MovieChat Forums > Proof (2005) Discussion > List of Math Things I Have Yet to Use

List of Math Things I Have Yet to Use

posted 15 years ago by ingemund
27 replies | jump to latest

I thought the "use of math" thread below was interesting, I decided to make a list of math things I have yet to use. Up to high school I had more or less a typical American high school education (Geometry/Algebra/Trig/Calc) and in university I studied law (so pretty much no math).

Yes, we all know we need to calculate our retirement plans, the dimensions of prospective furniture, ppm in the weather... but when should I have to dig out my old math textbooks (I still have them, just in case) to use these?

1. Vectors. They made us learn them, know only vaguely they're used in engineering and calculating some kind of dynamics... how can I use them "in real life"?

2. Anything trig. For me, trigonometry was harder than anything else I had to learn in math, of course I didn't have a good teacher that year. But I did learn it, so when can I use it? When someone says radian these days, I assume it's a French person saying I look shiny.

3. Calculus. I do invest my money but I never get to the point of having to calculate the slope of something or integrate something. We once had an assignment in high school where we had to calculate the different amount of water running over an underwater propeller - that was really neat - it got me a taste of how useful calculus was. But I've never used it since.

(edit) 4. Limits.

I think learning something for its own sake is a good thing, and I'm glad I got to learn as much math as I did... I can agree that it made me a more rational and smarter person, and that in itself is meaningful enough for me, especially speaking from this side of my exams :) But can these skills be used in "real life" as they are?

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] MuchToBeGratefulFor 15 years ago

The closest I ever come to math is balancing my bankbook, doing my taxes, and making sure that my publishers are paying me my correct fees.

Well, there are a lot of people who cannot do those things, to their detriment.

One thing I use math a lot for is when I am at the store. I mentally calculate what the total should be. Not to the penny, but ballpark, which is enough to have caught times when they overcharged me, because I could tell that the total was way off what it should be.

To the OP: I have a graduate degree in math and have never taken an integral or the other things you mention since graduating. But I think math is very valuable, because really what you were learning when you took those classes, is how to think, how to work through a problem.

Really, a lot of problems in life are like word problems in math. You have something you are trying to decide or figure out, and you have to figure out what data you have that you need (or if you don't have it, you have to figure out how to get it), what information you have that is irrelevant, set up the mathematical problem to solve, and solve it. The hardest part is setting up the problem, not solving it.

You must be the change you seek in the world. -- Gandhi

[–] ingemund 15 years ago

"The hardest part is setting up the problem, not solving it."

Definitely my thought for the day! Thanks :)

[–] gm_corsica 15 years ago

Are you really asking if math can be used in real life?

To make this quick i'll just use one simple example. Satillites.

How do you think the scientists calculate how to get these into orbit around the Earth? They use math. They use it all day every day. It's their "real life".

Just because you don't need math in your life doesn't mean people shouldn't learn it. We need to prepare our children to become scientists. We shouldn't just teach people the bare basics just to get through life.

Why even teach them any history at all. They can be a Burger king worker without knowing any history.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] KAnnD86 15 years ago

I agree with all 4. I don't really use any math learned after 7th grade. Basically algebra is the most you need (in general). I knit and occasionally it requires math like long division, proportions, basic geometry. Of course they should continue to teach math in school, but realistically, most of it is never used in real life.

Tomorrow's just your future yesterday!

[–] nutty_pistachio 15 years ago

I'm sure there are much more useful or interesting subjects to teach, especially in primary school. Once you start to specialise I understand the need for a great amount of detail, but some of the stuff they teach early on is ridiculous and kids know it, so they don't bother trying. Not just in maths, but in other subjects like science or languages.
After years of tearing my hair out and feeling like a complete dunce in maths class, I got a C in my Maths GCSE. I think if it had been more accessible and better communincated I could've got a much better mark. I also would've enjoyed it rather than spent all my time stressed over it!

[–] bob_u235 15 years ago

I'm studying applied math in grad school, but that's because it's what I want to do for a living. As you have demonstrated, there are plenty of applications in engineering/science/etc, and these are what you use the things you've learned for.

You're right, though. Very little of it is used in everyday life. The idea of teaching it to kids, though, is that we don't trust kids (and rightfully so) to know what they want to do with their lives so early on. If they do eventually decide they want to go into a field involving math, we don't want to make them take years of algebra, trig, and other basic stuff for years before they can even look at specific problems in their field of choice.

Math helps to teach precision thinking, and is the main ingredient in anything where quantities (measurements) matter. It seems to me that it would be a sham to teach science and omit math... you'd be skipping the core investigative techniques of science, and just giving the philosophy (and which, if I remember correctly, I didn't learn any philosophy in grade school). And if you omit science, too, then we'll give rise to a generation of starving artists, "tortured souls", "wanderers in a malevolent universe". People who won't understand anything but will complain about it. :)

It may be sad to realize one is not using things they invested a lot of time in studying. I don't know how I'd deal with that. Fortunately, it's not my problem.

Not even sure why I even wrote this. Thread's been dead for a while. :P

[–] Ichabod_Fletchman 15 years ago

Derivatives and limits: never going to use them.

Bender: I was God once.
God: Yes, I saw. You were doing well until everyone died.

