what the hell none of the badns at the warped tour a punk just cause a kid wears a studded belt, a wallet chain, and a writs ban doesn't make hime punk any way most of those wallet chain kids dont know the meaning of punk hell they probably dont know who the ramones are just cause you call your self a punk doesn't make you one
shareEver heard of spell check?
"I'm cooler than Ashlee Simpson."
yah.. that is true.. but what i think of an "punk" is the unseen, anti-flag and bouncing souls.. but "punk rock" is different.. its more of an emotional thing then just a *beep* the government *beep* the world" thing.. both kinds are good.. but are different
sharesee the movie, they make a joke about that ctually when they say 'These bands are as punk rock as Pee Wee Herman"
share"most of those wallet chain kids dont know the meaning of punk"
From your grammar I'm guessing you don't know the meaning of a lot of words...
And like someone else said, punk and punk rock are different things. Plus punk's dead, it failed; it's left a dent in pop-culture sure, but society at large remains unchanged. Politics and the world at large are just as *beep* as they've ever been. Punk's dead, get over it.
You are obviously dumb, because if punk was dead then why do people like Anti-flag? Or Pennywise or Bad Religion or The Offspring. See, you are wrong, AND I am right.
sharePunk as in the original punk movement and morals. Punk set out to changed to the world and it failed miserably, end of story. The punk spirit's alive and well with multi-millionaires The Offspring and clothes designing entrepeneurs Blink 182 and all their ilk. What punk supposedly stands for - rebellion against corrupt, hypocritical authority - might be a nice idea but ultimately the punk movement changed nothing. Hell, Sex Pistols were one of the earliest manufactured bands, in that they didn't come together themselves, they were brought together.
And by the way, Tupac, Elvis and Beethoven are all dead, but people still listen to them.
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NMTB was recorded before sid even joined the band with the original bassist, Glen Matlock, but
no one had to play for him during live shows. he sucked, but he could play enough for their
songs. And as far as them being manufactured, Malcolm McClaren jumped on the band wagon
and managed them, but he didn't create them. They were themselves, McClaren just knew how
to exploit that. And *beep* punk rock. The posers stole it long ago.
"See, you are wrong, AND I am right."
Wow, it sure is hard to argue with that logic...
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in fact, you could argue since 92 or so, its been brought to the forefront more then ever. of course, like anything, its been commercialized, but you cant argue
its influence these days. when VH1 has a big punk documentary about the 25 years of punk, you gotta think its more then just a dent.
plus, let me add that too many people pigeonhole punk saying it has to sound like the ramones/or the pistols. people forget the clash made london calling, which sounds nothing like a PUNK album. remember, the point of punk was DIY, and having fun. part of why i hate emo, i guess.
the funny thing is that the ramones, who pretty much epitomize punk, were influenced by bands like the beach boys and ? mark and the mysterians.
"now they got the sun, an' they got the palm trees,they got the weed, an' they got the taxis"
http://interpunk.com/item.cfm?Item=78939&;
Okay maybe I over-exaggerated a little bit, I mean I love bands like Refused who took a punk-inspired DIY attitude towards their work, but punk, as in the traditional three-chord punk sound, has become a joke. The Clash were a great band though.
The punk spirit lives on in independent film and experimental bands who aren't afraid to take risks. But bands who sound like every other punk or punk rock band of the last 30 years are ironically pretty damn conformist. That's why I'd say the original punk movement is dead.
I'd actually say bands like The Clash advancing the punk sound is what killed punk, because now you've got a wide range of artists like the rap group Public Enemy or hardcore bands like Dillinger Escape Plan and loads more who have much more of a punk attitude than bands like The Offspring and Blink 182, who are corporate whores, or bands that elitist punks are more likely to listen to, like The Exploited, who just preach to the converted and are really *beep* boring.
Hating emo? Emo is just one of the many punk-inspired sub-genres that started advancing the sound but's now become over-exposed and as such has turned to *beep* All post-hardcore bands get tagged emo now, just like all metal, or even rock, bands were being labelled nu-metal a couple of years ago. But a lot of the bands who get labelled emo - like Glassjaw, Thrice - are way more "punk" than most punk bands, in that they take more risks with their sound, and Thrice, for example, have donated a percentage of their record sales to charity since they first started out.
I might be a little biased, because where I live has an awesome local music scene, and there are lot of crappy hardcore bands and stuff that play shows, but the absolute worst bands are the ones that call themselves punk and rant about politics on stage, because they're *beep* idiots. They're music sucks - half the time they're playing the same awful covers, I swear I'm gonna blow my brains out if I have to listen to a half-arsed "Anarchy In The UK" or "American Idiot" again - and they do moronic things like wearing one of those NOFX "Not My President" T-shirts with a picture of Bush on it. Now that'd be fair enough if I lived in the US, I'd probably own one of those T-shirts myself, but c'mon, what kind of a moron wheres a T-shirt that says that in the UK? Obviously he's not our president, we couldn't vote for him even if we wanted to.
