Religion VS. Sense

You make a lot of sense. Wanting to die is actually a very horrible feeling (a failed attempt at suicide is even worse, IMO) and I laugh at people who are visciously against euthanasia.

"Jai Guru Deva, Om"

Hey people , you have to discuss and analyze the film as a piece of art, you're talking about religions in the wrong place , the fact is this movie based on a true story , and this is what happened already , the man died , and the director made this film , so discussion about belief here is very wrong . Thanks :-)

When life support systems/machines first came out Christians were against them. They said that it was against god to use the machines to keep alive the person when god wanted their soul and they would not need such machines if god wanted them to stay alive.

Now people say god wants the person to stay on life support. Why does god change his mind about things? Since he might change his mind again in regards to suicide.

@theycameburningx
Here's what everyone is hiding and you can find out very easily if u ever end up taking your grandma or grandpa to palliative care,

Palliative docs are allowing and helping a patient to die,just in a veiled way. They have multiple methods at Pallative care clinics-they take u off food or drink and then sedate you,with only a few minutes of heavily pain medicated awake time, they slowly increase you pain meds for "pain" until you stop breathing(over a period of a week or two), they just sedate you most of the time and allow the disease to kill you-this takes a while.

The worst thing about palliative care is that Christians,like the death loving freaks they are,crowd around palliative care clinics. When my grandma was dying,I found this scum Christian lurker preaching about hell. Remember these are the sick puppies like Mother Theresa WHO THINK THERE IS DIGNITY IN DEATH. I think Nietzsche who said that Christianity is a reversal of every value humans find true or something like it. Well, this is the case, these ppl find death unthinkable so they pretend to find dignity in it,cherry picking cases were someone under their care had an abnormally painless deathless VS the majority who don't.

However,there is dignity and even courage,bravery etc in -dying- people forming a sort of üzunderground railroad, against the complacency of the medical system(many,many docs hunderstand palliative care doesn't work well but they make a living from it so..), the unsympathetic families(who have grown up in a commercial culture that ignores developing healthy attitudes' towards loss,instead blasting grief ridden people all of a sudden with support groups,shrinhzks,anti depressants that dont work, again all about $$$), and the Christian political activists and their Politican enablers(again all about money,reigning in Remaining Catholics to donate to save the godless). When society has placed so many obstacles,I think this effort is heroic.
Remember,this problem is relatively new(been around since the med tech got really good at keeping ppl alive around 15 years ago).

Really,one must question the responsible use medical tech-in effect we are spending huge sums of money on people who are dying and would rather die without having the pain protracted for months by medical tech. Not only do they not want it,the converse is happening to young low income children NOT able to get wanted medical help. On the rich side we have forced medical treatment(either b/c a good insurance policy or family money) which has bankrupted families and in the lower class side we have outrageous refusals of care,b/c of penny pinching and not good insurance.

Bottom line: Pallative care doesn't work. Pain medicine doesn't work well,makes many people worse off. Drugs like weed,acid,ketamine,mushrooms,and snail shell venom IF studied by science have the potential to TRANSFORM THE EXPERIENCE OF DEATH. We don't do this maybe b/c the medical system,like religion, makes too much money from death being terrifying,pain ridden,and desperate-with the excuse that it's good death is like this.

When near death experience liars(99.9% of the authors in this subject) write books on death,they always tell readers what they want to hear,which makes the customers of these books strange-they buy it to hear what they already want to imagine death being like.. As for the authors,come one,if you had access 2 ppl in the publishing biz and were in a career ending care wreck wouldn't you take advantage of the situation?Same goes for alt "medicine"- a money maker by telling the masses The same old recycled lie.
We need to examine this much more closely as a society....

To the OP... your biggest mistake is thinking that these religious people would even expose themselves to a film that might make them go against their dogmas... your topic will remain unanswered by the religious bigots.

This post is based on my belief in the Christian faith. Some people may not share this faith, and may even not accept it; it is not my goal to convert anyone, but to show, very precariously, why we believe what we believe. First of all I will say that the existence of God is a -given- for us. The existence of a God who we have not seen with our eyes is a result of the theological virtue of faith, given to us by God Himself. That virtue, faith, allows us to believe things that may be beyond our reason. St. Thomas Aquinas also did his part in trying to demonstrate the existence of God through the visible creation.

There are two reasons why we Christians do not see suicide as something good:

1.- You are killing someone, thus breaking the commandment "do not kill".
2.- Christians believe that the whole Church is the body of Christ. When you wound anyone in the Church, be it yourself or other person, you are wounding Christ himself, and all the others who are also part of that body.

