the 'scene' with david and rose *spoilers* - Sexual Life (2004) Discussion

[–] PTUTSON 18 years ago

That's a very interesting question, which I don't have the answer to. But, it's a very valid question which I never even thought of. Oh and I thought the scene was pretty damn hot (I'm also a black female attracted to white men).

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[–] eemerson 18 years ago

I was one of only four or five non-actors in the room during that scene. Without asking Mr. Kwapis directly, I'd say that it had to do with both the way he intended to portray those characters, and the actors' willingness to do the scene in the nude. (Mr. Bailey was covered by a sock actually.)

The relationship between Ms. Washington's and Mr. Bailey's characters was the most passionate....the most primal. And was reflected in part by (as far as the audience can tell) their being completely nude in one another's company. I honestly think the black / white issue had less to do with the nude scene itself than with the degree of the (forbidden?) passion between the two characters.

As I recall, the only other actor willing to appear (at least partially) nude was Ms. Heche. But her character wasn't nearly as fiery as Ms. Washington's. She wasn't a tormentor. In fact, during the first two or three takes of a sequence in bed with Mr. LeGros' character...where he's hoping his hickey is masked...her loose-fitting nightie fell aside, exposing her breast. Casual nudity...perfectly normal for a real-life couple, right? But Mr. Kwapis didn't wish that nudity to be confused with titillation, so an adjustment was made to the costume to prevent exposure.

Ms. Banks and Ms. Skye were unwilling to appear nude. Adjustments were made so that their nudity is implied. You can actually see tape covering Ms. Banks' breast during her scene in bed with Mr. Scott. We actually spend a lot of time trying to hide that tape, but ultimately we had to live with it and move on.

Hope that helps......just personal opinion though.....

btw, I'm a white male attracted to women of all races....

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] EternalSunshine7320 18 years ago

"modesty sock"... lol... that's great. Anyway, I also thought this scene was very well done. And David and Rose were a very passionate couple, so it fits for me. I admire directors who do not shy away from the explicit, and actors who make the scene very real. I was actually just on the discussion board for the movie Exotica, which I watched the same night as this movie. I was mentioning that I thought the director of that movie shyed away from the nudity too much. The stripping scenes were very sexy/erotic, especially if you like Mia Kirshner, but it's a movie set in a strip club... go all the way, ya know? Anyway, Sexual Life is an enjoyable movie. I would recommend it. I would also recommend Exotica if you haven't seen it. A good movie.

"Talk hard!"

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[–] tmerc4 18 years ago

EEMERSON:

While I understand your trying to make this scene simply between two people, and not about race, I have to ask the question: Why is this scene the one with the "primal" bend to it?
Why couldn't this scene be the one with the tender, erotic approach, and let two white actors do the "primal" bit?
This is what I've always objected to when to comes to sexual portrayls in Hollywood. African-Americans are almost always seen as "gettin'down!" while whites always seem to be "making love".
The other question I have has to do with gender and race. It would have been interesting to see if this portrayal of sexual abandon would have been so explicit if it had been a blonde, blue-eyed white woman, with a handsome African-American male as her lover. Does the scene play as explicitly if Anne Heche is in bed with, say, Blair Underwood, Morris Chestnut, or Taye Diggs?
Do we see her naked in bed, legs wrapped around the waist of one of these African-American men, passionately begging them not to stop thrusting into her?
Interesting, hmm? Let's see you deal with THAT "forbidden passion"!

Afro-Canuck

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[–] preacher_no2 17 years ago

Um i think African American's rather portray themselves as overly excited beast you just to have watch any of their comedy show or listen to Rap and r + b Lets not be in denial. Now that dosen't mean that the African American population is like that but it's how the people in the forefront, rapper actors e.t.c are portraying African Americans.

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[–] tmerc4 18 years ago

Badgirle:

I really like some of your points about the scene between Rose and David. I'm a Black male, but I have no problem with your, or any other Black female's, attraction to White men. To each their own, and that makes for a better world. But I'm glad you asked the question about why this scene was so graphic, while others weren't.
I've often wondered this when I see portrayals of Black-White sex, most often when it involves a White male, and Black female. It's almost as though someone (the producer, director or writer?) is fulfilling some kind of fantasy.
Anyway, check out my reply to EEMERSON's reply to this e-mail, you might find it interesting.

Afro-Canuck

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[–] UthaSideR 18 years ago

See, I think that's whats wrong with society today... everybody is always looking for a racial or sexist motive for how things are. I agree that there are alot of stereotypes for all races and ethnic backgrounds betrayed by the media as well as Hollywood... but come on. I seriously doubt that the creators of this movie were bent on making blacks seem "primal" or "fullfilling a fantasy". I'm a white guy that has been with women from all different walks of life, many different races and cultures (white, black, hispanic, jewish, catholic, christian, atheist, whatever..) and I dont understand why, when we see two people from different races in a sex scene, we automatically start analyzing every aspect of it, trying to find some sort of racism involved. There are PLENTY of movies where white people have very VERY "primal", dirty sex. Check out the movie BODY SHOTS, REQUIEM FOR A DREAM, or even the movie FIGHT CLUB for that matter. There are white folks banging the hell out of each other in those movies and I don't start wondering if the director thinks all white folks are "animalistic" or "primal" or anything like that. Sex is sex. White woman have sex the same way black women do, the same way hispanic women do, the same way EVERY woman does. If we stop trying to blame everything on racism and instead start looking at everybody as equals... alot of this black/white/brown/yellow/red skinned stereotypes maybe someday can subside. But what do I know?

