He is not Kazan *SPOILERS* - Cube Zero (2005) Discussion

[–] agentJ8 18 years ago

They probably couldn't get the original actors from the first... one of them moved on to stargate sg 1. It's trying explain why Kazan knew the motive of the cube. It's saying that the people erased his memory, gave him a new name,and when they erased his memory it made him mentally challenged from a defect of that process they did. And he could still remember how to know if a room is trapped or not.

COME GET SOME!!!!
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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] agentJ8 18 years ago

David Hewlett(Worth) went on to stargate sg 1 . He got a lead role in the spinoff of of sg 1 called stargate atlantis.

COME GET SOME!!!!
Ash- Army of Darkness.

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[–] DustyGozongas 18 years ago

He's about the only one then...even so, Stargate? Ehhh...Can't say I even know anybody who watches that. Isn't that like a Star Trek ripoff or something?

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[–] agentJ8 18 years ago

I normally don't watch it, but i went to a friend's house and he had the sci-fi channel and noticed him,and it's nothing like star trek.

COME GET SOME!!!!
Ash- Army of Darkness.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] syx-1 17 years ago

I watch it! I really hate the character he plays, too - but it's written so that you feel that way :)

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[–] jaboulhosn 12 years ago

Your post may be six years ago but no, not a star trek ripoff. There are similarities between ST and SG of course, but the show is a different idea. There aren't space ships in human hands for a long time in the show and it ran for 15 consecutive years. It was also better than TOS, and much of TNG.

The show was based on reality - there is abundant evidence on Earth that we may have been host to a more advanced human civilization or alien civilization, which is what Stargate is based heavily upon. Obviously it's science fiction and takes liberties with some things but, no, better than Star Trek to be honest.

Which is not to say Star Trek is bad, much of it is great.

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[–] Kanten 18 years ago

I think it just shows that they give lobotomies to a lot of people before putting them into the cube.

And they all have a fascination with blue rooms?

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[–] DustyGozongas 18 years ago

Dunno..not a doctor so I don't exactly know how brain surgery works. It's not Kazaan though ..

I'm a ninja, b|tch.

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[–] DreamWarrior5 17 years ago

the director and writer of this movie, ernie something...(also co writer and prducer on 2) mentions in the commentary that he went back and used the exact same dialogue and blocking as in the first one, with hopes to get people to think it was Kazaan. He said he did this because he wanted this movie to tie into the first one. And if you dnt want Wynn to be Kazaan, then this is how Kazaan became Kazaan. But, the director intended it to be the same character.

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[–] stillvendetta 17 years ago

Kazaan in Cube is Wynn serving his second sentence.

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[–] mobilephone9 17 years ago

I usually always go with the director when the director tells the audience what he was trying to do, but there are so many holes to actually tie Wynn and Kazaan together and to prove that the people Wynn end up with are the same people in Cube Zero. And look at the big picture, the cube Wynn was in had circular doors not square like in the first. If the director was trying to tell the audience that Wynn had became Kazaan and was with the original people of cube, he did a poor poor job.

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[–] rmastrean 18 years ago

what about lawnmower man 1&2?

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[–] tbfalsename 18 years ago

Nicole de Boer was in the Family of Cops films, Star Trek DS9 and Stephen King's Dead Zone. Julian Richings was in, amongst others, Uban Legend, Kingdom Hospital and is in the new X-Men movie. David Hewlett has already been mentioned. The others I think have been stuck with bit parts in TV

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[–] mixmasterbrad2000 18 years ago

This is not a very complicated thing to figure out people, he is NOT Kazaan, but still himself. The commonality here is that he acts just like Kazaan did in the first cube, meaning that they do have a similar connection. What is this connection, well we saw that one of the "lab rats" who work there, got drawn into the cube and was able to escape, before getting caught, and then had his brain poked at, thus becoming mentally retarded like Kazaan did. So maybe between the "zero" movie, and the orginal, Kazaan worked there, got thrown into the cube like the guys from the "zero" movie, then escaped, got caught, then got his brain poked at, an blamo, the orginal Cube takes place. This is not hard to figure out people, and who cares about connecting to the orginal, they were just trying to explain why Kazaan was in the shape he was in, just as intelligent as the first pokey guy, forgot his name all of a sudden.....anyways, there ya go

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[–] Shelly-30 17 years ago

It was reported early on that they tried to get Andrew Miller--who played Kazan in Cube--to return for Cube Zero. He would've been in the Wynn role. Instead, Zach Bennett was cast.

That all said, I do agree that Wynn is NOT Kazan, that the final scene was an homage to the original.

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[–] jaricn 16 years ago

i heard they were trying to imply that wynn is in fact kazan, but there was some kind of copyright issue, so they were unable to make the dialogue and names exactly the same (originally they were planning to have wynn's name changed to kazan in the last scene). and they failed to gather all the old actors, so they decided to open another interpretation: that kazan used to be a technician too.

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[–] jaboulhosn 12 years ago

That's terrible. The movie was perfectly fine with Kazan being an idiot savant, a mentally disabled person who actually had some genius in him - this is not unrealistic and it happens in real life, which I'm sure you know about.

