Very sad tale


I read the novel after watching it on Masterpiece Theatre and it's a very sad story.

Mistaken jealousy that destroys lives. Though Louis takes the brunt of the blame, the Colonel is the agitator for it all and knows the damage he's doing, but continues to seek out Emily, destroying the happiness of so many people by planting the seeds.

No one is without fault, but everyone suffers terribly because of vanity, pride and honor, all from misunderstanding revolving around the Colonel's behavior.

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I agree that the Col. behaved abominably, but I really am disgusted that Louis wouldn't believe his own wife.

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He said from the very beginning to the very end that he didn't believe that she had been unfaithful him, but the fact that despite his objections, she continued to receive the Colonel and refused to stop was what he considered betrayl. I mean if you knew that a man had ruined marriages before, was visting your wife everyday and using her Christian name in letters, especially back in those days, you can understand how the seeds of jealousy and insecurity can fester and explode.

Using her first name in Victorian times would be the equivelent of saying Dear Sweetheart or Dear Lover in today's world. Don't forget the rigid society that this is based in.

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Yes, I understand about the Victorian social proprieties. But in the mini series it came off that Louis did believe that Emily had been unfaithful to him, despite her protests to the contrary. It may be portrayed slightly differently in the book, but the mini series made it seem that Louis did, in fact, believe that Emily had "wronged" him with the Col.

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It's the same in the series as in the book that he kissed her fingers while dying to say he believed her, in the book he says some words which we don't get told, but fully acquitted her with his last whispers.

Trollope didn't even like the book, but I think it deals with an issue that is very relevant and that's small jealousy that is provoked and ends so many relationships.

To me, I can understand both sides. Emily didn't do anything wrong with the Colonel in terms of being unfaithful in any way, as we know and never intended to. She didn't know about his ill intentions like Louis or anyone reading the book would and one can't blame her for being so determined to not own up to something that she didn't see as wrong.

That being said, when a husband tells his wife or vice-versa that they don't want them being too familiar with a person of the opposite sex that isn't a direct relative, they should adhere to their spouses wishes. Emily looked to provoke Louis in the book much more than in the movie. That being said, Louis should have simply said in a tender tone that while he trusted her completely, it didn't look good in society for the Colonel to be visiting everyday or using her first name. In the series they didn't point it out, but the Colonel hadn't talked to her in over twenty years before she came back with Louis, hardly her oldest and dearest friend.

I didn't think he should have had Louis dying at the end, but the thing I really didn't like was how easily Colonel Osbourne got off. I mean he even remained friends with the family after all was said in done. I think Trollope should have definently had him fall out of favor with Emily and have made her able to see his meddling for what it was. Maybe that's one of the big reasons Trollope didn't like the novel after the fact.

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i thinkl she wasn't lisenting to her husband as at that period there was a lot of women fighting for what they believe aka the sufferegete movement, by resisting her husbands orders she's also becoming more independent, which she finds has a price

Thunderbirds Aren't Slow

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Whatever the rights of the argument re fidelity - assumed, presumed or otherwise - as its depicted in the novel and in the tv series, I thought the biggest shame about this was the weakness of the chap who played Louis, Oliver Dimsdale. He was completely outclassed by everyone else in the piece, IMHO. It was quite embarrassing watching him at times. He went from Emotional Position A to Emotional Position Z with tragically few stops in between. He looked the part - no mistake about that - but he lacked the acting range and enough variety of skills to carry off what is a pretty challenging characterisation. I could not ever believe that Laura Fraser - a very skilful and watchable actor - would ever fall in love with him and marry him. [Had I been her, I would have stood out against his stupid shortsighted morality too!!!] This was a case, imo, of the casting directors getting something very important very fundamentally wrong. I wondered for a while if what Louis had was a serious psychological disorder but, even allowing this to be the case, the acting needed many more demonstrations of light and shade to make the character credible.

The best parts about HKHWW - totally IMHO - were David Tennant - who cleverly steered a course away from making Mr Gibson, the clergyman, a total buffoon, and made him a much more complex, believable person; and Bill Nighy's acting tics worked really well in this show, although, imo, he was a bit too old to be regarded as a threat to a marriage, no matter how his reputation preceded him.

