Were the Greeks so gently "deported" from konstantinoupolis? The writer and director do not depict the real facts in a realistic way. The real fact is that a lot of murders took place, arsens and violence against the Greeks of Constantinoupolis. It wasn't polite visits from police officers...
Other than that, it is a fantastic film with great music and full of symbolisms to be interpreted differently by each viewer.
The point of any drama is to tell a story... not to be historically corrrect. If the story moved you, mission accomplished!
Most films are historically incorect, however don't forget, everybody has his own view of historical events. History is subjective not objective.
You need to trust history books less, my man. Propaganda is, unfortunately, at the core of a history lesson in every nation, including Greece and Turkey. My grandmother moved to Thessaloniki from Smyrni and I trusted her to give me the real story :)
I liked how this movie did not succumb to the usual propaganda that poisons the relationship between the two nations - the things showed in the movie all DID happen, and the Greeks deported from Turkey had to go through a lot when they came to Greece. the director knows the story first hand through his relatives in Istanbul. Of course there was some violence by the Turks, as normally happens in situations like this, but obviously the director's aim was not to point that out, this is a romantic story not another Midnight Express.
I think you had better revisit the conversation between Fanis and Mustafa in the hamam, it shows how high regard the local Turkish population had for several Greek families in old Constantinople which explains the way they were treated. So please don't be hating :)
Ç áëçèéíÞ éóôïñßá äåí ãñÜöåôáé ðïôÝ óôá ìáèçôéêÜ âéâëßá
I have always found it hard to put things to completion, but I swear this time I w...
I couldn't agree with you more. If the writer really wanted to make a political movie he could easily do so. But this movie is about historical memory as it is preserved in the minds of ordinary people, oral history if you will. And that is exactly what makes it so good.
And you, my friend are completely right. As a future historian myself I have to agree with you Ç áëçèéíÞ éóôïñßá äå ãñÜöåôáé ðïôÝ óôá ìáèçôéêÜ âéâëßá.
It's funny that I have just seen Politiki Kouzina and I was reading this article on Constantinople (Istabul) on the weekend's Observer.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/travel/story/0,6903,1258320,00.html
Having read the comments on this theard, I would like to put a small passage from the article:
"Ask a Turk what he thinks of Greeks and he will say, 'Greeks, Turks, same thing' - in fact, he's likely to speak more kindly of Greeks than Greeks do of Turks. Nationally, though, Greeks have consistently been made to feel unwelcome. Tens of thousands of Greeks left Istanbul after orchestrated anti-Greek riots in the 1950s. Today there are 100 Greek churches in Istanbul but only around 2,000 Greeks. The huge fortress-like Greek school on a hill above the Golden Horn that could easily accommodate 500 pupils has only 30."
History might not be written in pupils' books, but I doubt that John Suchet was educated in a Greek school. You are all right, we should nor harbour hate between the Turks and the Greeks and I am a strong supporter of the elimination of hatred and a believer of the phrase 'Greeks, Turks, same thing'. Still, we should not forget the history that in this case I think was written relatively accurately in pupils' books. If we do so, if we not accept what the Turks did to the Greeks and the Greeks to the Turks, we can never really co-exist in harmony.
Let's all read more history books and try to develop relationships with people, regardless of their country, in the way this beautiful film showed us.
My grandparents were of Italian-Greek mixed heritage and lived in Istanbul all their lives (and their grandparents as well). My mum married a Turkish man and became a Turkish citizen. So I know the story from both sides. Let me tell you that there actually was violence, especially in the 50s when their shops were looted. However, the general Turkish population was never against these people. It has always been the politicans who enjoyed hatred being spread. Someone always benefited from Turks and Greeks (or Italians, Armenians etc) fighting. I lived in a neighbourhood where more than half the population was Armenians and Greeks and I never felt any hatred. Religion was always free and my grandparents always had the freedom of keeping their church. They were also given the option of becoming Turkish (NOT Muslim!) or keeping their original passports.
It is so hard to understand how the deliberate policies of Turkish governments and their nationalistic (probably racist, too) views became so popular but I guess it had more economic reasons. Those people whose shops were looted were not Muslims and not Turks, yet they had a good life compared to the thousands who had then begun to immigrate to big cities like Istanbul. These Turkish people had no jobs, they were extremely poor and they were made to believe these "foreigners" (which I think are the real citizens of Istanbul) closed their opportunities of becoming wealthy and strong. I believe to cause chaos, you need to keep your ghettos full and your people hungry. I am sure without these deliberate hatred seeds planted, everything would have been much better and it is time for Turkish and Greek people to understand that we are not so different at all.