Making him recover from a memory wipe cheapens the original movie which was actually a good movie.

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[–] lgab 18 years ago

Using the same actor for Kazan would've been a total SPOILER right from the start of the movie, that would've sucked. I really like that idea that we now know the story of Kazan, but of course under a different name and looks for the sake of telling the story, without spoiling it all.

I say it IS the same person as in Cube.

Mandatory emoticon dispensed.DON'T PANIC

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[–] TheEnigmaticRonin 17 years ago

Dunno, but actually it pointless to have another handi-cap dude, and in the end the characters are toatlly different, but maybe it's just to do the movie more bizzare. Anyway, this movie was seriously crap, it answered the unanswered q's in the first movie (THAT'S NOT A GOOD THING") I didn't want to know what was outside of the cube, and what happends after the "the white room" it just fuc*ed up the orignal. Tragic

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[–] casueps 17 years ago

I second that. You can't make a "prequel where people wouldn't know that it is a prequel", so perhaps they took advantage of the fact that they couldn't have the same actors for "Zero" and make it like this so they don't know that they are the same character.

However there are many other possibilities about this.

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[–] haggar 16 years ago

Quote lgab: "Using the same actor for Kazan would've been a total SPOILER right from the start of the movie, that would've sucked. I really like that idea that we now know the story of Kazan, but of course under a different name and looks for the sake of telling the story, without spoiling it all.

I say it IS the same person as in Cube."

I think you are right, this is the most intelligent and the most likely reason.

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[–] Vitamin_Me 18 years ago

I believe he is, reason being is the mannerisms as well, the head guy said that he will live two sentences which is why when we frist saw him we saw different ppl. Also the guy before he gets the brain surgery loves gum balls.

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[–] 80sMovieNut 18 years ago

it's obvious that he IS Kazan, and the directors were obviously trying to allude that he is the same person from the original Cube.

Why?

1) the mannerisms are spot on (the finger tapping, head banging on the wall, the "blue room" comments, i mean come on!)
2) they are both mentally challenged, but also incredibly smart at the same time. wynn was able to see math equations in front of him, and Kazan was able to tell if any number was prime.

there were just some changes made to make things more interesting... after all, it IS just a movie.

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[–] gsl124 18 years ago

So if he is Kazan then that means he was still down there when they renovated the Cube between "Cube Zero" and "Cube"? (the doors and rooms were different)

Seems like a lot more time has passed between the 2 movies for that to be Kazan. He'd be dead.

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[–] fabmizz 17 years ago

The controlling dude (Wynn) say to the imprisoned guys that "rumors says that there are different cubes", so each movie could be set in a different cube. And anyway nothing can be sure about time leap from The Cube and Zero Cube, it sounds me like a "prequel" of the original movie... but no proofs about it :)

As for the Kazan, the two autistic men can be the same person in different bodies. I think this becouse they have a too similar behaviour (blu rooms, finger tapping, ecc) to be just casual, at the same time they both know a lot about the Cube, and, at the end, the Policeman says: "you are condamned to 2 other lives". And then a same kind of brain surgeon is made and a chip is planted.

What if, after being surgeoned and ending the cube again ("first" life), the same chip (with the personality of Wynn) would be replanted in Kazan, to make him spent his "second" life in the cube? This would explain mind similarities and phisical differences, besides the "2 other lives" stuff.

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[–] plaiddustbunny 17 years ago

Couldn't it just be that the chip in his head makes him act that way? It sends a signal to his brain telling him to tap his fingers, to focus only on blue rooms, and to bang his head on the wall when frustrated? Perhaps the chip is what makes him retarded, not the cutting into THAT part of his brain?

I don't think he's Kazan, because if he were, he would have had his name changed on the shirt. I think instead they're showing what happened to Kazan at some point between Zero and Cube, and that the retarded people are there to make things interesting (Kazan being able to factor, and Wynns ability to memorize moves through the cube/chess.) because even if the people make it out of the cube, they're going to be caught and killed anyway. So the observers might as well have fun with it - like the policeman was while toying with Wynn and Rain.

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[–] darian_zg 18 years ago

I just listened to directors audio commentary where he says that Wynn isn't Kazan and that he made that scene to explain why someone like Kazan would be put in cube

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[–] volkstuintje 18 years ago

Trivia
There was some controversy surrounding the final scenes of the film, in which Wynn shares similar dialogue to the autistic savant Kazan from the original Cube, which led some people to believe Wynn is actually Kazan. The director indicated that this theory does not reflect his own vision, and that the lobotomy that made Wynn autistic is assumed to have also happened to Kazan.

Source: Wikipedia

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[–] golgotha_cottage 17 years ago

Yeah this is pretty much what I figured. I think the fact that the woman who was talking to him was physically very different pointed to the fact that you weren't supposed to think it was Kazan.

They overdone it a bit though with the blue room thing.

Edit: Someone said on the audio commentry he says that Wynn is not Kazan. But, on wikipedia, it says different:

"The director's commentary for Cube Zero also states "Maybe this is Kazan or how Kazan came to be, making this much more of a prequel than a sequel."