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[deleted]

i thinkl she wasn't lisenting to her husband as at that period there was a lot of women fighting for what they believe aka the sufferegete movement, by resisting her husbands orders she's also becoming more independent, which she finds has a price


I didn't see that aspect as relevant at all. The series clearly depicted that she had been raised far away from English society and had been raised as a free thinker and independent person (very much like her father). Her mother also noted that she liked to have her own way. Her mother was concerned at the time of her engagement to Louis that this might be a problem for them, since she felt that Louis also liked to have his own way, and both he and Emily were very stubborn.

I do agree with you, though, that Emily's decision did have a price. While she felt justified (and rightly so) in maintaining her position and refusing to apologize for something which she had not done, she had to pay a high price for it.

But I don't see it as her merely wanting to assert herself and go against her husband's wishes because she was a suffragist, or had been influenced by the suffragist movement. Quite simply, she had been raised to be independent and to stick up for herself; she was not the kind of woman who could admit that she had done something wrong when clearly, she hadn't.

Furthermore, sEmily was naive to the societal consequences of her actions and the effects they would have on her husband. She really didn't understand how easily a woman's reputation could be ruined and the consequences this would bring.

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"Furthermore, Emily was naive to the societal consequences of her actions and the effects they would have on her husband. She really didn't understand how easily a woman's reputation could be ruined and the consequences this would bring."

Absolutely. I don't know when this story was set, but think about the times back then-1870s?. Emily's family socialized among the elite because of her father's diplomatic position. There were still strict rules about behavior which Emily ignored. Her actions wouldn't have had consequences just for her husband but for her father as well. And no doubt, Louis grew up in a social setting where men and women were expected to act in certain ways. Louis might have been a bit neurotic but Emily's behavior can't be excused either.

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I didn't think he should have had Louis dying at the end, but the thing I really didn't like was how easily Colonel Osbourne got off. I mean he even remained friends with the family after all was said in done. I think Trollope should have definently had him fall out of favor with Emily and have made her able to see his meddling for what it was. Maybe that's one of the big reasons Trollope didn't like the novel after the fact.


Trollope might not have liked that about it, but I sure did because I found it rather realistic. Not all families react in an appropriate manner... Plus, it gave it an unpredictable edge. In the beginning, I pretty much thought that the Colonel would have been challenged to a duel, or axed from the family's social circle for sure, and everything would turn out just peachy. I think Trollope gave the story extra strength by ending it as he did.

Edit: By the way, excellent casting choice for little Louis. Spitting image of his on-screen Dad.

Stupidity is the basic building block of the universe.~Frank Zappa

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In the television version Louis is clearly insane;if it had not been the colonel, he would have been jealous of someone else to the point of madness. Emily and the colonel do not behave flawlessly--especially the colonel--but Louis is insane and could not handle ordinary life. It's a sad tale but one that rings psychologically true.

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In the television version Louis is clearly insane;if it had not been the colonel, he would have been jealous of someone else to the point of madness.
Trollope had used this theme before, too. Remember in 'The Pallisers', Mr. Kennedy goes insane with jealousy over his wife's friendship with Phineas Finn. She's innocent of infidelity, but she's not blameless - obviously she's attracted to Phineas (really, she's in love with him), and she won't give up his company even when her husband insists. I also feel that he was the sort of man who'd have gone on to suspect her with some other man, even if Finn were out of the way - he was just unstable. But there was blame on both sides.

Flat, drab passion meanders across the screen!

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I have to confess I didn't read the novel, though I enjoyed the mini-series immensely.

The screenplay did a good job of laying bare people's various obsessions and neuroses. Look at the lot of them: Aunt Stanbury, the French sisters, Louis. At least Aunt Stanbury, though still appearing a little dotty, is able to recognize her mistakes and rectify them before hurting someone she truly loves.

