MovieChat Forums > The Pacific (2010) Discussion > Why so PC with the Japanese?

Why so PC with the Japanese?

posted 11 years ago by Terrapin2212
63 replies | jump to latest

I never got why despite the fact that it was the Japanese that attacked us at Pearl harbor and brought us into WW2, in a cowardly surprise attack no less, Hollywood is always so sympathetic in their portrayal of them compared to the Nazis, when the Japanese army did similar things and were equally brutal and genocidal. All the Japanese war crimes like the Bataan death march seems overlooked as well as the Japanese war crimes in Asia. I saw the first two episodes of the Pacific and they already tried to humanize the enemy with the doll and they portrayed the American soldiers negatively in my opinion. I don't know why most movies dealing wih the Pacific front aren't as clear cut good vs evil as movies depicting the war in Europe when both fronts should have been depicted similarly. The Japanese were as evil as the Nazis and were a brutal and savage enemy with the kamimazes and suicide charges. Letters from Iwo Jima is another blatant Hollywood attempt at making us sympathize for the enemy.

I did like the general's speech in the beginning about keeping the world from being enslaved but there should have been a larger focus on Pearl Harbor and its affect on the American people and the patriotism it stirred up. It alsso would have been better if the doctor opposed his son going to war because he was an unpatriotic liberal who was against the war despite Pearl Harbor (the way many liberal traitors opposed the Afghanistan war after 9-11) and not because of his history with WW1 just saying. I still have to watch Band of Brothers but I've heard its more patriotic and pro-American than this one and is more clear about the good vs evil fight that WW2 was and it certainly was a fight between good and evil in both the Pacific and the European Western Front (I guess with the Eastern Front in the USSR it was evil vs evil).

[–] mistamajestyk 11 years ago

You can't lump every single Japanese or German soldier into the "evil" category. Certainly, there were men in each military force who committed atrocities or had extreme prejudice towards a particular group of people. But like the U.S. troops, there were also guys that were there because their country told them they had to fight. The propaganda machine that was running on both the Axis and Allied forces also added to a lot of the misconceptions regarding the enemy.

"Where we're going, we won't need eyes to see."

[–] blisteringlogic 9 years ago

"Certainly, there were men in each military force who committed atrocities or had extreme prejudice towards a particular group of people"

You really should study up on what the Japanese military trained these men to do and what they expected of them. They were inhuman barbarians- BY DESIGN. It wasn't a "few rogue soldiers". It was a campaign of racist genocide on the Chinese. The Allied troops who surrendered to the Japanese were considered without honor and less than human by ALL the Japs.

I just learned how to use the "Spoiler" button...

[–] jerryrip54 11 years ago

I don't see the Japanese portrayed at all in a good light in this series. If fact, the series shows them as brutal maniacs who booby-trap women, charge American lines in the middle of the night like crazed lunatics, and hide in holes like rats. The only 2 parts I saw that gave them some humanity were the part with the doll and the part with the cold-blooded killing of that young Japanese kid near the end. And that was just to show how Sledge had once been that gung-ho about killing Japs but was now weary of killing.

[–] overninethousand 11 years ago

I think the kid was supposed to be one of the Okinawan conscripted middle school boys. Like that: http://www.uhpress.hawaii.edu/p-8656-9781937385071.aspx

[–] myturn21 11 years ago

There was also the scene at Alligator Creek where the Marines were using that last Japanese soldier for target practice until Leckie shot him.

The writers did a very good job of portraying the brutality of both sides.

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"ARRÊT! C'est l'empire de la mort!"

[–] blackjackxxx 11 years ago

Letters from Iwo Jima is another blatant Hollywood attempt at making us sympathize for the enemy.

No. That's quite wrong. "Letters" is telling the tale of "Flags" from the Japanese perspective. Both sides of Iwo Jima, per se. I don't think a lack of brutality comes through in any of those or The Pacific. It's there, front and center. The Pacific Theater was very, very brutal. Every bit as brutal as the Eastern Front and, in some respects, more so.

As far as Pearl Harbor and the rush to enlist, etc, that is told in the storyline, I think. The eagerness to enlist by Sledge, Leckie et al. Then, the realities of combat. I think it was done very well, actually a bit overdone in parts, but well done nonetheless.

