MovieChat Forums > Batman: Dead End (2003) Discussion > Misunderstood? Possibly, Here's Why...

Misunderstood? Possibly, Here's Why...

posted 18 years ago by JYHASH
2 replies | jump to latest

I was recently reading a whole slew of "Aliens" comics, and I just remmebered that I had seen this film some time ago through hearing about it in Wizard magazine. I re-watched it and then came to the boards, and was very depressed at what I read. I think that the film is relatively misunderstood in some respects, but also a bit "bad" at others. I'll explain myself and then the pack of wolves distort my remarks and call me an "idiot".

The film was a pure example of the "Geek Dream Crossover". Here's a guy who has always wanted to see some of his favorite characters battle it out together (Hell that's one of the reasons why AVP was made...albeit poorly), and he finally gets his chance. The interesting thing, that many people commenting on this board don't understand, is that in the "Comic book universe" this entire film has total plausability. I have both Batman VS. Predator Graphic Novels, I also have both Batman Vs. Aliens graphic novels, as well as a slew of othrs featuring that Joker guy (sarcasm folks, don't slay me for it)...So the whole crossover nonsense people refer to is something that could have happened to the Batman. So more or less , Collora was working within the realms of what comic book fans woud consider a cool and fan based plausible film.

I've also heard gripes about him using copyrighted characters. And there is some contention about this, but if there was some kind of major taboo in there somewhere about fan use of characters, Major Copyright holders of cult media would be having a feild day suing every fan fic writer and fan film producer from here to kingdom come. Collora didn't sell his movie. He did't sell tickets. He didn't make one red cent (directly) from this film. It's not an issue. And that leads me to this point...

According to most on this board, he paid through the nose for something that nobody wanted and for a crap film. Meanwhile, at first showing 500 comic fans saw the film gave it a standig ovation and they rewound it and played it again. In cyberspace, there's 500 people who stood up and booed. Why? Because the people who write on these boards are opinionated. I'm opinionated, we're all opinionated, it just so happens the more sane of us just shake our heads at the pointless arguments, and move on with theri lives. Not me though, I'm stupid, remember? What most people have to understnd is that it was a FAN FILM. It was made for those 500 comic fans to stand up and cheer. Mainly becuse they'd just seen 8 minutes of early 90's Dark Horse Comics come to life on a movie screen. It wasn't made so thatcollora could go and have a serious conversation with James Lipton, and was definitely not the thing that's going to rocket him into the next Upcoming Director category.

In the movie industry, you do the safe film, then the art film. And many people say that this was an example of Collora's work as a director. But how many studios do you really think would buy this as a Directing demo reel? I mean besides all the copyright crap that Collora would THEN be sued for inpinging on, it's a movie about 2 comic characters and two relatively cult sci-fi creatures. This is not the SAFE film that one sends out to be considere as a director. You don't go from film school and then make Batman: Dead End to get yourself onto the Universal Lot. I think we should give Collora more credit that that, hell, I'd give rin-tin-tin more credit that that, and he's a dog. Point is a movie which most likely is a labor of love does not automatically equal sales pitch/demo reel. I mean seriously, there are some directors out there that have made a name for themself, but are their student films necessarily any good? Mayb, but then again they could be horrible and very embarassing. In about 5 years time, if Collora gets a job as a high profile director, then he may want to quietly put this behind him. Otherwise, there's gotta be someone out there that directs straight to video movies, right?

Next, there's the whole issue of cost. People say he made this movie for $30K others say $5K...all I know is that my Spiderman Halloween Costume cost me 2 months pay and it doesn't even look all that great. Money is never a sure thing, and you can never know where it all goes. I think the costumes would have probably cost a pretty penny, and wether Collora knows Stan Winston or not, it's STILL gonna cost a pretty penny. Why? Because we live in a capitalistic nation where the economy demands the sale of goods for comparable prices. PLus, even if they weren't rented, they still had to bemade. I read somewhere on here earlier that most were hand made. Bravo, they look great for a fan film. Better than Batman being a guy in store bought tights and a bad halloween mask. But some people fail to realize that the craftsmen in the film had to be paid in one form or another. If not directly with money, then maybe perhaps a catered dinner one of the nights? Or maybe a thnak you gift? Like I said who knows where the money went.

And I also agree with some of the people who say that they'd like to see the naysayers do better with $30K.It's not easy, I can't even balance my checkbook without it going into the red.Point is, the money doesn't matter. Was it your money? Were you paying taxes for this film? Did the IRS specifically Garner your wages for something opn your pay stub that said "New Sandy Collora Film" and now you feel cheated? Did you donate to a jar held by Sandy Collora in disguised as a blind man selling pencils on a street corner? No? Ok, then it's not your money, so don't worry about it. It's been spent, if you need to say "what a shame" and then move on. Personally I would've had one hell of a vacation then faked my death in a plane crash...it'd probablytake more than $30K, but I'd manage.