This is a long, rambling post, but I'll sum it up and say that everything that made punk special and exciting in the past died out and it's morals etc. were incorporated into other musical genres which themselves become over-exposed and die out, and the most important aspects of these genres then inspire the next wave of music. And on and on it goes...
see, but i like that punk emcompasses more then 3 chords played fast. bands like Television and blondie were considered punk in what is termed the golden age of CBGB's. to me, its all rock n roll.
i agree about PE and other hardcore bands being more punk then the offspring or blink 182. to me, blink and the like (good charlotte, are u listeng?) are to the clash/ramones what the monkees were to the beatles/who. a xerox of the real thing.
"now they got the sun, an' they got the palm trees,they got the weed, an' they got the taxis"
Ahh, but a lot of people would say Blondie and their contemporaries were new wave bands. I don't know, I guess I exaggerated punk's lack of impact in my first post, but traditional punk is a joke now. It depends on your point of view I suppose. If you look at it as punk spirit and punk attitude, I guess you could say it's still alive (though the fact Bush got re-elected is proof that it's efforts are still pretty futile), but the original punk movement itself is dead. Some people see anything with a punk or anarchic attitude as being punk; you seem to take that point of view, and I guess your idea of punk's alive and well, but people who see punk as being exclusively bands who play the same-old boring traditional punk and punk rock, well their idea of punk is pretty obselete, cause the bands are just preaching to the converted, and the original poster seemed to be one of the people who say only bands who sound like Rancid or The Exploited can be called punk. The whole idea of following a punk rock rulebook (you can't sound a certain way or do certain things) is just as bad as "selling out", because it's letting yourself be limited artistically by other people's opinions of you, and basically being a poseur, living up to what punk is "supposed" to be.
shareman punks is almost dead at first they were bands that were against the government and the working class they tried to wake up those guys that worked 12 hrs and do something else than just breaking ur back for some fcking fat ass that gave us orders while they really enjoy life thats what it is about
but as we know things change but this time it was viceversa and now they are trying to make us feel worhtless and to be sad all time and to work and die like a fool and then they call themselves punks
rock, blues, punk, music is almost dead
first off I'm a huge punk band but like dapt89 said Music is almost dead. I agree, as much as it's a joke to people "video killed the radio star" really is a correct phrase. Music went down hill the second it became a contest of best looking band instead of best sounding band.
As for punk music I think it's about the lyrical attitude not the sound I mean ben folds advertised his band as punk rock for nerds. In theory it was a great way to put it because lyrically they were very punk rock (don't even mention brick, that's like mentioning time of your life and trying to say that Green Day isn't punk)
HOWEVER, i recently filmed a small documentary about punk music for my music009 class and while all the college age band members talked about how there's nothing wrong with being on the radio and stuff "making a living out of what they do" I think it was interesting that it was a 16 year old kid who said..
"you can't be punk and be on the radio, I mean wasn't that what punk was about to begin with? going against the grain, going against the popular trends? they don't even stand for anything anymore I mean Minor Threat was all straight edge and Fugazi was all anti-corporation but what the hell does say Blink 182 stand for? nothing."
the other highlight quote (if anyone even cares) was from a guy who was 27 and had been in the local scene since he was 16 when he said...
"the music scene is so dead now it's scary, the best thing in the world is when you're playing a show and there's a 3 piece punk band made up of like a 13 year old, 14 year old and a 15 year old playing three chords and having a blast. Guys will say 'they suck' but I mean at least there doing it for the love of the music, not the love of money and you can't help but look at it and say 'hey one time that was me with my hair dyed blond, and spiked and my clothes torn' and it's the best feeling in the world because you know there's still love for music somewhere"
okay, person directly above this, thankyou.
Other people, or shall I narrow this down to the first post, Punk is a subculture. Culture is defined as: "The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought."
Products of human work and thought include fashion. So, even if you dont like it, Punk has a fashion that coincides with it. It may not be the most important aspect of it, and not having it doesn't make you any less or more punk.
What I will defend is that Punk is a right to your opinion, and you should defend that right.