Louis has all the traits of someone who is unable to recognize boundaries. Though not a bad man, he is a sort of abuser, attempting to monitor and control his wife's behavior. Though such domination was acceptable in the Victorian era, and of course rules for decorum were much, much stricter than they are today, Louis is still clearly someone who has lost his grip on reality.

It is fair to say that Emily's temperament and behavior exacerbated the situation, and that the colonel was given to provocative behavior. But the tragedy could never unfold as it did without Louis's obsession.

First rule of movie-going: never confuse the actor with his role.

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I just finished watching this mini series today and I guess the intent is that we should feel that Louis is a raving jealous lunatic and Emily is as innocent as a new born baby. That was not at all what I got from this. I have not read the book so I cannot say what happens there but in the miniseries, Emily is no innocent bystander. I feel that she very much instigated the situation, though unknowningly. Col. Osbourne seemed to me a lecherous old man who would manipulate situations and circumstances simply for his own amusement. Why I ask should a man call on his so called god daughter almost everyday? What is so important that he needed to visit so often? Even a biological parent would not visit that much, it was absolutely ridiculous. Yes, Emily was raised away from England and may not have realized the talk that her actions, by allowing Osbourne to visit so much, would create, but when she realized both by her husband telling her and in associating with other ladies at court, she should have realized the gravity of her actions. I find it hard to believe she was that oblivious. If she was then she was the worst kind of simpleton. Also I have no idea why everyone sees this as some sort of feminist struggle. I failed to see that at all, seeing it more as people being stubborn and not valuing their love for each other enough. As to the arguement that he should have just taken her word for it when she said she was faithful to him, please remember that back then, people married on very little aquintance. He had only been married to her for about a year when all this nonsense began, so he had not known enough of her character to just take her at her word. Also please remember that Col Osbourne was known to have almost caused the break up of a marriage before and the man had to move his family away from the country in order to escape Osbourne and his predatory behavior. Therefore Louis's fears or concerns were not unfounded.

Also the claim that Louis would have still be jealous over someone else is unsubstantiated. Where is the evidence of this? If he had shown earlier tendencies then I certainly did not see it in the movie. If he had a pattern of telling her who she could and could not associate with, then I would buy that arguement. To me it really seemed like this was one of the few things that he had ever asked her for, why not just acquiesce to keep the peace and show your husband you trust his judgement.

Louis's biggest problem was that he failed to really understand the woman he married. Like many men, he saw certain personality traits in Emily and thought those traits were "exotic" or "cute" (in that condescending sort of way). But he did not understand how different she was from most English women raised in England. He paid dearly for his mistake because though they were very happy in the beginning, her so called free spirit would eventually create this situation. The whole situation reminds me of something a married friend told me a long time ago, "Many times in marriage/relationships, one person may start out being wrong but the other person's reactions and responses many times make them just as wrong as the offender". This is exactly what happened here. Louis was so incensed by what he saw as Emily's betrayal that he went overboard. I certainly believe that there was an inherent weakness in his personality that allowed him to become that obssessed with the situation. If he has asked her , commanded her and pleaded with her to not see Col. Osbourne and she persisted, the next step should have been to divorce her and be done with the mess. He ran himself ragged for no reason whatsoever. In my opinion, it was not worth it.

All in all I liked Emily but I felt that she did not respect her husband and did not really understand what marriage entailed. She thought she could always get her way and that was her undoing. She stuck to her guns and at the end of the day, what did she gain? Absolutely nothing. She still ended up without the man she loved. As for Louis, he is a shinning example that jealous never did anyone any good.

By the end of the whole thing, though I liked the miniseries, I found that the main characters annoyed me more than anything and I was rooting more for Dolly and Brooke. I wish they had been the main characters. I even found myself more interested in the French girls and crazy Gibson. Nora and Stanburg's romance was...I lack the words. Lets just say that I wanted them to get together on the general principle of it but not because I really cared. They both lacked a certain chemistry. Infact thinking about it, I think the biggest problem with them was that they acted like the knew they were a supporting act. Let me explain...most characters in movies/books/miniseries who are supporting casts go about their business like they are the main characters because its their life and to them, they are the main character. It is only us the viewer/reader that realizes that they are the supporting cast. But in Nora and her beau, you got the sense that they knew that they were just there to move the story along.

