Identity of pusher? - BIG SPOILERS!! - Kontroll (2003) Discussion

[–] The-Proph 20 years ago

Yeah, those're pretty much my thoughts, although more comprehensive. Although I saw it more as the pusher representing his fear, and belá's daughter as his salvation; she symbolically made him face his fear (in the tunnel) and she physically led him to conquor his fear of the outside.

~pr0ph37~

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[–] kingofsnake-3 20 years ago

Yes but remember there is someone physically pushing people so who is it? Bulcsu or another?

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[–] The-Proph 20 years ago

Good question....I have absolutely /no/ idea. Hopefully be picking up the DVD soon(ish), so I'll get back when I've figured it out (possibly never =P )

~pr0ph37~

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[–] MJR77 19 years ago

It's Bulcse, but he is unaware of this cause he has a split personality so although he happens to be quite a decent sort of guy there is the chance that he could push you in front of a train as soon as look at you. Probably when he thinks he's asleep on the platform. When the "pusher" pushed the running teen in front of the train that was Bulcse who just lost it, for a moment. Great movie though.

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[–] repro_x 19 years ago

OK. I'm Hungarian, I know the truth :)
The "pusher" is played by Gyõzõ Szabó.
He's a mechanic in the subway. Bulcsú meets him in the sceene when he meets Béla during dinner. The pusher looks back over his shoulder while he's cutting/grinding rails.
The pusher is a living, killing psychopat, in the movie of course :)
This is a "behind the screen" spoiler. You can accept it or not :)

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[–] Dworkyll 19 years ago

Well, I think the _real_ personality of the pusher is not important. The key is: what the Pusher MEANS in the story, in Bulcsú's life. And the answer is quite simple: it is Bulcsú's "dark side". His shadow.

Same applies to Szofi as his salvation, however I much prefer to believe in _real_ pretty things, than in dark ones :-)

In comparison to the case of Pulp Fiction, there the case meant nothing, even with the 666 combination lock.

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[–] kangarookuei 14 years ago

Ah okay, that explains it. I was wondering about that scene the entire time after viewing it. The problem with accepting it is that out of the entire movie, they use just a minute or so in a singular and pretty isolated incidence in which the actor doesn't even interact with the man to plant that connection. On the other hand, I thought it was a much stronger argument that the main protagonist was the pusher repressed as depicted when the girl leads him to a tunnel, and he crawls down it with a flare to find the pusher hiding at the end.

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[–] szgergoke 19 years ago

There's an other notation that makes connection between Bulcsú and the Pusher. They wear exactly the same type of coat. If you take a closer look at Bulcsú's coat, you can see a hood on it. Just Bulcsú doesn't wear it. Or he puts it on sometimes? :) Yeah, it's really strange. I also believe, that the Pusher is Bulcsú's fear.

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[–] Monstro-1 19 years ago

The other connection is that after Bootsie gets pushed on the line, the suits want to string Bulcsú up for it. While I can understand that they need a scapegoat, I can't see what good it would do in the long run, as the "pusher" would be sure to strike again, unless of course it is Bulcsú.

Something else that hasnt been pointed out yet is that Bulcsú sleeps in the subway at night... anyone else feeling the tyler durden vibe here?

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[–] writestuff-1 19 years ago

I thought it was the suit with the map of South America on his face that would turn out to be the pusher. He wasn't apparently, but it could have made an interesting script twist.

The suit would know that Belscu knows, and would be out to get him. But as Belscu has this pathological fear of leaving the metro, he would have to face the suit down (literally).

http://the-script.blogspot.com

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[–] neon_halo 19 years ago

i also noticed this parallel between the dark pusher and bulcsu. i actually thought that he IS the pusher, similarly like in fight club. the psychological discovery in the narrow tunnel gave some ideas to latch on to. but still., i was kind of sceptical of the same scenario being repeated so thoroughly, so i figured that the pusher is really another physical character.

anyway, i was pretty amazed after watching this film. the music and the photography, as well as the occasional claustrophobia created a perfect atmosphere, from which it was hard to leave mentally after the movie ending; trouble expressing myself, loss of words and a swirl of emotions - BLOWN AWAY as some would say. truly one of the best movies i have seen in a long-long time. the hungarian independent film has created a perfect bookmark for itself in my mind. let's hope we are in for more of similar efforts in the near future. fantastic!

one thing i didn't quite get though. why was bulcsu so afraid of the "light" and his past? the horrendous demons that plagued his sanity, created the "pusher" inside his mind (for a perfect symbiosis with the physical pusher perhaps?) - what could have possibly driven him so far off the edge?