There are plenty of good punk rock bands out there today.Punk did not really start with The Sex Pistols or the Ramones.It is part of the D.I.Y spirit of the 60's Garafe Rock movement.Bands like the Sonics,Troggs,13thfloor elevators.Then comes The Stooges,Mc5,and so forth.There are so many styles of it I have no clue why kids feel the need to call it PUNK when we should have just stuck to Rock N Roll?Elvis was contrversial as Marilyn Manson is today and GG Allin before him.It is the spririt of rebellion and change that fuels punk and Rock n Roll and as long as society has it's problems the childeren will find a new vioce or rebellion and change.This is something that will never die whether it is The Casualties, or Brtney Spears even though we know Brittney is just a puppet to the music industry.I personally hate most of the music on Warp Tour but still feel compelled to see this silly movie?
shareThe Ramones, and The Pistols wanted to be rock stars. They just played the music they wanted to play, instead of what some record label wanted them too. Hell, Joey Ramone wrote "Blitzkrieg Bop" because he loved "Saturday" by the Bay City Rollers, and wanted a song with a cool chant at the begining. They idolized guys like Elvis, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry, and the Stones. But in the end they just wanted to play simple Rock and Roll. So basically punk, was just an answer to the seventies over produced, high and mighty, arena rock. A return to the old school you mught say, with updated subject matter for the world they lived.
share[deleted]
This is like the never ending argument. You can call anyone a sellout these days, but can you back it up??
(This was basically adressed in the Lagwagon song "know it all")
I do not understand if anyone called Nofx poseurs, cause of their independant label, nor is anyone on that label a sellout.
BAD RELIGION CAN NEVER BE SELLOUTS. period. Greg has proved that he fully understands the meaning of punk, as stated in his essays.
THe DEAD Kennedys are another pure band.
Now many people claim their "true punk" (whatever that means) cause they listen to the ramones. however the ramones may have just as well been the pop-punk band of the early days. They have many times been called "the safe punk rock" of their era. They also have appeared to become one of the most mainstream bands to come out of that era, though much of it came later. You can always hear blitzkreig bop in stadiums, commercials and more. so I dont know your standards but it seems to me that this is more punk than other bands you put down.
Punk is supposed to be a sort of movement to better society and clear it of liars, fakes, curruption, and stupidity. Through music it is intended to inspire the youth of the world to be who they are and not be shaped by others ideals.
however people seem to forget this. now anyone can just wear a studded belt from hot topic, and shout anarchy while kicking over traffic cones, and call themelves punk. meanwhile their ideals and beleifs are just as origional and unique as that of a jock, or a fan of eminem.
the problem can be shown in this example: one person tries to be different, and dresses a certain way. then more people dress that way trying to be different too. soon it becomes mainstream until someone dresses differently. its a endless viscious cycle.
so the next time you wanna call someone a poseur or a sellout think about yourself, and what you do.
I like what savingnickelsanddimes said.
By the way posers are the people who tell other people what this and this should be called and dress up in a certain way. For example, I was 11 yrs. old when I first got into music and one of the first bands that I loved, and still do to this day, was The Misfits. I was listening to them on my first cd player that I had gotten, because back when I was 11 I was more into anime, horror movies, and McFarlane action figures. Some girl got pissed at me just because I called The Misfits rock n roll. I told her wtf man it has drums and guitars so it counts as rock n roll doesnt it? I see people like her as posers. They just dont let us enjoy our music that we love to listen to without there having to be rules in it.
Hello I'm Johnny Knoxville and welcome to Jackass.
Jackass 2 arrived in 2006.
I GOTTEN SOME MESSAGES RECENTLY THAT GO LIKE THIS: "My GOD your doing warped tour thats a real joke... WARPED is suposse to be PUNK RAWK, Metal, rock and all that hard stuff... seeing you play at warped is a real embarassment im asking myself if this could be a joke.... were suposse to hear good rock not DRAGGGG..."
Well thank the lord you people aren't booking Warped Tour because I am indeed playing and it is NO joke. So if you're going to be embarrassed, there are about 10 other stages and hundreds of other bands that may look better on your "PUNK RAWK" score card.
That's always been the fun of Warped Tour for me - the diversity. I've gone to Warped Tour since it started and being able to see everyone from the Vandals to Chiodos to Eminem has always been the best part of the tour. Its certainly kept the tour alive and helped it become the biggest punk rock tour on the planet. If Kevin Lyman kept bringing back the same lineup that he started with in 1995, he'd be broke and it wouldn't work since half those bands don't exist anymore and we'd all be going to see some other ever-evolving, up-to-the-music-minute tour because that is what is successful. Bands change and evolve, genres die and rise again, and musical tastes roll forward. If you're not growing, you'll get left where you belong - in the dust. So turn on your classic rock radio and stay home this summer if you can't accept that really simple fact. Want to hear "Don't Speak" live as played by Warped Tour First Year Veterans No Doubt? You're gonna have to get Gwen off her solo tour and sit through some Rocksteady singles because its 2008 and music has moved the *beep* on.
