Oh my God! Smithers is gay!!


I’m a huge Simpsons fan and I don’t remember anyone getting upset about Smithers being gay, in fact his character is highly respected, both by the other characters in the show and the fans who watch it. So how come so many people are getting upset over the fact that Ren & Stimpy are gay? …or at least bi-sexual for Ren. I think these new shows are good. The homosexual attitude doesn’t bother me, just like in The Simpsons.

reply

The Simpsons didn't begin as a children's show. Ren and Stimpy did, and as recently as a few weeks ago was still being shown on a children's network, Nicktoons TV (before The-Network-Formerly-Known-As-TNN acquired the rights to the show). I know that some in this forum have argued that it was never intended as a children's show, but even in the early episodes you have Stinky Wizzleteats' addressing the "boys and girls", Ren answering letters from 8 year olds in Stimpy's fan club, etc. Taking what was originally a children's cartoon and using it to depict homosexual sex is rather perverse.

Another difference may lie in the blatantness. My viewing of the Simpsons has been somewhat limited, but I've never seen anal sex depicted on that show anywhere near as graphically as in Adult Party Cartoon.

On an somewhat unrelated matter: When Ren and Stimpy were on Nicktoons TV, one could watch the classic episodes several times every day. Now that they've moved to The Network Formerly Known as TNN, they're being doled out at the stingy rate of a half hour a week. Is this a fair trade-off for being able to watch the ghastly new episodes (ghastly not so much for containing sexuality as for not containing creativity)?

reply

"...but even in the early episodes you have Stinky Wizzleteats' addressing the 'boys and girls'"

That's like saying that Death to Smoochy was a kids' movie simply because it was about a kids' TV show.

reply

First of all, there were a few implications already in the cartoon that they had some tense between each other, and secondly, what... exactly... is WRONG with being gay?! What's the freakin' deal?!

reply

I am the one who put that "Dear Lord..they're- Gay?!" post up, but now I sort of take it back. I've been watching lately and this show is funny as hell, so I really no longer care if they are gay or not, its still a funny show in my opinion.

reply

Yes, but they never showed Smithers having homosexual sex with another guy.

reply

Ah but they did show him fantasizing about Mr. Burns naked in tons of episodes.

reply

So what? Marge painted Burns naked, does that mean that she wants him? Smithers always had the hots for Mr. Burns. Since the show began. It's funny. But like I said before, they never showed Smithers having gay sex.

reply

as a person who grew up watching ren and stimpy, i was a little shocked that they made ren and stimpy to be homosexuals. yeah it was funny when ren told stimpy that hes the pitcher and stimpy is the catcher, then they jump under the sheets and you assume that they have sex. thats probably why they call it adlut party cartoon, you know with all the sexual innuendo and what not.

Chris Pontius: [Dressed up as Satan] God didn't bless me. He wrote a bunch of fibs about me.

reply

[deleted]

I agree it's very wierd that there homosexuals but John K was just trying to make a point. it's not a kid's show anymore. Even though I miss Classic Ren and Stimpy's there not coming back. And I disagree that the new show has crappy animation. it has good animation.And I've seen every new one so far. My favorite is the new "Firedog's". Ok but c'mon its Ren and Stimpy no matter how stupid.

reply

If Ren and Stimpy have anal sex then I think John K. has taken it too far. Thet's just sick and unfunny.

reply

No-one "made" Ren and Stimpy into homosexuals. That is how they have always been. It amazes me that people can watch the earlier episodes (especially the Spumco ones) and not pick up on it. The only difference is that it was a lot more blatant in "Onward and Upward", something that I agree went a little too far at the end (probably because it's always going to be less funny when it's on the nose rather than a metaphor). But seriously, if you think they only became gay with the new shows, you really need to watch the earlier episodes a little more closely.

reply

Wait wait wait.
Smithers is gay?!

reply

LOL!

"If I wasn't so sure you were a lesbian, I'd say you were coming on to me"

reply

John K. said in a interview way back in 1994 that they WERE gay. (I even have the link to prove this) I don't know what the big deal is. If anything, they can be as wild as they want to be now, now that Nick isn't censoring them--which is great. Have you guys seen the new episode with "Ren's Problem"? LOL!

reply

QUOTE:Have you guys seen the new episode with "Ren's Problem"?
Is that the one where he seeks help from a horse? That one is one of my favourites!