[–] ingemund 14 years ago

I like that explanation. About kids not knowing what they'll want in the future so preparing them for it. And I'm sure I use some of that stuff in any thinking I do, whether consciously or not.

I'm not sorry I learned all of that in school. :) Was just curious as to what some people did with it. Good luck with geeting your grad degree! People who study math are always awe-inspiring to me.

[–] tsnake 14 years ago

I've actually used some limits and basic calc in some web programming in the past.

Recursive routines and series as well.

I had forgotten much geometry conjecture until I started teaching HS Geometry this past semester. Good timing, as I'm designing a hexagonal gaming table and want more precise measurements and wanted to determine the width from center to flat side (apothem) instead of the commonly (I saw in woodworking books) method of opposite diagonal (diameter) distance (which is EASY). Just remembering the 30-60-90 triangle conjecture has given me as precise as I can get (square root of 3 isn't precise for measuring).

Am I over thinking it? Perhaps... and perhaps a little over thinking (which I believe my math education has instilled in me) is much better than the modern methods of not thinking at all - like many of my students practice.

Truthfully, regular people will not use calculus or most trig ever again. Algebra and geometry are extremely useful if you dabble in electronics or being artistic or crafty.

Combinatorics was downright exciting and linear algebra made me angry I didn't know it when I was trying to balance chemistry equations. Without linear algebra, there wouldn't likely be 3D gaming.

How's this for keeping an old thread alive? :)

[–] metalblaster 14 years ago

I use math every single day of my life. Everything from Calculus and Trig, Set theory and Group theory, Geometry and Logic... To me math is like a language, one more efficient and objective than any other spoken or written language and even better, I can constantly push the boundaries of this language and find absolution in it if need be. I am not a Mathematician but I am a scientist. I have to say, to not teach math would be an injustice. Math is so logical, So rational and so much more real than anything else. Its the ultimate Abstraction and with out it we would not have technology, science, or logic. You can solve any problem with math if you know how to use it. Thats the absolute beauty of it.

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] rroach50 14 years ago

beflin wrote,

"As you go towards successive inner circles, you progress from those who use low-level math - such as basic addition and subtraction, say, by cashiers - to engineers, non-physical scientists, actuaries - to the inner circle of computer programmers and physicists - finally to the innermost circle of those doing the hardest and most abstract proof - mathematicians."

I certainly wouldn't put computer programmers in the same circle with physicists or even engineers as far as daily users of so-called higher math. The computer programmers, aka software engineers, I know almost never use math in their work even though one of the requirements for their jobs is having at least a Bachelor of Computer Science. This degree, of course, has a heavy course load of calc and diff in the first 2 years. Considering the minimal use of math in the jobs of most computer programmers, I once asked a division head why the company didn't consider people with less math education to which he responded that hiring people with higher math college credits got the business employees with better minds.

[–] light_of_the_world 14 years ago

Hey Ingemund. This may be a year and a half down the road, but I'd figure I'd comment anyway.

Like a lot of things, how you use math in real life really comes down to how much you choose to use math in real life. Somebody who "thinks in math" simply might enhance some activities with the math they learned, even if sometimes it seems to be pushed to the subconscious. Here are some examples from sport.

1. Vectors (I'm assuming you mean geometric vectors) play heavily into Newtonian physics (force, momentum, inertia, etc) and really give a great way of visualizing forces or other physical properties.

I subconsciously use vectors when I play pool. I know that when the cue ball collides with say the 8-ball, the law of conservation of momentum tells me that on impact the cue ball will accelerate along the vector originating from the 8-ball and passing through the centre of the cue ball. If I hit it dead on, the cue ball will stop dead since it will accelerate completely backwards to its original direction. This helps predict the path of both the 8-ball and the cue ball (preventing a nasty scratch!)

2. Trigonometry

I won't try to throw seafaring in your face, but trigonometry, or more generally an understanding of the properties of geometry (triangles especially) can be useful for reasoning about distances, etc.

One good example is from bocce ball (lawn bowling, curling; anything where you measure score by what object is closer to some goal). When you get two bocce balls that are far from each other but seem equally close to the target ball, your first instinct is to measure with your feet or a tape measure. But there's actually a better way to eyeball the distance.

Say you had this scenario:

T

B
A

Next time draw an imaginary line from A to B, and then a perpendicular line originating from T. If the intersection is closer to A, A is closer to T.

This seems needlessly complex, but I promise that you will be surprised at how much better we are at naturally eyeballing right angles than comparing distances with no context.

3. Calculus.

How many laps can your race car do before stopping to refuel? Fuel consumption is a function of the speed of your car (that's why the EPA has a "highway mileage" and a "city mileage") and your total consumption in a lap on a race track will be related to the integral of the speeds you achieve as you go around the track.

4. Limits

Hey, I'll be the first to admit that limits don't seem to have a strict purpose in real life. They're a basis for reasoning about things, but that doesn't have to make them formal.

Often it is useful to evaluate some dubious claim or correlation by "taking it to the limit".

I could only think of a positive example off the top of my head, but say somebody says to you "it's always better to have less time remaining in the game when we're ahead". That's something you easily logically prove to yourself by taking it to the limit. Obviously it's true; as the "time left" approaches zero, the probability of you winning approaches 100% (since if the game ended this instant; we'd win since we're ahead).