How much has punk, rock, and metal changed since 1995? Hell, since the genres started? What IS punk anymore? Is it the Ramones? The Cure? NOFX? Green Day? Bad Religion? Good Charlotte? They all come up as punk on my iTunes and computers supposedly don't have emotions so they can't be prejudiced, right? What is metal? Metallica? Slayer? Black Sabbath? KoRn? Shadows Fall? Jethro Tull won the first Grammy award for Metal so they MUST be metal right? Well what the *beep* are tours like Ozzfest and Metal Master Tour doing booking bands that don't sound like Jethro Tull! Metallica LOST to Jethro Tull - obviously, they aren't metal at all and never were! *beep*, JUDAS PREIST is HEADLINING the Metal Master tour! Don't people know that guy is a *beep* Judas Priest can't be metal if they have a "queer" in the band. And forget bands like Goatwhore and Motorhead. *beep* if you don't have someone who plays flute, mandolin, and harmonica just like Jethro Tull you can't be metal.
If we're supposed to be listening to "good rock" and not "drag", you better burn those 'Ziggy Stardust' albums. David Bowie was as drag as drag could be so there is certainly no place for him in punk rock. Thank god Bowie didn't influence any modern punk acts like AFI, My Chemical Romance, Placebo, the Used, or Fall Out Boy. Wait, are they punk or only punk on iTunes? If you sell a million records, are you still punk?
Let's start some sarcasm k? Just to be safe, we should separate bands that sell more than 10,000 records from those that sell more than 100,000. Those that sell 1,000,000+ shouldn't tour at all. It obviously doesn't help little bands that are just starting out to be on a tour with other, larger bands that draw in new fans. In fact, music shouldn't evolve at all so anyone who starts a new band should just be shot. Death to new genres of music! I just want to see No Doubt play their first record. Maybe they could tour with Jethro Tull! That'd be a classic punk rawk/metal tour just like Warped Tour is supposed to be. Plenty of people would go to see that.
And forget putting any hip hop-influenced acts on the bills. Real metal and punk artists will never listen to hip hop or collaborate with hip hop artists. Gym Class Who? No, no, no punk fans will never, ever want to hear something sung by dudes without mohawks. CDs of punk bands covering hip hop and pop will never sell. Punk goes Pop? Punk goes Krunk? No, no, no, never! Real punk bands like Fall Out Boy will never, ever work with hip hop producers.... wait, I never did decide if Fall Out Boy was punk or just iTunes punk... remind me, what is punk nowadays?
In all seriousness, *beep* labels and what is supposed to be "punk" and "rock" and "metal." Good music is good music and tastes differ on what that is. Don't like Norma Jean? Go watch the Horrorpops. Don't like Reel Big Fish? Go watch The Saint Aliva Cartel. In fact, please watch them because their guitarist Rob has a really smart quote - "It wouldn't make sense for [Warped Tour] to be the same tour in 2007 as it was in 1997. These are the bands that kids like, and the tour is smart enough to grow and adapt to that. You still get bands like Bad Religion playing, so it's not like it's lost all its roots."
Let me roll my eyes while I say this: Some "totally punk" bands have complained that Warped Tour is too commercial, that bands on the tour have labels feeding them money and making sure their hair is trendy-spiked-black and their clothes are all the same as the Warped Tour fans.
Well, I don't have a label, my hair is pinker than Barbie's corvette, and I'm pretty sure I'm the only bitch in Fendi shoes there. Does that make me punker than Against Me! who have a record deal? Anti-Flag has their own label so they can't be punk at all - they are part of the machine, right? Thank god I'm not like trendy bands with spikey black hair who wear makeup like Mötley Crüe! They're just doing it because they saw it on FUSE. And *beep* that guy in the Hurley shirt, he just wants to fit in with the crowd! Wait, what do you mean that is Kevin Lyman? Well, what does Kevin Lyman know about Warped Tour anyway, right? Its not like he started it. Now let's be real because being funny doesn't last forever:
Warped Tour is supposed to have something for everyone and that is what makes is a strong, successful tour year after year. It helped break the bands that define genres like emo, hardcore, ska, and every flavor of punk/rock/metal you can make up a dumb name for. From 'mathcore' to 'screamo' to 'folkmetal', its gonna be on some stage at Warped this year if it hasn't already had its run. I think everyone should be thanking Kevin Lyman for believing that punk can't and shouldn't have one face and one sound forever. No one can listen to the same song on repeat for 14 years. It gets old. Except 'Spice Up Your Life.'
well, one of my friends calls her self "one of the last punksters at out school", I don't say anything about it. y'know, I play a Squier Strat and a Harmony acoustic with a missing string and friends will tell me stuff like "dude your instruments suc" or "yeah, if you wanna sound good your gonna need some new pickups" but one of my favorite artists said as long as you play music you like, you win. I mean most of these bands start off doing it for fun or as a hobby, and they spend all there money on there music by then they are gonna need the money from the labels to make it, but what do I know, I'm some kid staying up late on the internet.
sharehahaha cool man.