Push the button, Max

[–] Terrapin2212 11 years ago

But you will NEVER see a movie told from the German perspective, though Nicholas Cage did make a film called Captain Correlli's Mandolin which is told from the Fascist Italian perspective where you are supposed to sympathize with them. There should not be any films depicting any German or Japanese soldiers from WW2 in any positive it will be like a movie today that promotes Islamic terrorism or tells the Afghanistan war and we are supposed to side with al-Qaeda.

[–] nickm2 11 years ago

Have you seen 'Cross of Iron'? Best movie made about 'Landsers in the East' Brave, tight & loyal to each other & best of all...the movie was made by Sam Peckinpah, so it doesn't have any of the whiny guiltridden content that most German movies have RE: "the War"....heck I don't think it even had any German Actors....

[–] mistamajestyk 11 years ago

Watch the film 'Come and See' if you're looking for a movie depicting the horrors of WW2 without any sympathetic messages or uplifting moments. It is extremely bleak and realistic, and shows the type of chaos and carnage wrought on innocent civilians during the Nazi conquest of Europe.
However, I find that your views on demonizing the Germans and Japanese are a bit absurd. To say that there should only be films made showing their soldiers perspectives as evil and sadistic is ridiculous. Not every German soldier was a die-hard Nazi. Not every Japanese soldier stabbed babies.

"Where we're going, we won't need eyes to see."

[–] nickm2 11 years ago

Not sure if you're referring to me or not RE: the demonization of the Japanese & the Germans (cuz I sure don't feel that way--anyway, I have always had problems with the nesting feature); I was pointing to CoI as a 'Western' Movie remotely sympathetic to the average German landser. As for actually watching "Come & See"...maybe one day--I've been told that you'll never had good night's sleep again after seeing that. My parents grew up during 'The Occupation', but fortunately their "little chunk of heaven" was too small to harbor a large garrison or a resistance element...

[–] mistamajestyk 11 years ago

Oh, I didn't mean you, nickm2. lol....I was responding to the OP. (Guess I should have quoted his post)
But you should check out 'Come and See', as well. You're definitely not going to feel good afterwards, but it also has some amazing camera work and excellent acting from the young protagonist. I think Spielberg even paid homage in SPR with some scenes.

"Where we're going, we won't need eyes to see."

[–] jd-276 11 years ago

He's creating his own polemic.

To disagree with him would evoke an accusation of being a "liberal traitor" or something equally irrelevant.

Wars are fought by people of and endless variety of backgrounds who fight for a similarly endless variety of reasons. To assume that we know they were all fanatics is to kid ourselves. To be successful it is necessary to see the fight from your opponent's point of view. Naive assumptions have no value here and it really doesn't matter what we think of them. Remember the old saying that one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

Unless you can walk a mile in your enemy's shoes, you cannot predict his next move with any accuracy. That's why modern defence forces spend so much time and money on intelligence gathering.

Blanket outrage and assumptions of universal evil need to be left at the planning room door. Your enemy is human. He thinks and feels in the same way anyone else does, though his reasoning is different.

The books were written by two men whose exposure to the Japanese did not extend to living in captivity under them. The only Japanese they encountered were those they met - and probably killed - in combat so the matter is irrelevant.

But you can see his logic: the series didn't include something he thinks should be included to make his point so he denounces it as "PC". Never mind the fact that it's based on books by a couple of people who evidently didn't include it for reasons of their own.

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[–] blackjackxxx 11 years ago

Cross of Iron is pretty damn good. I'm just not a Peckinpah fan with the slow mo and all, but a damn good movie.

Push the button, Max

[–] nickm2 11 years ago

I must admit the 'slow mo/multi angle' thing gets strange but damned good is right. I wonder how it would have ended if Sam had more dough?

[–] blackjackxxx 11 years ago

There is very little positive about war. The positive that you see is the camaraderie, if you will, between brothers in arms. You can also see tension between the same. Victory can be every bit as debilitating as defeat. You just don't have to hump backwards when you're done for the day.

While the ideology behind the German and Japanese war machines was despicable, a great many of the individuals went through the same process as any American in combat; the brutal reality of a buddys' grizzly death at arms length. Just as US troops get dissolutioned about fighting for God and Country, the other side does, too. You get some of that in Letters. I think Eastwood had the same mindset as you do and wanted to tell the tale from the "other side".

The Pacific doesn't really dwell on that. It does show a softening attitude toward the Japanese, through Sledge, at the end on Okinawa.

Push the button, Max

[–] jd-276 11 years ago

Very well put.