And don't even get me started on those American women. They were caricatures of God knows what. I foud them to be painfully annoying and I was beyond pleased that they were miniscule characters. I am an American and I kept trying to stuff my ear with cotton everytime they spoke.

Anyway that's my opinion.

PS: I am a woman so no one think this is some man trying to stand up for men everywhere.

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I agree with ifeoma 6 - when Louis first warned Emily, he did have a point: Osborne has a reputation for stirring trouble in marriages, and Emily's reception of him - however innocent on her part - was causing tongues to wag. If Emily had tried to 'protect' herself, by only receiving Osborne in company for instance, then there would have been no more gossip to worry Louis. I think she made it much worse by digging her heels in, although I can quite understand why, and if she was ready to acquiesce later on - when Louis insisted she let him see his son - why couldn't she back down earlier? Osborne wasn't even worth fighting over! She insisted on continuing their relationship just because Louis told her she shouldn't, and made him even worse - won the battle, but lost the war. Emily misjudged Louis, and thought he would let her do as she pleased, much as she had with her parents, because he loved her - but his illness pitched him over the edge.

"Tony, if you talk that rubbish, I shall be forced to punch your head" - Lord Tony's Wife, Orczy

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I agree that knowing how it would end, Emily should have backed down much earlier, but she's clearly a stubborn person, and if I were in that position, I'm not sure I would have acted any differently. Also, I don't think we can apply the rules of what Emily should have done, because I don't think Louis was in his right mind, in which case she can't have dealt with him like a normal person. Her reactions were flawed, but normal and sane. His were clearly the result of a weak mind. What was Emily meant to do about that?

In the beginning, things could have been easier if Louis hadn't confronted her all at once. Even Louis seems to say in the beginning, when he first confronts Emily that he went about it the wrong way, doesn't he mutter about something? Basically they both were tactless in the beginning, and Louis went too far.

I also think that particularly in the beginning she didn't know how to possibly stop seeing the Colonel without making it a scandal. When she leaves conversation with the Colonel in the park, Louis chastises her for making a scene, and how everyone will know, and she responds that she can't do anything right. She had no lessons on social nuances. Running in the same social circles and not seeing the Colonel without attracting rumors would have required a great deal of social skill, and I think Emily was frustrated because she didn't know how to extricate herself from the situation.

Think of what he tells Emily when he finds the letter. He doesn't believe that she will be able to resist the seduction of the Colonel unless she is watched day and night to be kept from him. At this point he seems pretty sane, but I don't think that comment would make Emily think she had any reason to hope that if she promised not to see the Colonel that this might not happen again. He basically said that he didn't trust her to resist seduction, and the only way he believed she would stay faithful was if no man tried.

Further on, every time he asked for her promise after they were separated, she said he shouldn't have to ask for it. I take this to mean that by this point she realized what this was doing to them both and would keep herself away from the Colonel, but the fact that Louis continues to press on her for the promise made her see that it was hopeless, because he didn't trust her. For example, when she apologizes and promises in the cottage in the country, he doesn't believe her, he's completely paranoid at this point.

And Bosil didn't do any good in the beginning. Just because the Colonel was able to get into the door of her uncle's house gave absolutely no indication whether he spoke to Emily or not. But Bosil was paid to spy on a cheating wife, so he painted that picture. If anything, I think the Colonel and Bosil (in the beginning) should take the brunt of the blame of putting the idea into Louis' head. Emily did nothing that would have prevented a reconciliation with a man in his full senses.

Why should Emily have trusted her husband's judgement after one year of marriage, but he shouldn't trust that she would be faithful? Why is it unsubstantiated to say he wouldn't have done this with another man because we don't see it, but from what we see Emily's promise seems to be all he asks of her? These seem to me to be two examples where more is expected from Emily that from Louis, unfairly.