The last thing that will talk about is something I agree with other people on, and that is that some of the layouts, the editing, and the actors were sub par. I am a theatre actor, so I haven't had a whole lot of Film experience, but I feel I am at leastas qualified as the next armchair critic to say that there were portions o this film that should have...and could have been done, with better actors. I'm all about putting friends on film, god knows I have tons of celluloid sitting in my closet with all of my old high school pals, but I have to say I'd trust them on screen because I know they're good actors. The Batman was adequate, the Joker was awesome looking, but seemed like he was reading off cue cards. And before Sandy comes on here and bashes what I say, like it seems he had been doing awhile before to other trolls and armchair critics, Sandy: I want you to know that it's okay. There are plenty of actors out there that seem great and are nice guys but aren't worth their weight in salt. I mean look at Martin Scorsese--great director, but has the temerity to cast Leo DiCaprio in 2 of his major films. Some how Leo still gets work...all I ever though he was good in was "What's eating gilbert grape" and that's for a whole 'nother reason entirely. My point: It was bad acting. And that adds fuel to the naysayer's fire.

The acting also harmed the pacing, which wa a bit slow at times, seemingly infavor of reeling yet pointless realism.this can be seen in the fights. Stage Combat, which was used extensively, is called stage combat because it IS STAGED COMBAT. And I think that point escaped the fight choreographer. There are times where Batman just looks like another guy, who's fending for his life in a barroom brawl. He may be big, but he doesn't look trained. batman, as according to the comics, is precise, he is lethal, and he knows what he's doing. He doesn't grunt out of rage or anger when punched once, it's almost as if the Batman character devolves after the joker is taken by the Xenomorph. His training dissapears, and all of a sudden we've got just another guy in the middle of a race war with 2 alien species.

And as other people said, scens could have been trimmed(i.e. whay was the first predator so slow in doing...stuff? OKay, yay costumes...we get it now pan left...PAN LEFT!). I'm no editor, and there's a fair amount of you on the board that aren't either, but we all can see when the camera lingers justa bit too long. And for that shame on you Collora, get a better editor next time. But...hey wait, did Collora have a choice? Maybe not. Think about it.

Okay...so...rant's over. If you got this farm, congrats, if not and you decided just to reply to something before reading the whole thing then Fie on you! Fie Fie Fie!

Now throw me to the wolves! :-D

~JYH

[–] johnnycage10 18 years ago

Hello, Jyh.

Of course I won't figuratively throw you to the wolves. This is +supposed+ to be a place for intelligent conversations, and not pointless insults when one doesn't agree with you, as some fans think it is.
You made some very good points here, and ignoring Sandy Collora's past habits of pretending to be someone else, I agree with most of them, except for the acting capability of the actors on BDE. I thought they were better than most people seem to think. But more on that later.

At the end of the day, it's not a mystery that I'm the biggest BDE fan you'll ever meet. But in regards to another point you made, ie its budget, I think most of the $30,000 went to the actors, the cameras, the fake rain, etc, while Collora got those supercool Predator and Xenomorph outfits for free. He +does+ have connections in Hollywood, you know. So I imagine he borrowed those clothes for four days, then returned them without paying anything, when they weren't being used elsewhere. I can't imagine him doing this great film +and+ paying for the outfits all on $30,000.

But I'd like to do a comparison between this and the other, almost as famous, but not quite as liked fanfilm - The Death Of Batman.

In terms of plot, I'll be generous to BDE and say that both stories are the same, as TDOB spells the story out for the audience, and it's a good story indeed (except for Batman's suicide). BDE, on the other hand, brings Batman, the Predators and the Xemomorphs together, and as far as I'm concerned, allows the audience to decide how those three great universes have collided. So at least viewers who have an imagination will enjoy BDE's storyline also.

In terms of fighting choreography, TDOB is decent enough, but BDE is definitely superior there. There's something about the scene where Batman goes for both the Pred's knees with his fists, and then picks up a metal pipe and goes for the Pred's knee, side, and finally head, that is just perfect. Complete adrenaline rush.

In terms of quality of equipment used, and the background, BDE is superior, which obviously isn't a surprise, considering its much larger budget.

In terms of acting, TDOB is the superior one. I personally liked the actors who were Batman and Joker in BDE (loved Batman's facial expression when the Pred first jumps down to stand in front of him - the perfect mixture of fear and aggression), but the actors who play Batman and the Thief in TDOB are definitely better. There's a lot of facial expression to convey emotion here, such as the Thief feeling better when he injects himself, or Batman slumping when he's also injected, or both giving an angry and indignant lectures to each other.

So personally, I think that Collora and Flaherty should pool together their resources and imagination, and the result will probably be something as good as the great Batman Animated Series. The former has access to a budget and the image of who Batman is, while the latter has the ability to tell a complex story and adds depth and unpredictability to his characters. Together, they could beat up Paul Anderson and get the rights to do AvP2, and make it into the great movie it deserves.

[–] xredgarnetx 17 years ago

Nice analysis. I too have been a stage actor and as a veteran and well-known journalist in the home electronics and PC fields made some carefully staged video appearances for companies like Kodak. I also am a former film reviewer. I have watched BDE once or twice and was impressed by the body on the Batmen actor and not much else. But I also recognize the piece for what it is, a loving fan's tribute to some colorful characters. I suspect the harshest criticism comes from young fans and geeks who don't yet have the life experience to put this short into its proper perspective.