Was Ned actually trying to kill Maria at the end? Was it acting? Or did he try and change his mind midstream?
shareI don't know but is scared the hell outta me while I was watching it. I got tingles.
"Ah, Vanitus Vantatum! Which of us is happy in this world? Which of us has his desire? or, having it, is satisfied? -Come children let us shut up the play box for our play is played out."
I don't think so - I think that was the "surprise" he had asked her to come up with. I was so taken by it - I thought he was genuinely killing her!!
shareno it was showing the passion and true pain of Othello. Both Ned and Maria were living a life they both longed for. The stage. They played for truth. not the melodrama of acting. sort of a kin to Shakespear in love's bet. can a play show the true nature of love. Remember when he as teaching her the language and meaning behinde the words she was speaking. Not just walk down stage. pick up pillow. hold it for 2 seconds, and let the lady die.
Show her fear, her portest and his inner rage come out.
it was obivously well done. :)
I also think that this was a great part for Ned because it showed that he could play " a man".
AMM
After they rehearse the death scene and are in the dressing room, Maria gives Ned the pillow and they talk, she leaves and Ned says “It is the cause”. At that moment, I believe that Ned made the decision to kill Maria. However, once onstage he gets the specific feedback he longs for and he relents.
shareWow...that is an interesting take on it. That didn't occur to me but what he did say strikes a cord with me now and I can see where you are coming from. But, ultimately I don't think he wanted to cause her harm...he cared for his muse too much even though he was somewhat emotionally stunted. I think he was evolving and learning to love someone other than himself.
shareWell, actually I agree with aglisson.
Think also about the line he's quoting from Cleopatra: "those that do die of it do seldom or never recover". He is talking about himself: that he probably will never recover from the treacherous "bite" of Maria taking his place on stage. It is interesting that in "Antony and Cleopatra" this line is spoken by the Clown: it's like Ned's become a mere clown now.
And then the unknown-source line: "I blame you for my death". I understood that to mean that he's blaming Maria for his death as an actor: for the fact that he lost his job because of her. As people said somewhere else, Ned wasn't making the distinction between himself as an actor and himself as a person anymore. If acting was taken away from him, that meant death. And he wants revenge!! :)
And then, what aglisson said :)
PS: Does anyone know where the "blame" line comes from? Or does Ned make it up on the spot?
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...in this neighbourhood heroes are scarce, or simply not to be found.
I had the impression that Ned made it up. Didn't Maria ask him where that line is from, and he has no answer? That is when Maria stopped smiling, because I think she realized Ned was talking about himself. I still don't know if he was actually trying to kill her on stage, but I like that I don't know. I really liked that scene. Kept me on the edge of my seat.
S
I actually hadn't even thought it possible that Ned was trying to kill her. Correct me if I'm wrong, but however loopy Ned might have been before that final scene, I don't think he meant to kill her over a stolen pillow. I think when he was looking into the mirror and doing the "It is the cause" thing, he was practising. You know... for the scene? Then, I think they were acting later. Shocking, eh? I don't think he was really plotting to kill her. I think they were both coming into their own as actors... he as a man, she as someone who didn't totally blow at acting because she was being raw and honest instead of imitating Ned. After the scene, she laughs about it, saying, "I thought you were trying to kill me!" Come on. Would the writers really have put that in if he had ACTUALLY been trying to kill her? Isn't that a bit like Sam saying to Frodo at the mouth of Mount Doom, "Dang, Mister Frodo! For a minute there, I thought you were going to KEEP the ring! Haha!"
And if none of that convinces you... Hadn't Ned and Maria just had a really eye-opening experience in practising for the scene? Hadn't he gotten all revved up about the performance and been all excited to play a man? Do you really think he was so excited that he wanted to kill her just to "keep the audience on its toes"? No. She surprised him with her cracked ending (which I thought was quite cool, incidentally) and he wasn't so mad with jealousy that he was going to kill the woman who had just changed his mind about acting.
Now, if only someone could show me how the hell that "I blame you for my death" line fit in with my theory, I'd be right as rain.
"Leave me alone. I'm colouring."
"What're you colouring, Jimmy?"
