Question about the end - Stay (2005) Discussion

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

Yes, that part remains unclear to me too.
I mean, is that image sequence actually perceived by Henry (and if it is, how is it possible?) or is it only meant for the audience, hinting that the relationship imagined by Henry could indeed become (at least partly) real in the future?
That relationship would be his last enduring mark in this world, that he both created (through imagination) and set in motion (because he's the reason why they met).

Or maybe I'm reading to much into it.

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[–] rahovistu 14 years ago

I really don't know,believe me.If you find out, please let me know!1Thanks

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[–] morpheus1976 14 years ago

The point is, it is all in Henrys head.
Even if we see Sam e.g. in the Diner, it is Henry imagining him
sitting in the Diner. Why him and Naomi Watts? Because they are
the two right in front of him.
Who knows what the brain goes through in NDEs? This is one interpretation...

This is the basic plot. Still there is symbolism everywhere.
The paintings, his father being able to see, the stairwells (at least
4 times in the movie someone is running down an seemingly endless stairwell)
etc. etc.
Still pondering.....

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[–] bradhower 14 years ago

People often have difficulty understanding this movie, and therefore they don't like the movie.

You must realize that it is a dream state. In dreams our minds conjure up all sorts of characters and often pulls these characters from our subconscious. Our subconscious is impressed upon by significant, but more often random events in waking life.

As one that has studied dreams, I understand where this movie is coming from. Unfortunately, many people who see this movie don't come with this prior knowledge. Our dreams often take reality and twist it in a very different perspective. In Stay, for Henry this new perspective is that of Dr. Sam Foster's. Dreams can even be a way for the mind to solve or makes sense of real life situations. In fact Albert Einstein come up with the theory of relativity over a dream in which he way sledding down a hill at the speed of light.

Henry's mind is taking these characters around him during his final breaths to create a sort of "dying dream". His mind is creating this dream or "flash" if you will in reaction to the events that have befallen him.

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[–] kumarihpx 12 years ago

I think this is the best explanation of the plot and answer to the question starting the thread. Although, I don't view it as a dream but more of a flash of understanding/imagination of Henry's as he lies dying. I saying dying because I don't think it's certain that he dies, or at least that was my perspective.

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[–] scum_manifesto 11 years ago

Well, a possible explanation.

Henry was a young, unsecure student. Sam was a confident, nice, good looking guy.

I think it was all in Henry's head. The fact that Sam is the lead in his dream is because Henry got to admire him, despite having known him just a minute ago.

It is clear that it is Henry's dream. Remember the first shots in the movie. They show a close up on Sam's face, just as Henry would be seeing it. I think that's obvious. Henry converted Sam in the star of his vision and then created this story, to give his death some kind of meaning.

Henry does even propose to Lila, mostly because he doesn't know who's talking to him and he was willing to propose to his girlfriend. But he was somehow Sam at the time, as he was dreaming from his point of view. That is to say, a part of Henry thought it made sense that Sam proposed to Lila.

Maybe that's the flashback we saw, not in Sam's mind but still in Henry's, as one of his last wishes before leaving this world was the happiness for them that he and her girlfriend would not ever have.

Or maybe Sam had just learned something helping Henry, and thought a nice way to honour Henry and his never to be proposal was to try to know the beautiful girl he'd known thanks to the accident.

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[–] BB7827 10 years ago

Great post Bradhower. I've been thinking a lot about the intimacy of death, the flashing back of life lived (or not),and perception. I am also considering a change of career to Hospice work.

"I'm with the Government and I'm here to help you." me, every d@mn day of my life

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[–] tuba-aka-odtu 10 years ago

A good explanation.

Freud I say, almost everything he said about subconscious and dreams were true. Until the last scene with Sam and Lila trying to help him, the things we saw could be very well the production of Henry's subconsious. People need to understand that this is not intentional. Subconscious acts on its own, piling up the things we experienced,the things we don't even know we saw or hear, sorts them out and shows them to us, combining them with different things that may or may not be possible. In that I find the film very succesful.
Also I find the film a very good work to be analyzed by the psychology students. I would have assigned them with the films like this to analyze and interpret :)

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[–] edenney01 10 years ago

Why him and Naomi Watts? Because they are
the two right in front of him.
Who knows what the brain goes through in NDEs? This is one interpretation...

Very old post, but since I only recently saw the movie, I felt compelled to add my thoughts. It's not a hypothetical question, there are many who can answer that, myself included, although I'm sure the experience is different for everyone.