I don't talk to people with an IQ lower than their shoe size So I guess that counts YOU out!

reply

The only problem with the show that I see is Billy West isn't Stimpy anymore. :(
Probably because John K. saw him as a traitor when Nick took his show away from him.

reply

personally, the gay thing doesn't bother me. it's the fact that the show's not funny anymore that caused me to stop watching it. Let's face it. without bob camp the show sucks. sadly, spongebob is funnier than the new ren and stimpy.

oh, and i don't think billy west is considered a traitor by John K. I just think he has good enough taste not to put his name on this poorly done rehash of R&S.

"You wanna talk jive?! I'll talk some jive like you never heard!" -- Royal Tenenbaum

reply

thanks, I like how you're one of the most annoying people I've ever met! Don't bother defending yourself because there is no way I will ever be able to take you seriously!

reply

[deleted]

you tell em, I like the fact that this guy doesn't even deserve credit for that ignorant crap he spewed out!

reply

I always thought that this was John K. Finger to Ren and Stimy. One of his Creation taken from him and turned into a really childish thing. I think he was just going to destroy it. I mean he is crazy.

reply

John didn't view Billy West as a traitor. Billy West was asked to resume his role, but when he understood what the point of the show was going to be, he didn't want any part of it. He found the new material unfunny and degrading to the characters because they were being nasty just because they could instead of doing it for a good joke. After having seen Adult Party Cartoon, I would tend to agree with Billy's sensibilities. The addition was just unnecessary to me.

reply

To clear up the "homosexuality" of Ren and Stimpy:

Remember, Ren & Stimpy is a "situational" cartoon. None of the episodes have anything to do with each other. Ren & Stimpy have been many things: Nature Show hosts, Space Explorers, Fishing Show Hosts, Trailer Trash, Meat Wagon venders, and many more. With every new episode they are playing a different role. In "Onward and Upward", they were playing, so to speak, a homosexual couple trying to move up in life. That was the joke. I found it too funny to be offended. In the next episode, Ren is smoking a joint and talking about some girl's skirt. So they are only gay in some episodes and straight in others. You never really know Ren & Stimpy because they are never the same in any episode except that Stimpy is the retard and Ren is the *beep*...

By the way, a lot of people have been saying that they were gay all the time and that the episodes that John K directed showed "hints" of this. Untrue. Just about all of the episodes that show Ren & Stimpy (yes, Stimpy too) being strait were directed (and a lot written) by John K. The only ones I've seen with homosexual references were directed (and some written) by Bob Camp after John K was fired (ex: The episode were Ren turns old and "dies"). John K probably just wanted to play on that for a few of the new episodes. Either way, its still a funny show and I still enjoy the classics as well...

reply

[deleted]

wow a 3 year forum still in play.

reply

you are wrong. ren and stimpy are not lovers because they fight, you say? Have you ever spent any time with any couple, they fight a whole lot more than best friends do. Most of the games episodes were crap, totally lacking in style, except what they retained from John K. I have only seen one episode of the new series, i live in australia and caught at a john k retrospective as part of the touring brisbane animation festival, i laughed my ass off. Alot more than i remember ever laughing at the orig episodes as a kid. R & S has always been made with an adult sensibility, they now have the opportunity to go with any jokes virtually free from restraints.

Anyway, to make obsolete the rest of my post, R & S has always been about funny pictures first and foremost, not plot. And they still have funny pictures, in spades. The log cutting scene left my cheeks hurting (pun intended).

reply

What a lot of people don't understand is that the first APC episode was written back in the early 90's due to fans wanting an episode with all gross jokes. It was unused due to Spumco's elimination with Nick. So in essence, Onward and Upward was a fan requested episode.

I agree with Krakker about it being a situational cartoon. That was one of the reasons the cartoon is interesting because it is different each time. APC does the same thing.

The homophobes on this thread need to chill out. No one forced you to watch it. Go join the Toon Zone forum with all the other bullsh#t cartoon intelecuals who think they know everything about cartoons and talk about how great Rugrats is, because I'll tell you that I won't be.

reply

Amen

reply

It really worries me that in a country like the United States which doesn't seem to be as progressive as it claims to be, that Ren and Stimpy in some situations being anything other than heterosexuals is a problem.