There is also the fact of sharing in the suffering of Christ. He was crucified and suffered for us. Christians are followers of Christ, we are called to imitate him even in his suffering. Suicide is sometimes decided on the basis of avoiding pain and suffering.

Philosophically (poorly of course), it is the duty of a living being to do whatever possible to remain alive. And I heard once that suicide does not eliminate suffering, suicide eliminates the whole person who was suffering. Then, trying to make suffering stop, we eliminate the person we want to help.

Last of all, the Church is seem as a mother and a Teacher. She shows us the way God wants us to go. It is up to the government to enact the laws. The Church, in a free society, will always give Her opinion on any legislation.

I am a Catholic BTW. The peace of Christ be with you.

It seems to me there is a lot of hate on this board, and it is coming from the atheists.

But rather than do a "back-and-forth" on the bigotry quite a few of you have against Christianity, let's stick to the subject of suicide. No cute words.. let's just call it for what it is.

Now to a degree, I DO agree: one should have a choice as to the direction of their own life. This is why we have Last Wills and Testaments, contracts and other various forms of agreements that we create before committing to something that could leave us or others in a precarious situation (which is why we have insurance for quite a few things). In regards to suicide, that is always an option, whether it is a whim or a corner one is forced into due to circumstances beyond their control (one has pancreatic cancer, and your only choices are a painless and quick death or a prolonged and painful one).

The problem is when you get into various other factors:

(1) should one be able to kill themselves simply because they are depressed (such as a teenager or adult of any age)?

(2) even if they should have that option, is it reliant upon them doing it themselves, as opposed to having any outside help?

This is where the problems begin. Doctors take a hippocratic oath to protect life at all costs... this negates their ability to euthanize, abort or perform ANY medical procedure that means KILLING another human being, being that if a doctor can betray his/her oath for those reasons, they can interpret that oath to any degree they want (to the point of euthanizing those who are in comas, regardless of any consent from anyone). You then factor in the possibility of money (private or tax related) being involved, such as the pharmaceuticals used for the procedure and you set yourself up for some major social problems.

Just how deep does the government get involved? Does it in turn become part of the "complex" that will eventually lead to contracts and quotas? Do you make suicide more palatable within the entertainment and education industry? You can call all of it "conspiratorial", but you cannot say we DON'T have a "military-industrial" complex. The fact is, that complex (ie government collusion with tax money) is far bigger than just contracts with the military. In fact, one can say it is the reason for the collapsing of health care, particularly in the US.

But let's step away from any conspiracies or institutional involvement, and get back to the more personal aspects of suicide, assisted or not. One cannot have a CHOICE and then expect others to pay for it or be involved. The moment you involve others you give them the power to have a say and an affect on the direction you want to take.

But let's go with the aspect of CHOICE. I've noticed quite a few of you mentioning about those "crazy Christians" wanting to keep people from deciding what is best for their own lives.. how DARE they stick their noses where they don't belong! Etc., etc. etc.

Does this apply to taxes? Can one choose to not:

(1) sign a W2 form.
(2) pay any taxes on property already owned.
(3) refuse a government draft.
(4) refuse to register their (a) car, (b) house, (c) guns?

To what extent does one's choice go, before the government CAN dictate to what you can do, or MUST do?

To those atheists who are posting in this forum: if people had the choice to commit suicide (on their own without government assistance, but with pills that can be bought from a pharmacist), would you support the choices of others to reject the entirity of the tax code and the funding of the socialist state?

Or is this the part where you say "but that's different"?

Everyone knows what God thinks because everyone experiences God's consciousness at all times in their lives. Religions do not speak for God. No one speaks for God except God. So leave religion out of it.
What is important here is ending suffering and an individual's right to make a choice about ending or enduring their suffering. No one has a right to dictate that for someone else. That is a decisions for that persyn only.(This does not apply to someone who commits suicide because they feel hopeless. That kind of suicide is a permanent response to a temporary and changeable situation.) God, in her Divine wisdom, favors a persyn's right to choose to end their suffering in a situation such as Ramone's.
Most people want the right to choose for themselves whether their lives are prolonged if they were to be dying slowly and suffering a lot or if they were being kept alive by machines and medical intervention when no longer aware of their existence. However, when people are actually in those situations, they fight off choosing death through long and horrible suffering until most want to die in the last couple of weeks. American doctors quietly assist that about 15% of the time when, for instance, someone is suffering horribly with cancer and has no hope of survival and is in the final couple of weeks, and clearly wants to die, doctors will use a morphine thrombus to let the persyn fall asleep and never wake up to save them and their loved ones that final suffering.