I didn't catch this movie until early 2014, but when I saw it, it really freaked me out for being pretty much EXACTLY like what I experienced. In my case, I was on life support within a couple hours of a horrific skydiving accident, with massive internal injuries and countless broken bones. Coded twice in the first 24 hours (a few minutes once, several minutes another time), and the doctors eventually told my family there was nothing more they could do, and that they'd clean me up so they could say their goodbyes. Obviously they were wrong and kept fighting to save me. I spent about a month and a half in an induced coma, most of that time on the edge of death, and a few more months in the hospital after that.

I only mention that info for the basic backdrop, but the important part is that during that time (can't say exactly when of course), I experienced countless feature-length "experiences", similar to dreams/nightmares except more vivid, but also very surreal. Almost all of these involved people and events that were occurring around me in my room during this period of time, but horribly, horribly twisted by my brain. The experiences went on, and on, and on, for what felt like hours or days for each one, and I must have had at least 20 of them, many of which I can still remember 10 years later. The one common thread that tied virtually all of them together was a constant theme of death or dying on my part, which is certainly nothing that I've ever experienced in any of my actual dreams or nightmares.

Not going to go into any detail here, but I wouldn't wish what I went through on my worst enemy, and I'm not even talking about what I had to go through as far as my injuries were concerned. All I can say is that this movie captured that bizarre, horrible experience to a TEE, and it's a GREAT movie for anybody who still hasn't seen it. It was even better the first time I saw it because I missed the first couple minutes, which IMO pretty much gives away the ending. Since I missed that part, I was a lot more confused about what was happening, but still had it figured out before the twist at the end. Wish Hollywood put out more movies of this caliber which actually stimulate your brain, and far less cookie cutter comic book movies.

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[–] PrivateBozz 9 years ago

edenney01, very interesting, thanks for sharing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I upset you, don't stress
Never forget, that God isn't finished with me yet

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[–] khodam 14 years ago

I don't know it exactly,too. But i think it could be a kind of DEJA VU!!!The events that Sam remembers,while he thinks he has seen them previously.
The real answer for this question is in the Marc Forster's mind and i want to know it. Whether or not i really love STAY.

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[–] migpolli 13 years ago

maybe is something related to parallel universes, or deja vu stuff... meh idk.

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[–] caalexan 13 years ago

Yeah, I tend to think it has to do with multiverses a bit. Like when Henry's girlfriend in the other universe says she felt like she knew him from somewhere before, she was feeling that other universe in which they are dating, and Henry had to kill himself on that day because that was the point where the multiverses were colliding, and he had to coincide with the "real" universe. So when Sam feels connected to Lila in the "real" world it is him feeling their connection from the other reality. (I'm not sure this sounds coherent but hopefully you get what I mean) Every time I watch this movie I feel like I get some sort of epiphany, I still can't figure out why Rottentomatoes rates it 26%, I usually agree with RT, but not on this one.

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[–] Onesimpleguy 13 years ago

According to me before he invites he was just imagining to be with her,cuz in his mind it showed he was first sitting with ring thinking,maybe then he propose her and then spend the rest of the life with her when he hugs..He was just imagining to be her future girlfriend and with that in mind he propose for a coffee.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] LinkinSixEcho 13 years ago

That confused me at first, too.

But then (as I answered in another post) as they were loading Henry into the ambulance, his eyes were open and they didn't cover his face (perhaps signifying he was still alive?)--it was then that he heard Garofalo's character say (off camera, ostensibly to police) that her name was "Elizabeth."

If he were still alive but it catatonic shock, the entire "coffee" exchange could be one last fantasy we got from Henry.

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[–] JJVilzu 13 years ago

There are several points in the movie that do not fit to be Henry´s dreams; The confusion of Sam about the surreal incidents; Confusion of Lila ans so on. And the obvious mixing of characters in several scenes, the characters of Sam and Henry changed roles in several scenes etc.

I think the explanation is quite obvious; we are seeing parallel dreams caused by the accident of several characters involved in the accident mixed up and in no chronological order. This film is a metaphor for the subconscious and conscious feelings caused for several characters by the dramatic event. And also about the concrete consequences of the event even though they are quite a bit harder to find than the dream like feelings crisscrossing the characters' minds which are the main plot of the film.

I think that Sam really shot himself on the bridge later on because his new found dramatized love committed suicide some time after the accident. And the characters are subconsciously worried about each other because of the trauma the accident and the consequences of it caused, this is why all the characters are involved in a dream that here has been (falsely) explained to be only Henry´s dream. Just as someone else have already figured in these boards before me.

And all this makes this film a brilliant one. It is just a bit hard to find all these things. And i've only watched it once this far and i'm sure i'll find a lot more sub plots and layers of the story watching this movie again. And again. Very good movie, comparison to Lynch movies is accurate and the quality of this one is also high, this is only a bit more obvious and the directing and characters are not top notch as in most Lynch movies. Compare Naomi here and in MD, Lynch gets so much better performances out of his actors! But solid 9/10 anyway.