Extremely worrying...

reply

[deleted]

I agree, they went to far with the gay thing. Back in 1994 I loved the cleverness of their comedy, which didnt always have to rely on raunchy toilet humor. The show back in the day was stupid funny, now today it's just...

stupid.

reply

ctomvelu-
"Gay is best left in the closet. Wonder what cousin Sven and Stimpy were actually doing in the closet in Stimpy's litterbox?"

Playing Circus with turds, right?

reply

Ugh. I'd like to believe that America was the land of tolerance, but you stupid bastards keep tarnishing it. There's no real point in bashing sausage fests, when most of you homophobic ass holes party all night in them.

reply

I think that the old ren and stimpy kicks the crap out of the new one. I like the chilish humor in the old one, but i dont like the whole gay thing. Nowadays everything is gay. Queer Eye for the Straight guy, Will and Grace, "Spongebob," Ellen Degeneres and a lot of other crap. I dont want ren and stimpy to be on this list.

reply

If Ren & Stimpy weren't made gay, then it'd be denying what they actually are. I'd be lying if I said they've been gay since the very first episode. I don't care how being gay is a fad nowadays - it'd make as much sense complaining about Ren & Stimpy being gay as it would complaining about Smithers being gay. They were gay before the fad.

reply

Who really gives a *beep* I mean, they're cartoon characters, it's not like they're having secret homosexual sex behind our backs while we aren't looking. I don't see how so many people can be offended by this new information, they were always brilliantly camp. I think John K is a genius, especially because he could get some many homophobes to love a gay cat and dog without even realising it!
It wouldn't matter to me if they were depicting heterosexual sex, which is a point I don't think has been made. Sex is a part of humanity, so is gay sex, deal with it. John K has simply poked fun at so many people's uneasiness with sexuality by throwing it on a kid's channel, whether or not it was directed at kids.

reply

Surreal as the show may be, I have difficulty coming to terms with homosexual sex resulting in breeding. That's just mad and disturbs the crap out of me. Guess that's the effect they wanted. I'd rather they'd used unfamiliar characters though. That way they wouldn't have upset a whole generation of fans who grew up with the show as children, me included.

reply

evidence: catdog (one day with a woof and a purr a baby was born) now don't tell me you don't find that disturbing .....or MUCH WORSE

drumrolll cow and chicken!

(mamma had a chicken mama had a cow, dad was proud he didn't care how)

NOW THAT'S COMPLETELY SCREWED


and what's with spongebob? I don't remember him being gay.

he once dressed up as a girl to be a mum for a baby clam. 'patrick you can't be the mum...you're not wearing a shirt" apart from that....what makes you think hes gay......


I always dismissed the notion that ren was gay because he likes the ladies...but perhaps hes just bi...or bored after all what woman would want to be with him?

reply

Point? They have BEEN gay. Just because you don't want to believe it doesn't change the fact that it is so.

reply

I don't mind them being gay. But since everyone's talking about how the two have always been gay I think I should say something.
In the John K episodes Ren and Stimpy's relationship were more like they were husband and wife(Stimpy crossdressed in a few episodes if I'm not mistaking),and in Bob Camp's episodes Ren and Stimpy seemed more like Father and Son. I've never been fond of the gross-out humor.John's episodes had the gross humor along with a plot. But seeing as they had more freedom with the adult audience and all I suppose it would only make sense for them to go even more extreme.
I like the older Spumco episodes the best. Spumco's animation was better in my eyes,and back then the humor was funnier. The use of metaphors and letting the veiwer assume what happened was better than just showing what happens and making the result very graphic. I mean the kids eppisodes wouldn't be the same if they showed you what Mr.Horse was doing with the walrus in the Rubber Nipple Salesman ep and why he needed rubber walrus protector.The older episodes were stupid,but it was funny. Now the episodes are stupid and gross. Although the animation has imrpoved I'll give them that. And from what I've seen,the DVd seems to only appeal to animators. They have a lot of stuff of within the show,and extremely long intros for each episode. These are nice,but most people just want to watch the damn episode and they don't want to see extremely long intros about John K explaining the proccess of making an episode and how great Bob Clampett is.
So in short Old eps= Good aniamtion,funny. New eps=Great animation,not funny.
And for the record,I don't care if Ren and Stimpy are gay or not. They're cartoon characters,they can change their sexual identity in any episode the plot calls for. Wether it be one episode they're straight or one episode they're gay.