[–] babel_on_5 11 years ago

You need to see "Stalingrad." It's told from the German POV and many of the Wermacht soldiers are very sympathetic, even likeable.

Btw, your final line is so unintelligible I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Every Jap and Jerry is just a cold blooded savage beast who wants to kill, Kill, KILL!!!???

The sad reality (I'm sure) is that their are millions of Afghanis and Iraqis who feel the same way about our (USA) soldiers who conquered and occupied their country.

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I grieved I had no shirt until I met a woman who had no pants.

[–] crockett_john 11 years ago

There was also a movie called, "The Eagle has Landed," which is fictional, but the protagonists are German. They're trying to assassinate Winston Churchill. When I watch it, I ask myself, "Why am I supposed to root for the Germans who are trying to kill Churchill?" Early in the movie, it's established that one of the main protagonists is not too bad. He takes up for his war-weary troops and even helps a Jewish girl escape from a train. This still doesn't answer why we should want to see Churchill killed.

[–] pgharett-676-553123 9 years ago

which is fictional

It's part fiction and part fact. There were attempts on Churchill's life.

but the protagonists are German

Not all. Liam Devlin is an IRA enforcer who's being paid by the Germans.

I ask myself, "Why am I supposed to root for the Germans who are trying to kill Churchill?"

That movie came out in 1976. I've never heard anyone say that we're supposed to "root for the Germans". What a bizarre take on an excellent movie! I mean, if you watch old gangster movies with Cagney or Bogie, are you supposed to root for them?

This still doesn't answer why we should want to see Churchill killed.

If you know anything about history, you'd know that Churchill outlived Hitler by 20 years, so you know going into the movie, that the assassination attempt would be unsuccessful. But it's still a great action movie. And Jack Higgins(the author of the book) is still going strong at 85 years old.

[–] crockett_john 9 years ago

You think I have a bizarre take on the movie? Why is that bizarre?

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I'm just expressing my opinion.

You may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas.

[–] pgharett-676-553123 9 years ago

You think I have a bizarre take on the movie? Why is that bizarre?

Maybe bizarre isn't the right word. But I was taken aback when I read it. But what about the movie makes you think the filmmakers wanted (or expected) you to "root for the Germans"?

I did read an interview Jack Higgins gave a few years ago, saying the book was "moderately sympathetic to the Germans". But that doesn't mean you have to root for them. I didn't root for them or Liam Devlin. He beat up an a-hole early on in the movie, but he was vicious about it. Plus rooting for Churchill to be kidnapped is pointless, as he was never kidnapped.

[–] crockett_john 9 years ago

Okay. That makes more sense. It's been a while since I've seen it, so I may be mis-remembering some of it.

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I'm just expressing my opinion.

You may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas.

[–] pgharett-676-553123 9 years ago

We're all just giving our opinions. I haven't seen it in a while either.

[–] Terrapin2212 11 years ago

I've now watched more of this series and its disturbing how they portray some of the Americans like Snafu cutting out the teeth of the dead Japanese soldier I'm through the sixth episode and no Japanese war crimes have been depicted yet. The only thing was the poisoning of the water (btw what was that thing was it some poisonous animal they put in there or was it a chemical device?)

I think my favorite movies about the Pacific theater are Pearl Harbor and Windtalkers. If you are talking about WW2 from the civilian perspective I guess you can't beat Schindler's List and The Pianist.

[–] mistamajestyk 11 years ago

"I think my favorite movies about the Pacific theater are Pearl Harbor and Windtalkers."

I'm sorry, but I don't think anyone can take your posts seriously after that sentence. Pearl Harbor and Windtalkers are basically Hollywood action films in a WW2 setting. The modern equivalent of a John Wayne war flick. Full of historical inaccuracies and patriotic bravado. Not to say they don't have their entertaining moments, but they're not a very accurate potrayal of the war.

As far as the teeth pulling goes, it happened. Americans did this. And you apparently missed the scene in an earlier episode where Leckie and the troops came upon the mutilated bodies of several dead G.I.'s.

"Where we're going, we won't need eyes to see."

[–] crockett_john 11 years ago

"Windtalkers" should have been a great film and it would have been if they'd focused on more of the historical events and hadn't made it a crappy action film with the story focusing on whether they're going to kill the Windtalkers or not.

[–] senpaidude 11 years ago

I think the "movie" has left out many of the horrible things US soldiers did as well. Not everything needs to be in a movie. This movie followed a bunch of people, who at least according to this movie, were very civilized and with extremely high morals compared to average soldier in such an environment.