I'm eager to hear about other possible plots and layers found in this movie, please share!

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[–] HollyDeux 12 years ago

I just wanted to leave a general reply...

My theory isn't that this is his "dying dream" as everyone is putting it...

I think it is simply Henry's injured/traumatized brain trying to make sense of the last few minutes of his life. It (his brain that is) is just trying to make some sense of his surroundings and figure out what is going on. It's trying to process all of its information, and make connections in any way it can.

A smaller example of this is:
In "The Truth": He see's a bunch of lights and broken glass.
His injured brain explains it as: It must be hailing outside.

A larger example of this is:
In "The Truth": We see Beth talking to a police officer. She's saying "I saw the whole thing... I didn't move him... I know you're not supposed to move them". (Therefore, I think she was the first one on the scene. The first one with Henry. Then Sam takes over since he is a doctor and can be of more help.
His injured brain explains it as: She was the original person trying to help him. His original psychologist. Then, without warning, Sam is there to step in. Henry goes on to assume he must be in pretty bad shape and that Beth just pawned him off because he was a really difficult cases." (Which in he truth, is exactly what happens)

Anyway. This is just my 2 cents. ;) I found this movie yesterday, and have already watched it 3 times. I found it by accident. (A website recommended it to me because of something else I watched.) I then read the list of actors in it, and proceeded to hit play without even reading a description. I was amazed by this movie. Everything from the plot to the cinematography blew me away and I fell in love with it instantly. It boggles my mind that I've never so much as even heard of it before yesterday.

I look forward to reading more theorys and ideas behind this movie..

PS: There is really only thing I can't quite figure out. I don't have a clue where even the slightest idea for naomi Watt's characters suicide attempt came from. I just don't get the connection. Can someone please share there thoughts on this!!

Thanx for listening! :)
~Deux

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[–] CheadleBroc 12 years ago

Have the writers/director confirmed that this entire movie was Henry's dying dream? The entire film i thought it was Sam's interpretation of what happened and that HE was the one dreaming all this stuff.... even (and especially) at the end when Sam has the flash forward and actually reacts to it... everything that we see throughout the film was based at the car crash, which both Henry and Sam witnessed.... so why does it have to be Henry's dying dream? He's already dead, so it almost makes more sense that it's Sam's living dreams haunted by what happened to Henry...

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[–] March333 12 years ago

If Henry's subconscious is speaking here (and I think you are right) then it will grasp at any straws in the moment of dying: the idea that death is not such an unusual occurrence, despite the invincibility one tends to take for granted when one is alive. Every major character is somehow connected to death: the parents are dead, the dog is dead yet it still bites, Henry is planning to commit suicide himself, Tristan Reveur is equally dead, etc. Makes sense to assume that Lila too would have had her previous close calls with death, like we all have, though we don't want to think about them.
Even Sam himself (whom Henry's subconscious desperately needs to picture "alive" in order to pull him out of his death hole) has several close calls--the one where Henry threatens him with the gun is the most obvious, but there are others. For Lila, his subconscious is whispering... "yes, even this woman who's trying to save me/marry me will die some day... or even attempted to die in the past." Anything that would make the crossing easier.
I know what you mean though, but imagine that Lila had been the happy go lucky girlfriend, with no problems of their own... why would Henry's subconscious concoct such an alternative? He is experiencing the full blown truth that life ain't a fairy tale

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[–] artistathome 12 years ago

A dying mind can communicate ideas and thoughts to others. That is a well known fact.

But frankly I think that the director just put those images in to confuse everyone.
The movie really ended when he said lets go have coffee. And it should have ended there.

However, anyone can see the future with their imagination. That doesn't mean it is going to happen!

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[–] kElevrA7 11 years ago

Nailed it.

Re: the suicidal trait in Naomi Watt's character, I think it had something to do with how he projected some of his own characteristics onto the people in his injured brain.

This is particularly true for Watt's character because we find out at the end that she is a nurse even though in Henry's subconscious she is an art teacher (hence she is somewhat of an extension of himself). A lot of the transitions reiterate this, e.g. having McGregor's face merge into Goslings.

Re: the scars on her arm, it's very brief but in the scene where Henry stubs a cigarette out on his arm, you can see that he has scars on his wrists. There is also a scene where Dr. Sam reads that Henry has a very active imagination etc. so maybe (and this is a bit of a leap) he has a history of mental illness in 'The Truth' as you refer to it.

The two of you killed everything I ever loved. **** you both.

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[–] pciorlandosalestwo 10 years ago

Wow! Very well put! I believe you nailed it!

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[–] omfgitsrohit 13 years ago

Some kind of error in telepathy made Sam experience some of those thoughts too?

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