surrounded by family members, hovering inches above my face, ceaselessly touching me and ceaselessly blabbering about death and afterlife, all while waiting for me to die. It didn't seem like a peaceful death at all. I think I can understand Eda in limiting her contact with family and friends. Pity can be very oppressive. Eda gave the impression of a very strong and independent woman. Patronizingly soothing her like you would a small child or animal at her time of dying would just seem disrespectful and dehumanizing. Lloyd might've felt the same for all we know, but was unable to say so.