So, in conclusion, it's Kazan if you want it to be Kazan.

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[–] BloodCage 18 years ago

Since watching the original cube i always wondered wat wouldv'e happened to Kazan once he got to the exit at the end, watching cube zero made me want to know more

anyone got any thoughts?

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[–] talk_nerdy2_me 18 years ago

He is not Kazan. What they're saying is that the REASON why KAZAN is handicapped is because he was in the same POSITION as Wynn. Kazan made it out of the Cube when he was "normal" and then they caught him, made him mentally handicapped in the same way that they made Wynn.

Jax even said that they wanted to give him some "modifications" which is why Kazan was so good at math. They put a chip in his brain to make him autistic just like they did to Wynn.

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[–] xlanciferx 18 years ago

but also in the film they said that there were rumored to be different cubes.... obviously this being a different one from the first

because also if he were kazan... kazan was more of a math genius with large numbers, as opposed to this cube which had letter codes instead of numbers

not to mention that whose to say the same technique for making these people mentally handicapped can't have the same side effects (such as maneurisms, and favorite room colors.... and whose to say different room colors didn't mean the difference between safe and trapped rooms, hence also why these 'mentally handicapped' people purposely prefer the known safe rooms)

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[–] mardypeking 18 years ago

In a 'Behind the movie' from the DVD I saw, the director, who looks retarded, says that it's not Kazan, but just an almost-word-to-word transcription of the scene from the original one. Kind of an homage. He changed a few things, like the finger tapping (it's not the same). It's a interesting way to see for which reason Kazan from the original one ended up in the Cube, he added.

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[–] ishamael888 17 years ago

Yes mardypeking, I concur that Wynn isn't Kazan, or rather Kazan isn't Wynn. This could sound a bit weird, but proving Kazan isn't Wynn is easier than the other way around, I think.

Remember all those drawings of regular people Wynn made? They were all superheroes in his drawings. Now look at the finger tapping again........ Do you all see? It is exactly what Spidey does when he shoots his webbing. This is not random, it is because of his liking for superhero types. It's just something that stuck from his past when he got his lobotomy. Now what is the finger tapping like that Kazan uses? I don't know, but there's no superhero I know that uses this 'technique'.

This seems to me proof enough that Kazan isn't Wynn, and consequently Wynn isn't Kazan either.

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[–] kingius 17 years ago

I think it *IS* Kazan.

The people who meet him aren't supposed to be the group from the first film. They are another bunch of people in there who I assume end up dead. Perhaps Wynn escapes or more likely he is removed before the Cube resets and incinerates him, then he is reinserted again for his second sentence - zoom to the first film.

This way, the Cube can be refurbished, new traps put in and Wynn reinserted as Kazan for this second sentence. They can even shave his head to give him some extra street cred ;)

This explains every conceivable objection to Wynn not being Kazan.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] kingius 17 years ago

The commentary says it is Kazan if you want it to be him, leaving it open.

So its not argument either way.

One thing that is though is that Wynn is a chess genius who can see the answers to problems in seconds, showing he has a very high intellect and because chess can be solved as mathematical permutation problem, the suggestion is also very clear from this aspect of his character that Wynn could also possibly solve very complex mathematical problems such as prime factors.

Ask yourself this, why would there be a link between Wynn and Kazan in the early drafts? There's no reason to put that link there unless he is supposed to be. I suspect his name was changed when they couldnt get the same actor to play the character.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] kingius 17 years ago

Yes I think we can both agree on that point.

My theory is that they couldnt get the actor involved in Cube Zero and so were forced to change his name, but instead of rewriting the script, the character was left in to add some mystery.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] www-kooga08 17 years ago

i disagree that wynn is kazan. couldnt it just be that , in the same way they mind controlled the black guy (i forgot his name), they could do that to both wynn and kazan. By making both wynn and kazn the act the same way, they could test out the other victims to see whether their behaviour varies.

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[–] vredesbyrd 17 years ago

Wait, so if the people who escape the cube are lobotomized, what happens to Kazan when he gets out? Does he get lobobtomized again?

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[–] golgotha_cottage 17 years ago

I'm guessing they ask him if he believes in God.

But either way, their test is done. Maybe they do another one. I doubt they let him out into the real world.

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[–] toxiemite 17 years ago

Wynn is deffinately NOT Kazan.

The reason for the final scene in which he says the same thing as Kazan from the original is purely so that we, as an audience, understand that Kazan was originally an employee. Simple.

Whatever idiot wondered why they didnt get the original actors back should consider that if they did, then this film would lack its eliment of surprise at the finale. Not to mention that Cube Zero takes place before the events of the original film.

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[–] frozendarkness 17 years ago

I'm ashamed to be in a thread full of such idiots.

If Wynn is Kazan, I will eat every camera used in the production of this film.

Seriously.

The scenes with Wynn at the end are clearly meant to show us the origin of Kazan without it actually being him. I can't believe some of you people actually believe "They just couldn't get the same actors!"

God, seriously...

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[–] toxiemite 17 years ago

KUDOS!!!!!!!!

At least someone else is on the same page!

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