reply

I can't believe the misguided PC idiocy featured in the latter half of this thread. Assuming that people are homophobic monsters merely for having expressed discomfort with the idea of graphic homosexual sex being featured in a cartoon they grew up with? You know, I had a feeling this might happen, but had hoped some common sense would prevail for a change. Is it not possible that the uneasiness could have more to do more with the shift toward a type of content they weren't expecting to be presented to them, than it does a general disdain for gays? Some people believe there's simply a time and place for things. Ever heard of that?
Do you honestly think that the overly conservative, traditional types (of whom would shun homosexuals) would have been likely to have been fans of the content of the original R & S? Again, maybe it's a 'time and place' thing for them when it comes to something this particularly explicit. And for 'eccentric' as R & S could be, no one can deny that this shift in content was nevertheless a surprise(yes there's the 'Adult' label on it, but 'Adult' doesn't necessarily imply specific things in itself).

You're the same people who always go on and on about how wrong it is to 'judge' others, yet can't even see how incredibly judgmental it is to make assumptions about people you don't know, based solely on their feelings about a particular situation (ones in which nothing specific was spilled out which would blatantly confirm said accusations, that is).

And what the hell do people's opinions on a damned cartoon have to do with America and tolerance issues? Fu**ing Christ, the lengths people will go to to turn everything into some social/philosphical tirade against America. Its predictable and tiring. This is pretty much why 'well-intentioned' liberal types receive such a strong backlash these days.

reply

Jane Doe 95.

You've hit the nail on the head there. Those are my feelings exactly. I tend to stay away from this board as it upsets be, but I do occasionally throw my two pence worth in.

I wouldn't have minded at all if R&S had been as graphic as this from day one. I would probably not have watched it if it was, but it wasn't. It was different and fun and I enjoyed the 1991 series immensely as a child. I realised it was different and was too young to understand why I liked it, but I just did!

Had John K. approached me back then when I was only 13 and said 'Hey cartoon fan! You like these guys! Well in 10 years time when you look fondly back on your favourite characters, I'm going to be making them have gay sex, breed and swear, kill and torture things! Won't that be good to look forward too?' I'd have been a bit upset. Surely folk can understand that?

See what I mean? John K. et al can do whatever they like, doesn't bother me one iota, but Ren & Stimpy should have been kept out of it.

People assume that it's the whole gay thing and that if you don't like this hideous incarnation of a once-fine show then you must automatically be a bible-bashing homophobic bigot who watches rubbish cartoons (which according to a lot of knee-jerk supporters, is any non-Spumco cartoon!). You can't assume stuff like that, because that just makes YOU the bigots.

reply

I grew up watching Ren and Stimpy and even as a four-year-old, I thought they were gay. I always assumed that they were meant to represent an "alternative married couple" and I was fine with that. Yes even at four-years-old I was fine with watching a male dog and a male cat be considered a couple. In fact, I was more disturbed that a dog and a cat were in love then two males. I really don't see the big deal that it used to be a "kid's show." Pleanty of current kids cartoon characters can be considered gay and nobody objects to that. I mean look at Spongebob and Patrick. Fred and Velma from Scooby-Doo can be considered gay by many viewers, yet nobody objects to them. Remember Peanuts? What about Peppermint Patty and Marcy, you can't honestly tell me nothing was going on between them. Do they offend you too? There are plenty more so don't get me started. If you are offended by the fact that cartoon characters are gay, then you shouldn't watch cartoons or at the very least, you should seek help in dealing with your homophobia.

reply

Well, that's what I'm saying: it's not homophobia, it's just that this new show sounds a bit too extreme, that's all.

reply

wellhomosexuality is at an all time high in todays society

so its a good way to get kids used to the idea lol

reply

Having graphically depicted anal (or otherwise) sex in a cartoon popular with children is NOT a wise move.

reply