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[–] picirituci 19 years ago

Maybe you don't remember, when Bulcsú met his ex-boss or co-worker at one of the stations. When the older man asked him what his doing etc, he said something about: When you weak up every morning with the feeling to be the best you start to be afraid. Maybe it's not the correct translation, but I think it is the answer of your question. As I think he had got a good job (or something like that) but couldn't face with the expactations.

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[–] neon_halo 19 years ago

that's a generalization. i want facts. maybe a mental breakdown or burnout, loss of someone close etc. bulcsu said, that he was afraid what happened if he one day would not be best anymore. it would be interesting to know, what exactly.

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[–] tva-3 19 years ago

I agree with the various ideas before.

just to add another one:
I think The Pusher is in every one of the people who die in the film, ie suicide is also an interpretation and in this sense The Pusher is the dark side in all of us.

This matches all the ideas about Bulcsu's similarities to the Pusher....

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[–] damil 19 years ago

OK, i must tell everyone that, i'am the pusher and I'm still pushing very hard...:)
i have a matrix feeling about this Who was the pusher question. U know this after-explaning-everything-into the movie, tell what the hell was in the director's/writer's mind, about this or that in the movie...
like (matrix) Neo was holly christ and the whole story was taken from the bible , of course metaphorically... yeah sure... the same with LOTR. It's just 2 movie, but all film got this type of explanations.
so (only in my opinion) dont want anyone to find the real explanation. I have 10 box for the director/writer and fans have 100 different interpretation for a movie, and that the way it have to be.
But I think the Gyalogkakukk (Bootsie)'s evil twin sister was the pusher, she was big because she was a ex-NDK swimmer :P, and she done all this bad thing 'cos mighty aliens from the outher space take over his brain and wanted the police attention take in the wrong way 'cos of their invasion... but Bulcsú beat the *beep* out of her in the end of the film, so Bulcsú the local avarge-man hero turned into the saviour of our planet!!! Yeah right! That's the real justice :)

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[–] damil 19 years ago

Oh yeah:) Just one thing:That NDK is the hungarian form for DDR The German democratic Republic, (east germany)

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[–] EllenRipley47 14 years ago

I agree with the various ideas before.
just to add another one:
I think The Pusher is in every one of the people who die in the film, ie suicide is also an interpretation and in this sense The Pusher is the dark side in all of us.
This matches all the ideas about Bulcsu's similarities to the Pusher....

I think that's the answer. The pusher is not a physical person. The people weren't pushed, they committed suicide. The pusher is the "demon" that lives in them and pushes them to the edge (figuratively). Just like toward the end when Bulcsu stands close to the edge of the platform, almost wanting to jump. He almost becomes the next victim. Then he doesn't do it. And that's when his own salvation begins and he starts toward the light/outside from his own prison/subway.

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[–] manchesterblue 12 years ago

I think youre very close to the answer but have a look at my theory on page 5 and see what you think.

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[–] damianhammontree 18 years ago

Not only do they wear the same coat and same hoodie, but they have the same mannerisms. Watch the final scene with Bootsie, as the two are facing each other down - Bulscu does the exact same thing with his hands coming out of his pockets that we saw the Pusher do earlier in the film. I saw this as Antal's acknowledgement of the duality - I just knew after seeing that that Bootsie was gettin' pushed. :) It was a great setup/payoff scene. :)
-DH

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[–] trailinghome 14 years ago

Look closer, the hoodies were different in color!

The Pusher, dark blue/black, Bulscu's a reddish.

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[–] dragon-158 17 years ago

>There's an other notation that makes connection between Bulcsú and the Pusher. >They wear exactly the same type of coat.

Same jeans and boots, too, and the same worn patch on the left shoulder of the jacket.

I thought Bulcsu was the pusher the first time I saw it, but I watched very closely the second time. (First time I think I've ever paid to see a movie twice in the theater!) The pusher kills the older guy who rubs his eye *after* Bulcsu has joined his crew in the meeting (and after Moki meets Bela and they look at the wrecked car) but before Moki joins up with the guys on the escalator bank.

So, unless Bulcsu ditches the guys, goes to kill someone, and then comes back with noone the wiser, it couldn't have been he. However, it was obviously meant to look like Bulcsu; same thing with the nightmare scene, I think -- all part of the symbolism.