The same goes of course for the Japanese soldiers, but on average I believe that the picture given about Japanese soldiers was very negative in comparison to the picture given about US soldiers, when considering what actually happened.

But as said. It doesn't need to show it all. I think most of the people would definitely not want to see that. Also, the heroic picture the movie painted would not be possible with more realistic approach. I think it was realistic enough and well balanced.

[–] ChicoMaboy 11 years ago

I think my favorite movies about the Pacific theater are Pearl Harbor and Windtalkers.

And I guess the best Vietnam War movie for you is "The Green Berets"?

_____________________________
All I need now is the Can opener!

[–] crockett_john 11 years ago

The animal thing looked like the head of a goat to me.

[–] bjorn5 11 years ago

Letters from Iwo Jima is another blatant Hollywood attempt at making us sympathize for the enemy.

Directed by that liberal commie pinko Clint Eastwood, no less...

It alsso would have been better if the doctor opposed his son going to war because he was an unpatriotic liberal who was against the war despite Pearl Harbor (the way many liberal traitors opposed the Afghanistan war after 9-11) and not because of his history with WW1 just saying.

You sure you aren't just trolling with that stupid comment? Or are you an idiot for real?

[–] simonchinnock 11 years ago

All the Japanese war crimes like the Bataan death march seems overlooked as well as the Japanese war crimes in Asia

A number of reasons:

1)It was decided that no Nuremburg-style trials would be held and that most would be given amnesty; partly because no-one had a read on how the Japanese public would take defeat and occupation and whether any post-war resentment might fester in a similar vein to post-WW1 Germany. Public trials could be a rallying symbol that could put pressure on the occupation. There was also a great deal of focus on events in Europe and whether an amicable post-war settlement could be agreed with the Soviet Union. That had 99% of everyone's attention, peace in Japan revolved around whatever was the easiest option

2)Racist apathy, people simply didn't care, it never struck a chord in the way German atrocities did because the ethnic groups involved had fair representation in America; namely Jews and assorted Slavic minorities.

3)The American government provided sanctuary to Japanese scientists responsible for the worst acts of genocide, Japanese biological weapons research was decades ahead of anyone else and the Americans wanted the technology. It was a technology nations were starting to consider and the Japanese were way ahead with weaponised germs and tactical delivery mechanisms.

[–] R011DaveAAA 11 years ago

It was decided that no Nuremburg-style trials would be held

They must have changed their minds then because a number of senior government and military officals, including former Prime Minister Hideki Tojo were put on trial, found guilty and executed.

people simply didn't care,

That's far from true, particuarly with regards to Japanese treatment of Wstern POW's.

[–] nickm2 11 years ago

let us not forget that some of the occupied countries (China, The Philippines) had their own war crime trials-many of which had death penalties liberally applied.

[–] hell-cat-1 11 years ago

You are a scary twisted person - associating patriotism with war. Is that how simple minded you are? Good versus evil fight? Do you really believe that's what war is about and that one side has to be evil? If you can justify the war on Iraq and Afghanistan then you are seriously mental. It really sounds like you know nothing and are a raging nationalistic war monger.

[–] vojkan087 11 years ago

Contrary to popular belief, WWII propaganda posters didn't represent ,,enemies'' in the most accurate way..It is time you grasp that.

There is no good and bad in war, only bad and worse.

To be honest, while there was an abundance of bad portrayals of Germans and Japanese, demonizing them beyond their actual responsibility...modern cinema lacks, except few cases (always censored by US Army, Navy or whoever is responsible for it), in accurate portrayal of Allied forces.

Russians were more hated in Europe than Germans, because of the things they did to same civilians they were ,,saving''.

US soldiers also had their share of violence and brutality..The stress they sustained could bring the best in them. After all, US threw two A Bombs on two Japanese towns...Casualty rate of those two attacks alone, hours in total, come close, or even tops half of total US casualties in WWII. And New York celebrated that???

So don't bother with good guys story. It's war. It's our interest against theirs. Our politics against theirs. Us and Soviets could as well be Hitlers allies (Soviets actually were), if only few political moves were played a bit differently.

True victims of every war are people.

[–] nickm2 11 years ago

".Casualty rate of those two attacks alone, hours in total, come close, or even tops half of total US casualties in WWII. And New York celebrated that??? "

I think NY was celebrating that the war was FKKING OVER! And now everyone can stop dying & come home....