"Blood. Lots of your blood, all over the floor...D'you have a red marker? The ink's run out. You've bled too much, Thomas. You've made the pen dry up." -AMK
According to your theory (which I agree as well)...the "I blame you for my death" could simply mean his death as a woman, since he was finally forced by her to play a man....his death as a woman was caused by her acting, her need for tutoring, and her encouraging him to be a man.
shareJust saw it on tv, for the first time and love this movie.
I took what he said to mean (and matching his centuries-early natural method style during their rehearsal during which he really got 'into' the role of a betrayed 'man') that he was getting "into character" for his role. AND he wanted to affect her as an actress as well, while being able to express something he really felt.
He blamed Maria for his death as an 'actress' and he needed this energy on stage.
Otello blames Desdemona for his own death as a man (betrayed men tend to feel this way) and he wants to kill her for it but also has conflicts and needs to justify what he's doing. It's for the just cause. She took away his manhood (while Mrs. Hughes took away Ned's womanhood).
I think he had meant to. She did say "you almost killed me" and he responded "I did kill you, you just didn't die." She looked shocked over that and then thought about it and then it seemed she understood and they made up.
share[deleted]
He was NOT trying to really kill her! Don't you remember, when they were in the bed together, she told him "a REAL woman would FIGHT!" That was the surprise - she FOUGHT! so, he had to fight back. Their acting in that scene was awe-inspiring, wasn't it?
shareI think saying "I did kill you, you just didn't die," he's referring to the way he died as Desdemona, very passively with no struggle. Killing someone implies violence and brutality--Maria doesn't "just die" in that scene as Ned did when he played. She fights, she struggles, she will not die easily; which means Ned as Othello has to kill her, rather than the more usual nonviolent ways that scene had usually been played.
And on a more metaphorical level, he could also be referring to having to "kill" both himself and Maria as actors, that is, tearing down and forgetting everything they had both done before and having to start completely new and fresh before they could become truly good actors.
No one spoke,
The host, the guest,
The white chrysanthemums.
Ok, so I rewatched it .... again...too! (I'm addicted!) and, I see your point. He does look, in the mirror, like he is convincing himself... he has said to her that she stole his life. He does have reason to hate her. However, he doesn't hate her - we saw, even in the beginning of the movie, that he loves her in a way - (souls entwined, kiss on the hand, etc.).
Would his despair be deep enough to drive him to kill someone he was so close to? Maybe, if we channel Freud, we could say that the mirror scene was his preparation for his character, that the murder scene, in its realism, was cathartic for him, was real to him in a sense, although he wasn't REALLY trying to kill her, but it was enough to leave him, afterward, in the state of joy he was in at the end? The catharsis helped him through and past his pain?
or, maybe not.
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I have been involved in theatre for most of my life, both as an actress and costume designer, and theatre is most definitely a form of catharsis! What an insightful post by msdreyacook! Many actors, if honest with themselves, will reveal they sought the theatrical life for its cathartic qualities.
The screenplay was based on a play by the same author, and symbolism figures importantly in the play. The RED pillow, Ned's dress taken by Maria, the mirror Ned looks into so intently -- these symbols reveal some of the screenwriter's intentions, particularly that a part of Ned himself must die (which is emphasized in the mirror scene) in order for his fuller self to emerge.
So there is a much deeper level at work here. On the literal level, Ned and Maria are using all their new knowledge about themselves to expose themselves emotionally in the death scene. They are no longer protecting themselves with stilted old-fashioned acting conventions. But symbolically Ned isn't planning to kill Maria at all; he is using the emotion she has awakened in him to "kill" his old self, but that's incredibly risky for him.
He was only trying to make her think that he was killing her so she would react as if she was indeed being killed. He was'nt going to go through with it and actually kill her.
shareI think the lead up to the scene was supposed to make the audience think that he was planning on killing her when in reality, he was just preparing for his scsne. You know how horror movies make you think someone is going to die with the erie music and then nothing happens but then a moment later, after the music has stopped, someone gets murdred? I think it was all just a movie trick. Ned never really planned on killing her even though the lines and his persona WAS supposed to make us think so.
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