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[–] jonasera 16 years ago

Bulcsú's hood is not black as the psycho's hood is.

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[–] Decemberender 16 years ago

I'm not positive about this, but I think if you look closely at Bulcsu's hood, it looks like he has a red hood inside of a black one....so he could be the Pusher afterall.

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[–] trailinghome 14 years ago

He's wearing 4 hoodies
black, red, blue and a red one. LOL

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[–] rand-35 19 years ago

The pusher is supposed to be C. - Cripple, who is in the scene where Bulcsu goes railing with the top guy from the other crew. Here's all the signs:

1. In the first scene, the pusher has hand injuries. In the later scene, the cripple has bandages around his hands.
2. The pusher is representative of the devil and Cripple has both horn marks on his upper forehead and no toes on his foot (a sign of a hoof - the devil).
3. Cripple shows dissapointment when Bulcsu saves his rival in railing - he wanted to see him hit the train.
4. Cripple notes to the new guy on Bulscu's crew that he "never misses one of these".
5. Cripple wears the same jacket and sweater (albeit pulled down) as the pusher.
6. Cripple's devil features are compounded by his odd cane, made to represent the devil's "tail".

Had to see the film quite a few times before I caught all of these.

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[–] zakattack-2 19 years ago

thats not a bad theory rand-35. Nimrod said himself that you can clearly identifie the pusher. You evidence is quite nice. But what i don't get is how the pusher is able to walk and even run without a cane if he hasn't got toes on one leg. Just curious...
On the other hand, did anybody ever think about this old frien of bulcsu's being the pusher? I have no evidence whatsoever but I just thought because it's a charakter rarely mentioned.
WHat I also find very interesting is the fact that everytime the pusher pushes someone the lights go out for a split second. But not when he pushes Bootsie.

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[–] hineyg 19 years ago

Agree with the first poster. Also some similarities to Jacob's Ladder. Especially the ending. Comments on that?

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[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] evebay39 19 years ago

Ah - a darker film and out come the Fight Club obsessives. A minor film but they seem to think everyone is influenced by it.

There is at least one push where it clearly seems Bulscu was with the rest of the gang - and we don't know whether he saw him before. Just not seeing him in the cut of the film wouldn't be enough.

I think there are some decent discussions round the motivation for getting him out of the metro - but please - no MORE Fight club allusions?!?

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[–] miles-154 17 years ago

Thank you so much! The Fight Club allusions are very limited in scope and power. While I enjoy the movie please explain in a more detailed fashion than the idea you are referring to in FC to illustrate your points.

I'm am just slightly annoyed by FC fans because it's a pop movie that poppy people can hang on too like they're orginal or cult- hate to sound like a cult film elitist but that's how i feel.

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[–] thither 18 years ago

Thanks for the info. However, just because they are played by different actors doesn't invalidate the theory that the pusher is Bulcsú. After all, if Bulcsú is the pusher, then whenever we (the audience) see the pusher in the film, it's actually just a hallucination. There's no reason that Bulcsú's hallucinatory manifestation of his dark side needs to look exactly the same as he does, is there? Besides which, we never get a clear look at the pusher's face, nor at the mechanic's. And if he's hallucinating the pusher, he could easily be hallucinating the mechanic as well; the mechanic never appears in any other scenes, so nobody else sees him.

I'm not 100% in the Bulcsú = pusher camp, but I really like that the director leaves this question open to interpretation.

About that scene with the mechanic, what's the symbolic significance of him cutting the railroad tracks? And would its meaning change depending on whether Bulcsú is the killer or not?

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[–] tshock 18 years ago

It's a symbol of ... railroad cutting! :)

Seriously, i think that scene is in for only one reason, to cause uncertainity, especially among hungarian viewers, who recognize that the mechanic, and the pusher are both played by Gyözö. But i think it adds uncertainity even if you don't know who that guy is: Bulcsú looks at him suspiciously, the mech. stops, as if he sensed that he's being watched, and peeks back... even more suspicion! :) Then he continues his work, now is he a simple mech. or more? Let the viewer guess.

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[–] macknife30 19 years ago

I like that theory about the Pusher being C. However, I tend to agree with some of the others on here that the identity of the Pusher and whether the Pusher is real or imagined, is not relevant. The important thing is that Pusher is what makes Bulcsu realize that that he has to go " to the top" to get away from the miserable life he is leading. The main reason I liked this movie was that there are so many different theories that can never be proven right or wrong ( I mean it could have even been the new guy Tibor who was the Pusher if ya wanted to make that argument.) I dont get a chance to see many foreign films where I live and this is the first Hungarian film I have seen. I watched it last night and I am going to see it again.