An actor's a guy who, if you ain't talking about him, ain't listening (Marlon Brando)
Whatever happened in the past should be left in the past. Harbouring old hatred only leads to new conflicts. My first wife, and we were married for more than 30 years, was from Smyrne. Her origins were very mixed, with a father born in Edirne whose family originated as Italians from Chios and an Austrian grandmother, and her mother from a family with Italian and Maltese connections. At home their first language was French, but they could easily slide into Greek or Italian should cousins come calling. None of their families were ever asked to leave Turkey, but Father had to serve in the Turkish army. They were as proud of Turkey as their Greek/Italian heritage. After we migrated to Melbourne, we were joined one day by a friend of Yugoslav origin who had married a Greek girl from Istanbul, and they did have to leave Turkey. But they always loved the Old City and never bore any grudge against their old Turkish friends. In Melbourne the Constantinople Christian Assocation wallowed in all things Turkish. In Mentone a Melbourne suburb, a very large Greek population was joined by a big influx of Turks, who mostly became members of the Greek Club. We had many Greek friends mostly from Thessaloniki, and whilst inflamed when the subject of Cyprus was ever raised, they soon mellowed and carried on as friends with the Turks. It is the food and music that joins them as one, and this film goes a long way to carry that message. Forget religion, it is half the cause of the problem and the sooner it is ditched, then the sooner this World will be at peace. I have traced the whole of the Bible to Ancient Egypt, but that's another story.
shareYou seem to be as hostile as you accuse turks of being. This attitude will get you nowhere believe me.
If you men only knew
msconfig, you are absolutely right!!!
And kzarog, I DO NOT agree with you (and neither with the Observer/Guardian writer). "Greeks, Turks, are -- after all -- NOT the same". It is a notion of many Turks and they all too often purport this, but HISTORY, CULTURE, ETHNICITY, LANGUAGE, RELIGION, SOCIETY, VALUES AND MUCH MORE speak against it. I would say that there are hardly two people SO DIFFERENT to each other as Greeks and Turks. Only because the Seldchuk (Ottomans, Turks -- call them as you like) occupied Greek territory (and almost all of the Balkans) for 400+ years does not mean that there are any similarities, besides from the odd culinary overlappings and some Greek words (again: mostly culinary or words for food) which are definitely of Turkish origin. --- THAT'S ALL, folks! --- The Greeks of Constantinople, which have founded this place some 2,700 years ago, were treated in their last days (before being largely expelled from Constantinople, Smyrna and other places) like the Jews of Germany in the 30s, who lived through a chain of sad events which led up to the so-called "Reichskristallnacht", the mother of all anti-Jew pogroms in Western Europe. Just because a lot of these Jews (not all) lived better and were better educated than the majority of the German people they became an easy target for state-led hate mobs who despised culture, who despised the enlightened atmosphere of many Jewish circles, who despised their relative well-being, who despised their allegedly good connections to the power circles of the German society of that time. Those Germans looted Jewish stores, stole their businesses, beat them up and -- as we all know -- almost eradicated their presence in German society (and I am not even talking of the holocaust here). That's EXACTLY what happened to the Greeks in Asia Minor! Please don't forget that. --- So, Turks who lightheartedly say that Greeks and Turks are all the same are in fact jealous of what Greek civilisation has accomplished, trying to hide their minority complex with such ridiculous comparisons. And, in effect, are fixing history.
I would like to know if you have first hand experience on this subject or you are telling us about the things you know from history books? Read all the posts about people with mixed heritage and you will know what made all these people feel they belong together. Maybe then you can understand better.
If you men only knew
Hi to all
I would suggest to those that harshly critisize the Hellines that appear fairly hostile, to think whether their families back in '22 have lost relatives, homes, money, jobs and shops because of the 'sudden fire that was set in Smyrna by unknowns' as turkish and europ-ized biographical books suggest carefreely. I would also like you to think in what terms Turkey and Hellas are friends. I haven't seen any cabinet council in either countly to be voted for their air of friendship. Normally, public in countries that seek friendship and consider themselves as friends would also seek the analogus governors with the same beliefs. I see none of the above at present, and past. Spain and Turkey are indeed friends. Good neighboors are Hellas and Italy. Hmm. And I would definitelly be more emotional if I was living in a neighboor full of Turkish as the dear frieds spoke about their experiences. There is no objectiveness in history, I agree. But damn, there are facts.
To put that in prespective, Constadinoulis speaks of herself. Its full of beautiful Hellenic architecture (as Turkey preferes- Byzantic, Roman, Ionian ect). I haven's count them but I would say the 70% of it is Hellenic. Not to mention the burnt ones.
Finally, as the movie is the subject, I would add something to the reasons why the scenario was so polite with Turkish. Maybe its simply that the guy who made it was afraid the 'democratic' consequences of such a risky movement, i.e. presenting the truth in Turkey is suicidal. Go do some research dear friends and you will see what happened to those who say politically the truth in TR. Jails, censorship, International Court of Justice ect. Its not an easy thing to say an ufitted truth in a non democratic country
Lastly, my friends, if you look back to basics we are certainly not the same race. Its just to much of a mix.
Love
E.
oh come on, this is the wrong way to approach the movie. it is not a piece of propaganda nor a product of hate. obvioiusly the director shares few (if any) feelings of dislike towards the turks, like some (may i add) reasonable greeks of the modern age. cinema is an art and art's main objective is (or at least should be) to eliminate hate between different peoples and races. I will not go into history and modern politics concerning the two countries, because the topic is far too convoluted and controversial. i respect the people who have lost relatives, homes, money, jobs in '22 and it is important to consider them. But propaganda in order to fuel an fundamentalist nationalist (but equally) racist mentality is just immoral and incorrect.
thank u
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