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[–] tmerc4 17 years ago

UthaSideR:

That's a nice "sit on the side of a hill and share a Coke with people of all races" fantasy, but unfortunately, we don't live in a fantasy. Race enters into every aspect of everyday life, especially if you're a member of the race that is being portrayed negatively or incorrectly. When I see a major White, female Hollywood star having sex on film the way Halle Berry did with Billy Bob Thornton, and then getting all kinds of kudos and picking up an Oscar for it, then I'll know things are changing for the better. It doesn't matter that you're tired of racial politics entering into the question, because like it or not, RACE MATTERS! Always has, always will. I didn't make this society the way it is, but I have to look at it realistically to navigate my way in it. I can't help but ask these questions, because they reflect my everyday experiences as a Black man in Western society. I would love to see a day when it isn't necessary to point out stereotypes, and question the sexual and racial politics of film-making, and the media in general. But that day isn't here, and I won't stop asking the questions and making the comments until I feel it is.
Hope you understand, but if you don't, that's not my problem.

AfroCanuck

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[–] UthaSideR 17 years ago

Tmerc,

I understand your point. And YES, there IS a *beep* of racism in our culture and our everyday way of life. And maybe you are right about this scene, maybe it is being stereotypical... maybe not. I just hope that not every movie is scrutinized and dissected in order to find a racial motive behind it... or else those who are racist and throwing it in the film to *beep* with you are winning. I hope we can learn to at times, not always, but at times when it is for the best... to overlook certain racial remarks/actions when it is just used to fuel a fire that can never be put out. Certain people are always going to hate blacks, thats just how it is. There are plenty of people in the world that hate whites... or hispanics... antisemetics, and anti-Americans. Maybe one day we can learn to live with stereotypes and not let this kind of petty *beep* bother us... but trust me, I understand that racism will never go away. It's just sometimes, when we delve into our society and bring up the racism behind every aspect of it... it stirs it up so badly that it just makes things worse. I'm not saying allow racism to happen but when we search for it behind every corner... it just tears us up more and more inside. And you are letting the racist pricks get to ya. Nice chatting with ya, bro, and hope you see my point as well. I definately understand yours.

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[–] tmerc4 17 years ago

UthaSideR:

I absolutely see your point. I would love it if things weren't the way they are, and I think talking about them is a big step towards improvement. IMHO, the best way to eliminate stereotypes, and the whole question of racial and sexual politics,is to shine some light on the problems by talking about them. Look, we may not see eye-to-eye on this subject, but the fact that we can discuss it without calling each other names and getting into a verbal firefight is proof positive that some progress is being made.
Even though we may disagree here, you seem like an intelligent, enlightened person, and those are the kind needed to deal with these problems.
Take care.

Afrocanuck (Tmerc)

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[–] UthaSideR 17 years ago

Nice talking to you too. Take care. I'm certain that things will improve little by little. God bless.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] lilkinney 17 years ago

uh right while race matters i'm glad they didnt make it all about her being black and him white, whats wrong with them being the only ones being passionate about each other, she was taken so if you dont have someone you love that much it kinda happens to be primal once you are in each others arms....been there done that...

I just think you are looking into it to much is all (^_^), Im pretty sure the writer director werent trying to make it a whole racial issue...

ps. I'm a black female who loves dating any race of guys, and i do get pretty tired of seeing IR always being about race b/c that was the last problem I had to deal with when it came to any I've been in...not that race issues dont exist but yeah...

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[–] destiny5786 17 years ago

As a Black woman, I guess i understand where you all are coming from about race and this scene. But, I do think that people do seem to look for racism when it's not necessarily there. I happened to think that this scene was very HOT and I can see why the director would have this scene so explicit. David's character loved Rosie. He lusted after her. At that moment I think he realized that the only part of her was going to be able to have was on a physical level. I think that the 'scene' does a great job at showing how much he wanted her and how frustrated he was at the fact that he couldn't have her all to himself. To show the two of them in a "love scene" wouldn't be an adequate portrayal of the situation. He did love her but he was also agry and frustrated with her. I am a strong believer in the "thin line between love and hate." So basically, I think that this scene was perfect for the two characters (i just wish it was longer!)

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[–] CarefulSheBites 15 years ago

Don't get me wrong me being a black woman and extremely attracted to white men I thought the love scene was hot. BUT... Did anyone wonder why out of all the couples this was the most graphic we actually get to see them together in the bed (especially davids -eion- cute bottom. Do you think it was because to get a reaction because it was a black woman with a white man together. It makes me wonder if Rose would have been played instead by a white womah and they would be another white couple in the film would they have shown the scene in the same way ???

Wow..I thought the same exact thing. They didn't show the love scene with Anne Heche's character, but they let it allll hang out with Kerry's character. It kinda bothered me a bit.

Fck yo' thoughts!!!

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[–] hooper-xxx 15 years ago

It was for the same reason that whitey white Hollywood gave the twat, Halle Berry, an oscar for a mediocre performance in a movie about a black woman being a whore for the cracker who killed her black husband. They can't come right out that overtly express their hatred for black (men in particular) so they resort to crypto-racism.

When Hollywood makes a movie with black male and white female leads, they go to ridiculous lengths to come up with some cockamamie contrivance that would preclude a sexual relationship between them, let alone a graphically depicted one (e.g. Hancock or just about any movie staring Will Smith, Denzel Washington, Jamie Foxx etc...) Usually, they'll crowbar in a white male third-wheel expressly for that purpose.

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