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[–] xrayspexforastrid 18 years ago

My thoughts exactly! I thought the cripple was also the pusher, for almost all of the same reasons. Although, I didn't see the cane as a representation of a "tail."
The symbolism is beautifully ripe throughout the entire film. I don't think it's to anyone's discredit that we have our POV's of the pusher.

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[–] veo 19 years ago

I don't want to antagonize anyone on this list, but i'm amazed that nobody mentioned the fact that The Pusher (seen when he pushes the kid in front of the train) is a white-bearded and probably older guy. Neither Bulcsu, nor the welder in the tunnel didn't wear beard.
Is this an detail that was overlooked or i just didn't get it well?!
Anyway, i think it may help solve the mystery of The Pusher's identity (that is, if Nimrod Antal really wanted the film to have a meaning and The Pusher to make sense... Great movie, but disappointing same old habit of moviemakers to be afraid to make a film that makes sense - probably because they are afraid of the critics... well, that's another issue).

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[–] tshock 19 years ago

When we see the Pusher's face partially, his chin and mouth to be precise, it's after Bootsie has been pushed in front of the train.

If you look at him, you can see that he has a blonde bristle, not a beard really. And BLONDE, not white.

Second... we don't see the welder's face, only a tiny bit of the side of his face, around his right eye. :D Now if i'm correct, beards and bristles don't grow next to a mans eyes :) so you really can't tell the state of his facial hair.

The similarities are evidential FOR HUNGARIAN VIEWERS, WHO KNOW that actor, Gyozo Szabo. Please believe me, voros5 and other hungarians if we say that the Pusher is played by this guy, AND he plays the welder TOO. That's all. You do the math... :D

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[–] veo 19 years ago

Well, that makes sense :)))
I trust you you know better, as you know the actor...
Thank you!
Still, does the bristle have any meaning? I mean the fact that The Pusher/Bulcsu's Doppelganger/Whoever has this bristle or beard... A refernce to....?

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[–] tshock 19 years ago

Lol! :) You're welcome.

I'd hate to destroy illusions and cool concepts, but Gyozo Szabo usually wears a bristle! :D I mean he's a hairy guy, you know the one that shaves in the morning and has a thick bristle by the afternoon. :))

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[–] necronite 19 years ago

that scene where bulcsu finds the pusher in the small tunnel reminds me what Luke Skywalker finds in the cave where "you only bring what you take with you" on Dagobah in tEsB.

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[–] kenkabatoff 19 years ago

Well, we all know the very obvious Heaven/Hell reference in this movie. But I'd say there's a lot more to this movie than that.

These are just my opinions.

The Metro is Hell. Bela's daughter is an angel from Heaven. Because Bulcsu was great at his "job" when he was above ground (heaven), Bela's daughter came down to bring him back. You can definitely see the gentleness of her since she wears a bear costume on the Metro. In the dream where she shows Bulcsu the pusher, she's showing him what caused him to go to hell, and to let go of his "dark side". When he beats the Pusher in railing, he overcomes the power that the pusher had on him. He is ridden of any ties to hell, and can now venture forth up to Heaven.

*When he crawls through the tunnel to eventually find the pusher, he is crawling through his subconcious, and discovers the evil that's inside of him. Which would explain him not knowing who the pusher is, until he is concious of the pusher.

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[–] SandsofSamarkand 19 years ago

I think the pusher is death. He dresses like death. So actually the deaths of the people who are 'pushed' are either suicide, or in the case of Bootsie, he could have just slipped. Bulcsu dreams about him because he fears death. But after he 'kills' death, he is no longer afraid and is able to go out into the world again.

Maybe.

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[–] whenbeautydies 18 years ago

Why even try to identify and over-analyze this character? Cripple is interesting being himself. Bulscu might have been the pusher, but the ambiguity of that situation is what makes the pusher's role so interesting. Sometimes, it's better to leave things like this open ended. Not every film needs to be repeatedly broken down and examined to death.

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[–] EllenRipley47 14 years ago

I think the pusher is death. He dresses like death. So actually the deaths of the people who are 'pushed' are either suicide, or in the case of Bootsie, he could have just slipped. Bulcsu dreams about him because he fears death. But after he 'kills' death, he is no longer afraid and is able to go out into the world again.