Hello I'm Johnny Knoxville and welcome to Jackass.
Jackass 2 arrived in 2006.
hehehehe
i love this debate. everyone is basically putting labels on everything, its great. i stopped having spiked hair, calling myself a punk a year ago, because my musical tastes have broadened. i wear baggy jeans, a band tshirt, leather jacket and a trilby. (it started as an occasional thing but has now become part of who i am)
i listen to punk, emo, ska, indie, some accoustic stuff, metal, screamo, classic rock and god knows what other variations of music you care to involve. at the end of the day we're all after some kind of label to be put on us.
i thought about the tshirt a while back that said, "you laugh at me because i'm different, but i laugh at you cause you're all the same" and i thought, hold on, there are loads of people out there that are trying to make themselves different but ultimately end up in a sub culture, not really any different from the people in that group.
in the end, we're all sheep, but with a different shepherd
there was no real point to this, i just love the whole label debate, and if anyone wishes to label me or say anything thats fine, i'm all for the freedom of speech.
I hate this political correctness, they crossed the line when they took cookie monsters cookies away
Punk is about ideological beliefs that generally adhere to leftwing political positions. About a DIY attitude. About fraternity and caring about people rather than just worrying about economic interests. Not the way you *beep* look. The only way a punk band sells out is if it uses the mainstream media to consistently sell records and uses a system (capitalism) it claims needs reform or destruction, to make money.
However, even then is it really so simple? Would someone claim it is bad that a huge audience (as mainstream record labels have access to) heard the intelligence and humour and were influenced politically by an (intelligent) punk song. Nothing is so simple to just run around, pointing fingers whilst saying stupid things like such and such sold out or such and such doesn't 'look' punk. Punk is all about individuality, exactly what look are we all trying to achieve then?
NOFX is one of the best punk bands EVER & Bad Religion ..!!!
do you even know what punk is ?
This debate is older than punk itself.
I stopped classifying music in genres,because it´s stupid to limit everything into a clichée.
I hear "punk" music from the 70s like Sex Pistols,The Clash,X-Ray Spex,Vibrators,Damned...,but i also hear 90s bands like The Offspring,Rage Against Tha Machine,Nirvana,...Everything of this 90s has its "punk" influences,but none of these bands is really "punk".
Why should i limit my taste in music to "genres"?If something pleases me,i hear it,if not than not,may it be the *beep* definition of "punk".
Besides,why do many people use the Ramones as THE punk band?The Ramones loved the bubblegum-pop of the sixties...hear even Blitzkrieg Bob.Is this so shocking,provoking,fast&loud?I don´t think so.
And what is "pop"?What is "selling out"?
The Sex Pistols were "pop"ular,they sold very much lps.Many people´s hero is Sid Vicious.Didn´t the pistols shoot music videos?Didn´t the Clash make dance songs like Train In Vain back in 79 or Rock The Casbah in the eighties?
Sure,the Sex Pistols had energy,but when i´m hearing NeverMindTheBollocks,i don´t feel like they were that angry,and the music has a positive feel to it.
I don´t think that you could shock someone with that music,today.
But no one would ever dare to say that the Clash or the Ramones weren´t "punk",because they were among the first bands to be classified as "punk".
Furthermore,what is so bad about being popular?Sure,the 14 year olds who think they´re "punk" and "rebellious" are enerving,but if bands like The Offspring wouldn´t have been popular,than i wouldn´t know them here in europe,at least in the pre-everyone has internet-time.
To close this post with:
Making rules about what is "punk" and what isn´t,isn´t "punk" at all...and yes,i´m aware about this sentence being perhaps a bit ironic.
Everyone posting on this topic is stupid. There is no code to be punk. It's about the music. If you love listening to punk rock and you support your scene, you're a punk, plain and simple.
It's not about looks. It's not about politics, left OR right wing.
It's not some romanticized, cheesy, bull$hit ideology about making the world a better place.
It's not about "being an individual" and sticking to the man.
It's none of that crap. It's about the bands and the music. Everything else is secondary.