In the end, it is such a sad story, because Louis is sick, and in the end I think he realizes that he is, and what it has caused. He isn't to blame, although during much of the miniseries I hated him for what he was doing, I cried when he died. I think Louis was a weak-minded person whom jealousy and fear could consume beyond all reason, and society's murmurings and rules about propriety gave him leeway to think the worst, and the law gave him the power to do his worst because of it. That's where the blame was to me, the system that allowed rumors to destroy things. Even in the subplots, it's the views of others which nearly bring everything crashing down.

Wow, really long post. But I loved the miniseries. And now I want to read all the dozens of Trollope novels out there!

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Since we are picking sides, here's how I spread the blame.

Emily: For continuing to see Colonel Osborne after her husband clearly said it bugged him and asked her to stop. It may have been a temporary visit stoppage while she calmed him. She could still exchange letters or see the Colonel in public places like at parties. After all marriage is compromise and she'd expect the same if the shoe was on the other foot. Instead she turned things into a battle of wills. Was continuing to have private visits with the Colonel really worth getting on her husband's bad side and getting a bad reputation?

Her excuse that Louis would have found something other than Col. Osborne to obsess on is passing the blame. There was nothing else he cared enough about that we saw.


Colonel Osborne: For ignoring the fact Emily was now a grown up lady, not a little girl. Surely he understood how much damage visiting a young married woman alone would do. The relationship he had with Emily while she was growing up is irrelevant. Things changed, so should he. Instead, he liked the ego trip of their visits.

Louis: For turning into a fruitloop caused by jealousy and paranoia. True your wife disrespected you and made you an object of gossip but no reason to kidnap your son. Could have worked harder to find ways to get your wife to cut off her private Colonel Osborne visits without ultimatums. Pushing so hard made things worse.

Victorian Society: For tying men's masculinity to their ability to control their wives. Louis felt he had no option to being ignored but to go mad. Not many choices from his point of view.






No two persons ever watch the same movie.

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Great analyses people. One of the saddest films I've seen in a long time. The portrayals were all superb, and I especially liked the two nutty sisters and their mother, the minister, and Col. Osborne who all brought some comic relief, thank goodness. I'm a big fan of Billy Nighy and he never fails to deliver, however subtly.

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I fully agree with devan's idea that there are multiple players involved in the unraveling of this marriage. I do think that's what Trollepe (and Andrew Davis as screenwriter) were getting at - that a person's missteps and flaws, whether justifiable or not, can contribute to a situation way beyond what was intended or imagined. This makes the story much more tragic. I am surprised that no one has brought up Bozzle's role. He fed Louis' paranoia, quite deliberately at first (probably motivated by keeping the case alive so as to continue to make a profit) and only backed down when he saw Louis' mental deterioration and heard his wife's continued pleas for reason. Had Bozzle not been around, Louis' jealousy might have died out sooner.

Anyway, great show, was even better the 2nd time around!

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Your description of the situation is very Shakespearean, nklayman-1.

The way you describe Mr Bozzle reminds me of the Othello, the tragedy Moor of Venice by William Shakespeare.

Othello - Louis Trevelyan
Desdemona - Emily Trevelyan
Iago - Mr Bozzle

Maybe He Knew He Was Right is kind of an adaptation of that play. The basic relationships applied by Anthony Trollope to the Victorian period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Othello


ADDED

After poking around Wikipedia, I see that the book WAS directly influenced by Othello. Well, you can certainly tell.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_Knew_He_Was_Right




No two persons ever watch the same movie.

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I just wanted to add, watching this again, that Louis wasn't quite fair to Emily in his wanting her to act 'as befits my wife'. He was told straight up that she would have no idea of how she was expected to behave in society. He thought it was funny when she couldn't curtsey, but when she doesn't know how to handle an extremely delicate situation.

Basically, the one person who saw clearly what was happening and was in full control of stopping it was the Colonel. Louis had issues in his mind, and Emily was stubborn and had no idea how to deal with any of the society stuff. The Colonel alone knew exactly what buttons he was pushing and knowingly continued to do so.

I know this is weird, but is anyone else totally reminded of 'Friends', with Ross, Rachel and Mark?

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