I don't think it's death per se, it's more like the dark side, inner demon or depression that lives in people. Otherwise I agree with the rest of your post.

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[–] SolitaryCZ 12 years ago

I read lot of the opinions, but I like yours best... it also sits with the Bulscu's past. As his meeting with old colleague tells us, he did something very important in his previous work... something where he had to be best all day every day, he could be a doctor or somekind of researcher (its actually not important what he did), but probably lives of others depended on him and that probably pushed him over the edge, because he was afraid that he will fail one day.

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[–] danashay79 18 years ago

This is a movie about good vs evil, not who the pusher is.

I felt like I was the only one who noticed that this was all totally symbolic. No one in the movie was leading every day "life" as we know it. It all takes place in the afterlife or some interpretation of it. The heaven/hell comparison is so obvious to me.

Bulcsu is the ticket checker and he is the pusher. The ticket checker is the law enforcer/good guy and the pusher is the murderer/bad guy. He somehow ended up in hell because he was trying too hard to be perfect (isn't vanity a sin?). When he was talking with his old colleague, he was being praised about his great work. Because he was proud, he "fell from grace" and wound up in hell.

remember when Szofie tells her father that he looks like an angel and he responds with "you should have seen me in my prime"? That's because he was an angel at some point (until he couldn't stop the train in time up top... alcholol). Szofie is also an angel wandering around in hell trying to get Bulcsu to come up. Over the course of the movie you get to see more and more of Szofi's face and body (she's in disguise down in hell) until the end when she is dressed as an angel.

Anyways, I could go on and on, but I'm tired and that film was really fun to watch.

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[–] clenchedbrain 18 years ago

Just watched this, and loved it. Totally with Danashay, except I would suggest that the Underground neither heaven nor hell, but purgatory/limbo [just as 99% of Jacob'Ladder is set here]. Both Jacob and Bulcsu need to work out whatever is keeping them from moving on.

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[–] nona_pinkfinger 18 years ago

I'm in the camp that thinks that the pusher was a seperate person from Bulcsu - BUT I appreciate the aspect that b/c the film ends with the pusher being killed and Bulcsu going above ground - that Bulcsu will probably still be blamed for it. He was the main suspect of the boss, his crew even had doubts and the real pusher is dead. So, he knows the truth but is the only one. I appreciate that knowing and not knowing at the same time. My two cents.

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[–] nilsnothing 18 years ago

I have to admit that I didn't see al that symbolic stuff while actually watching the movie - but now that I've read the interpretation of everybody, I've had some thoughts... now, those evidences that C. represents the devil himself, really convinced me. Nevertheless: If we stick to that level of storytelling that has all those biblic sybols (Bulcsu being a lost soul, Szofi his salvation etc), that doesn't mean that he was also the pusher!!! The devil as a figure always has been rather a seducer than an executioner - the actual killing is done by death himself, whose typical features have already been found in the pusher. However, the devil and death are not the same figures, but two seperate things. C. might be seen as the secret guy pulling strings from behind the scenes - and well, maybe it's really not supposed to be clear who the pusher physically is. Personally, I'm in the Bulcsu-is-the-pusher-team, but I guess we really better leave that as open as it is.
(Just one thing: Bulcsu makes it to jump on the platform, the pusher doesn't - and the train just rolls in as usual, no shrieking breaks, no forced stopping. Was anybody run over?)

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[–] Hankenstein 18 years ago

The cripple has no toes, so he can't run as fast as he does in the chase scene, although we DO see him slowing down, which would make since. good theory... i like the thing about the subway being hell, and we never see above ground.

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[–] Macsen 18 years ago

i agree that the movie is based on this "shizophrenia" thing.

the main charakter and the pusher are the same person. bulcsu cant stand his job any longer, he just starts to create an identity that allows him to break out of his life, his job and his surroundings.

the bear, or whatever the girl is puts him out of his misery, shows him his other identity and shows him the ... stairway to heaven in some ways :D

even though i have a possible interpretation for the whole thing, there are so many things i cant interprete... just like the old driver from the metro, or bulcus "old friend".

anyway, great movie.

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[–] gefighter 18 years ago

If details do matter :

The pusher wears black shoes. They look like Doc Martens ... which originally were made for workers...

Bulcsú does wear brown shoes. His hood and pants are also more brownish than black . There is a hole in the right shoulder part of his leather coat. The pushers coat is fine.

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